Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker

[StillMcfuu]

I have been apart of a lot of discussion about Kelly Marie Tran and how she was pretty much shafted from the RotS and while I didn't like her character from TLJ I do feel it's also a sets a scary precedent for online harassment by having her pretty much cut from RotS.

The answer would have been to write her better, make her learn and be a better character. But instead they caved in to online harassment and just gave her a total of 1 minute 22 seconds of screen time in a 2 and a half hour movie. That wasnt cool.

My girlfriend who actually liked her character was super pissed on how much she wasnt used.

I feel bad for the actress but it has nothing to do with her or the fans. Her specific purpose was to essentially be a Mcguffin in Ep8, and Ep8 concluded with her usefulness as a plot device being completed.

[Fabinas]

1. I think Snoke is not a huge problem. The last time we see Snoke he summons Kylo Ren. Then we do a time skip and Palpatine summons Kylo Ren.
2. Rey found Luke at the end of 7. Next time we see Rey in 9 she is training with Leia. Not really a big problem. She is still training. That's actually a smooth transition.
3. Meh does it really matter if Kylo Ren is second in command or the leader? I mean sure you might wonder a little bit but narratively it doesn't mean much.

1. An abrupt change of the big baddie? How? breaks immersion. except if we find the rolling text exposition fine (i personally don't)
2. True. How did Luke die and how the hell we know Leia CAN actually train Rey? Despite the funny - MaryPoppins-esque depiction in TLJ of Leia being force trained/able i found it integral for Leia's arc. Because of that scene i can accept she can train Rey (and not because of the RotS exposition)
3. I guess i can give you that, since in RotS Kylo seems to act on his own accord and not as FO leader. However, still see 1.

- - - Updated - - -

They realized that no matter what they did they could never be on equal footing with the goodness of the original trilogy, so they moved to systematically destroy everything that made us look back at that trilogy with fondness.
They killed Han, separated Han&Leia, turned Luke into a failure, killed all the new Jedi and Council he was supposed to rebuild, the Empire stronger than ever, Palpatine isn't dead..... okay, NOW our new heroes can take care of business that those losers failed to clear out.

If you can't run as fast as the other runner... trip him. Rian even said so himself in the second movie.

If you can't be equal to the first three movies, kill them.

They failed horribly in doing this in an elegant and purposeful way.

- - - Updated - - -

I feel bad for the actress but it has nothing to do with her or the fans. Her specific purpose was to essentially be a Mcguffin in Ep8, and Ep8 concluded with her usefulness as a plot device being completed.

Not that i disagree, but what was exactly her role as a plot device? What contribution in the trilogy plot was her appearance? It doesn't seem to me she helped Finn advance somehow.

[Malaky]

I feel bad for the actress but it has nothing to do with her or the fans. Her specific purpose was to essentially be a Mcguffin in Ep8, and Ep8 concluded with her usefulness as a plot device being completed.

Her specific purpose was to play the part of an asian overweight character for representation of women, asian and fat people if you ask me.
She didn't have any role in the story that Finn couldn't have carried out himself, not even as a McGuffin.
In fact it could've been interesting to see a side-quest of Finn, alone, trying to save the day while his friends are hours from destruction.

Either way Rose as a character was both useless and strongly disliked, so no surprise she got cut for good. She simply didn't work.

[StillMcfuu]

1. An abrupt change of the big baddie? How? breaks immersion. except if we find the rolling text exposition fine (i personally don't)
2. True. How did Luke die and how the hell we know Leia CAN actually train Rey? Despite the funny - MaryPoppins-esque depiction in TLJ of Leia being force trained/able i found it integral for Leia's arc. Because of that scene i can accept she can train Rey (and not because of the RotS exposition)
3. I guess i can give you that, since in RotS Kylo seems to act on his own accord and not as FO leader. However, still see 1.

- - - Updated - - -



They failed horribly in doing this in an elegant and purposeful way.

- - - Updated - - -



Not that i disagree, but what was exactly her role as a plot device? What contribution in the trilogy plot was her appearance? It doesn't seem to me she helped Finn advance somehow.

It's been a while since I saw TLJ, but she delayed Finns departure which started the Canto sub plot, knew of the "6 minute window" and could shutdown the tracking device, and she was the "narrator" of Canto Bight, basically she gave all the exposition and turned Canto Bight into a 30 minute scene unnecessarily.

[Kokolums]

On such terms, agreed. But i fear here we might have a "heresy" against the Disney canon from many believers of the Lucas era.

I'm going to write down my Star Wars theories on papyrus scrolls in coptic, bind them in leather, secure them in clay jars and carefully bury them in the Mojave desert for archeologists to find in 2000 years.

[Shadowferal]

Why would you think her removal has anything to do with harassment? You gave the real explanation yourself at the start of your post: "I don't like her character". We all didn't.

She didn't get cut because of "online harassment" but because the overwhelming majority of viewers actively and strongly disliked her character. It's the same reason why Jar Jar is barely if at all present in the second and third episode of the prequel trilogy.

I was going to say something similar.
She was the equivalent of Jar Jar Binks.

All about the writer's fault.

[Florida Man]

As is usual for me, I absolutely loved a movie that most of MMO-Champ disliked, lol.

To be honest I was never a fan of Star Wars. The original trilogy put me to sleep, every time. Yet I love all the Star Trek series (not the new movies) and other sci-fi, so go figure.

Episodes 7, 8, and 9 are my favorite in that order. And unlike others, I loved Tran’s character and thought episode 9 totally didn’t do her justice. But I didn’t know anything about the drama the actress faced before this thread. I didn’t know anything about the movies before this thread, I just watched them the day before I went to see 9. Also (and I’ll get major flack for this) I didn’t even know that the actress who played Leia (May she Rest In Peace) had passed away. In that respect, they really did do a wonderful job editing in her clips. I had no idea.

So just coming from a unique “what the hell is Star Wars and who are these people” perspective, this trilogy drew me in and now I’m interested to see the other episodes without falling asleep. ^_^

It made a fan out of me. Oh and I don’t how you guys feel about the Mandalorian, but I think it’s my absolute favorite Star Wars so far.

[eschatological]

On such terms, agreed. But i fear here we might have a "heresy" against the Disney canon from many believers of the Lucas era.

Lucas, in this analogy, is St. Peter, the first Pope. And Disney is a modern, 21st century Pope. It actually kind of holds up as an analogy, as the current Pope is quite a bit more progressive than previous popes and conservative Catholics are trying to discount all the reforms he's doing as "not truly Catholic."

[Nefarious Tea]

Lucas, in this analogy, is St. Peter, the first Pope. And Disney is a modern, 21st century Pope. It actually kind of holds up as an analogy, as the current Pope is quite a bit more progressive than previous popes and conservative Catholics are trying to discount all the reforms he's doing as "not truly Catholic."

Let's keep religion out of this before I get banned again, aye?

[Kokolums]

Lucas, in this analogy, is St. Peter, the first Pope. And Disney is a modern, 21st century Pope. It actually kind of holds up as an analogy, as the current Pope is quite a bit more progressive than previous popes and conservative Catholics are trying to discount all the reforms he's doing as "not truly Catholic."

Progressive is an illusion. Its about control and an infinite cycle. The first Roman Emperor subsumed power for himself. Each successive Emperor secured loyalty from the people by giving away some freebies to the masses. That system kept going for a few hundred years until everything collapsed and some barbaric hordes destroyed Rome. Then they restarted the cycle all over again.

That's just an example. The general theory is:

1. Create a new nation and build within it a ton of inequalities on purpose.
2. Whenever you start to lose control of the people, just undo 1 of those inequalities. Frame as "being progressive" and "progress" or just give away some freebies.
3. When you run out of inequalities to fix, or run out of freebies to give, have a revolution, found a new nation and go back to step 1.

This traps the public on an endless treadmill chasing equality forever while you rule with impunity. This is how the elites control everyone for thousands of years.

Its like wow expansions. Just keep throwing gear at people to keep them happy. Then when it becomes too messy, reset the board and release a new xpac. Flying is a GREAT example. "Oh we promise at some point you will get flying, just keep striving for progress!" "Yay you got flying!" "Oop we had a new xpac, flying is gone". "We promise flying if you keep striving". On and On. You can think of flying as the right of everyone to vote or gay rights or freedom from slavery. Its not a permanent state. Its something that elite give and then take away repeatedly over the course of human history, to make dumb people have the false sense of progress when they get it back.

[Shadowferal]

She’s gorgeous. That’s what works. It’s pretty simple.
Sucks that she got harassed and all that, but Rian violates a cardinal rule of movies - people want to see incredibly attractive actresses.

You're right on both notes.
Rose would have definitely been less hated had she been...her. ("Less hated"...wouldn't have excused the writing, but we, or at least me, would certainly have wanted to see more of her in a better written role.)

[Malaky]

You're right on both notes.
Rose would have definitely been less hated had she been...her. ("Less hated"...wouldn't have excused the writing, but we, or at least me, would certainly have wanted to see more of her in a better written role.)

"her" = ?

What do you mean exactly?

- - - Updated - - -

It’s simply that she’s not “movie star” attractive. Nothing to do with her character, her nationality. There’s a reason movies always cast incredibly attractive people, and her not being that attractive while positioned as a potential love interest for Finn (who doesn’t seem too interested) is not a good story.

To look at a similar plot line, here’s who was cast as Eponine (who’s got an unrequited crush on Marius) in Les Mis:

She’s gorgeous. That’s what works. It’s pretty simple.
Sucks that she got harassed and all that, but Rian violates a cardinal rule of movies - people want to see incredibly attractive actresses.

Agreed, but I also believe it was made for, let's say, "focus group" reasons.

They wanted an asian character to draw in the asian market, which is fine, but then choose one who was "quirky" and "fattie" for representation reasons, and that's where they failed the cardinal rule. So it's a little bit of both if you ask me.

[Shadowferal]

"her" = ?
What do you mean exactly?

I believe her to be Samantha Barks, who was cast as Eponine.

Cast her in the role of Rose, and the character would have been less hated.

[Syegfryed]

Finn was a fucking disappointment for me, i give 2 shits about Rey sue, but i was expecting something more of Finn, i tough he was a trooper who didn't like that life anymore, but end up he was just the cleaner(?) he could, i dunno, learn to use the force, use the lightsaber, i was expecting another Mace hindu, end up him being another version of jar jar

[Fayolynn]

You're right on both notes.
Rose would have definitely been less hated had she been...her. ("Less hated"...wouldn't have excused the writing, but we, or at least me, would certainly have wanted to see more of her in a better written role.)

Rose would have also been alot less hated if her character did anything of importance in the film and if the film itself wasn't a horrible mess from the ground up.

- - - Updated - - -

Finn was a fucking disappointment for me, i give 2 shits about Rey sue, but i was expecting something more of Finn, i tough he was a trooper who didn't like that life anymore, but end up he was just the cleaner(?) he could, i dunno, learn to use the force, use the lightsaber, i was expecting another Mace hindu, end up him being another version of jar jar

He was hinted at as being force sensitive but that plot thread went nowhere. Definitely a wasted character.

[Florena]

Progressive is an illusion. Its about control and an infinite cycle. The first Roman Emperor subsumed power for himself. Each successive Emperor secured loyalty from the people by giving away some freebies to the masses. That system kept going for a few hundred years until everything collapsed and some barbaric hordes destroyed Rome. Then they restarted the cycle all over again.

That's just an example. The general theory is:

1. Create a new nation and build within it a ton of inequalities on purpose.
2. Whenever you start to lose control of the people, just undo 1 of those inequalities. Frame as "being progressive" and "progress" or just give away some freebies.
3. When you run out of inequalities to fix, or run out of freebies to give, have a revolution, found a new nation and go back to step 1.

This traps the public on an endless treadmill chasing equality forever while you rule with impunity. This is how the elites control everyone for thousands of years.

Its like wow expansions. Just keep throwing gear at people to keep them happy. Then when it becomes too messy, reset the board and release a new xpac. Flying is a GREAT example. "Oh we promise at some point you will get flying, just keep striving for progress!" "Yay you got flying!" "Oop we had a new xpac, flying is gone". "We promise flying if you keep striving". On and On. You can think of flying as the right of everyone to vote or gay rights or freedom from slavery. Its not a permanent state. Its something that elite give and then take away repeatedly over the course of human history, to make dumb people have the false sense of progress when they get it back.

And who exactly are these 'elite' and how do they control things so precisely without being uncovered?

[Syegfryed]

He was also hinted at as being force sensitive but that plot thread went nowhere.

exactly, i was rly trying to like the trilogy, but disappointment was the word for it

and i even got Jebaited by the trailers of him using the lightsaber and fighting, pfff

[StillMcfuu]

I believe her to be Samantha Barks, who was cast as Eponine.

Cast her in the role of Rose, and the character would have been less hated.

Kelly Marie Tran is gorgeous ....


Its Rian Johnson that decided to dress her in a trash bag. Which was inexcusable considering the "famous commander Holdo" was dressed like she was going to Prom in the middle of the military operation.

[Endus]

Kelly Marie Tran is gorgeous ....


Its Rian Johnson that decided to dress her in a trash bag. Which was inexcusable considering the "famous commander Holdo" was dressed like she was going to Prom in the middle of the military operation.

Seriously, anyone calling Rose "fat" or "ugly" is just being ridiculous. Kelly Marie Tran is neither. Her first outfit's a fairly nonflattering jumpsuit, but jumpsuits are designed for utility, not flattery. And we're not wasting time calling any of the men in similar uniform "fat".

[Darththeo]

Seems weird that a huge lgbt "supporter" would be unwilling to keep it and tell those people to kick rocks instead of trying to make money. And it is fucking pandering. That has been the only bit off homosexuality in over three films. Completely modular so it be scrubbed out.

I could respect them if it was a primary character and wasn't a last movie asspull shoved into the corner so straight people can tell me to shut up and be happy about something I never asked for. But that would also require a bigger degree of effort and an actual set of balls to not be money chasing cowards.

You make a claim without evidence because you feel it is pandering it must be pandering. You have a long way to go to remotely prove that true.

Disney is a business, most businesses care about 1 thing ... money.