Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker

[Xath]

So, no argument.

I couldn't care less about Disney. This is the same "Disney" that produced Pulp Fiction and stuff. Is all you've got really pointing to the overarching corporate owner, even when they're one of the better-respected in the industry?

Sure seems like you're dead-set on opposing anything Disney produces in Star Wars just because it's Disney, for some reason. There's no other cause for bringing them into this. It's not like Lucasfilm was some flawless producer of magical perfection.

No there is just no point in trying to logically reason with you. Your entire existence on this site as I have observed is to take positions co trary to the majority then troll them until they crack and then can be reported for an infraction. Your "points" are essentially nonsense that do your usual yeab but bs.

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What does no it’s not even mean in this context? Ended made many points and no it’s not is not a response to any of them.

Endus has zero points and it means I'm done trying to reason with someone who basically acts like Brian from family guy and exists to take the opposite position of the masses.

Flaming isn't allowed. Infracted.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Endus has zero points and it means I'm done trying to reason with someone who basically acts like Brian from family guy and exists to take the opposite position of the masses.

So let’s try going with Just one, do you think Luke struggled with the dark side in return when he confronted the emperor and Vader?

[Endus]

No there is just no point in trying to logically reason with you. Your entire existence on this site as I have observed is to take positions co trary to the majority then troll them until they crack and then can be reported for an infraction. Your "points" are essentially nonsense that do your usual yeab but bs.

Seriously? Presenting a detailed breakdown of why things turned out as they did is somehow "trolling" you?

I think you're wrong. I explained exactly how, and in detail. Now you're just being insulting, apparently because you can't think of a counter-argument.

Hell, you even claimed I'm arguing that I will "defend anything Disney wars", when I've clearly and explicitly criticised a bunch of stuff in the most recent two films. I disagree with your criticisms, not any criticism.

[PACOX]

You image applies much better to why you defend a terrible sequel trilogy that essentially undid all the character progression of the original.

Its like you completely ignored the context of his post a d became what he was mocking.

[tromage2]

If you're going to claim TLJ is ruining Star Wars, it's gotta be worse than The Phantom Menace, by a lot. It demands that comparison.

It is far far worse.
It is breaking key plots in the whole franchise.

Like: why dont they use spaceships with robots in lightspeed as weapons.
Every space battle after TLJ will be ruined for me because of this.

Force ghosts can use lightning bolts to set a tree on fire.
So Yoda and Obi-one where lazy bumps not helping out in the past.

Yoda acting like fake Yoda that wanted to test Luke motives in episode 5.
So why does he act like a drunk moron again in TLJ... this is even worse then Jar Jar.

Bombs can fall down in space, you can just open doors in space (shield always had visuel effect in star wars like at hanger doors ect).

Can keep going like this but what ever atleast episode 1 did not break the franchise, TLJ did!

[Endus]

It is far far worse.
It is breaking key plots in the whole franchise.

Like: why dont they use spaceships with robots in lightspeed as weapons.
Every space battle after TLJ will be ruined for me because of this.

1> Doesn't break any "key plot"
2> The EU had "interdictor" cruisers for decades; the first then-canon mention in a novel from 1991. They're mentioned in Rebels, so they're still canon. The pursuit fleet didn't have any, because Hux is an overconfident jackhole who wanted to show off his tracking device.

Force ghosts can use lightning bolts to set a tree on fire.
So Yoda and Obi-one where lazy bumps not helping out in the past.

Or they didn't have any need to, in the past. Again, not any breaking of any "key plots".

Yoda acting like fake Yoda that wanted to test Luke motives in episode 5.
So why does he act like a drunk moron again in TLJ... this is even worse then Jar Jar.

Yoda being Yoda isn't breaking anything.

Bombs can fall down in space, you can just open doors in space (shield always had visuel effect in star wars like at hanger doors ect).

They never describe how the bombs "fall". If nothing else, the ship has artificial gravity, which would create an initial speed vector that they'd continue along, and that's without considering any of the myriad possible means of further targeting/acceleration they could be using.

And no; shields did not always have a "visual effect". Most of the time, in Star Wars, they don't. For instance, the Death Star hangar bays;


No visible "field" in that opening, and that's open space beyond it, and tons of people standing around on this side of it.

[Shadowferal]

It is far far worse.

After giving the first movie (A New Hope) a re-watch last night I just had to agree with this first sentence.
There was just this whole sense of "epic" brewing in that movie that is so utterly lacking.
"Epic" was replaced with "spectacle." They tried to capture that feeling with TFA...and it just failed. (But it seems "spectacle" is confused with "spectacular" and that it certainly wasn't.)

[Kaleredar]

Critics and Revenue mean nothing when the movie goers didn't like it. I do not know a single person, among my group of friends and family, that liked it. Audience score on rotten tomatoes is at 44% out of 220,000 ratings.

...so anecdotal evidence and a score that's easily skewed by anonymous nobodies who think they have something to prove online?

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It is far far worse.
It is breaking key plots in the whole franchise.

Like: why dont they use spaceships with robots in lightspeed as weapons.
Every space battle after TLJ will be ruined for me because of this.

Force ghosts can use lightning bolts to set a tree on fire.
So Yoda and Obi-one where lazy bumps not helping out in the past.

Yoda acting like fake Yoda that wanted to test Luke motives in episode 5.
So why does he act like a drunk moron again in TLJ... this is even worse then Jar Jar.

Bombs can fall down in space, you can just open doors in space (shield always had visuel effect in star wars like at hanger doors ect).

Can keep going like this but what ever atleast episode 1 did not break the franchise, TLJ did!

You're arguing about science in a movie about space wizards.

[Sorshen]

...so anecdotal evidence and a score that's easily skewed by trolls who think they have something to prove online?

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You're arguing about science in a movie about space wizards.

Throwing the "but it has magic and shiet" is also not an argument. Bombs and lightspeed kamikaze aren't magic. They're just breaking consistency and previously defined in-universe limits for the sake of... something.

[Kaleredar]

Throwing the "but it has magic and shiet" is also not an argument. Bombs and lightspeed kamikaze aren't magic. They're just breaking consistency and previously defined in-universe limits.

The empire employed bombers in Episode 5. Did those bother you then? And as has been discussed... numerous times, the artificial gravity on the bomber ships carried the bombs downwards. Upon exiting into space they continued upon the same trajectory, as there was no further gravity to change their direction. Which was down.

It's really not hard, even if you pick such an idiotic thing to care about.

Kamikaze ships would be insanely expensive, as established require a lot of fuel, can be predicted and evaded (seeing as ships can establish when other ships are preparing to jump to lightspeed,) and more importantly...

What the fuck did you think would happen if you ran a vessel into another vessel at light speed? Sunshine and butterflies?


You didn't like the movie, fine. But pretending Star wars has some sacrosanct interior scientific logic is nonsense, and always has been. You're grasping at pointless straws for criticism.

[Shadowferal]

Pretty sure someone mentioned earlier about "Interdictors." Basically they create gravity wells that prevent ships from making the jump to lightspeed.

[Sorshen]

Pretty sure someone mentioned earlier about "Interdictors." Basically they create gravity wells that prevent ships from making the jump to lightspeed.

Interdictor star destroyers are Legends material. Not sure about current canon status, they might've appeared in Clone Wars or Rebels.

What the fuck did you think would happen if you ran a vessel into another vessel at light speed? Sunshine and butterflies?

By common sense it invalidates the Death Stars and other Empire/First Order super-weapons, what is there to think about?
The effect was kinda' reduced in the film when you think about the energies at play in these scenarios.

[Endus]

Interdictor star destroyers are Legends material. Not sure about current canon status, they might've appeared in Clone Wars or Rebels.

They appear in Rebels. I checked Wookiepedia for references earlier, before I mentioned them, just to be sure. So Interdictors are canon technology for the films. The First Order fleet just either didn't have them or didn't have them active, because they were fucking with the Resistance and letting them jump and then chasing them, which should have been impossible.

As with the OT, the bad guy's overconfidence and fucking around gets them slapped.

By common sense it invalidates the Death Stars and other Empire/First Order super-weapons, what is there to think about?
The effect was kinda' reduced in the film when you think about the energies at play in these scenarios.

Not really; the damage we saw in TLJ was nowhere even close to the damage done by a Death Star, let alone the Starkiller base. The latter of which shoots through hyperspace, and thus can target systems across the galaxy.

Holdo's final assault didn't even destroy the Supremacy when it hit it. Caused pretty serious damage, but the Supremacy survived that hit.

[qwerty123456]

Yes none of that happened.

Han and leia not having the best marriage ever doesn’t make them strangers.

Well Leia did go hug Rey ignored Chewbacca. Either that was Alzheimers or spite.

[Sorshen]

Well Leia did go hug Rey ignored Chewbacca. Either that was Alzheimers or spite.

Well, poor Chewie is a sidekick... he can't catch a break.

[Kaleredar]

By common sense it invalidates the Death Stars and other Empire/First Order super-weapons, what is there to think about?
The effect was kinda' reduced in the film when you think about the energies at play in these scenarios.

...No. No one said ramming a ship into a planet would blow it up (which is the Death Star's purpose.) The hyperspeed jump didn't even destroy Snoke's flagship.

As for the "energies at play..." again... it's fantasy. There's sound in space.


Though I'm glad to see you acceded to silly "bombs don't drop in space" point.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Well Leia did go hug Rey ignored Chewbacca. Either that was Alzheimers or spite.

he probably smelt like wet dog from all the snow.

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Throwing the "but it has magic and shiet" is also not an argument. Bombs and lightspeed kamikaze aren't magic. They're just breaking consistency and previously defined in-universe limits for the sake of... something.

there were no in-unvirse limits to break as the EU already set up hyper space ramming and even hyperspace planet bombs.

[Sorshen]

...No. No one said ramming a ship into a planet would blow it up (which is the Death Star's purpose.) The hyperspeed jump didn't even destroy Snoke's flagship.

As for the "energies at play..." again... it's fantasy. There's sound in space.


Though I'm glad to see you acceded to silly "bombs don't drop in space" point.

T'was just a scratch! The Supremacy and the Resurgent star destroyers looked just fine after the maneuver!
I guess we'll just have to ignore this can of worms, a 3.4km cruiser going thru the DS-1's main reactor (they had the fucking plans) would've been a really bad plan.

I've made the momentum argument in front of my friends when TJL came out, doesn't make it less silly from a tactical standpoint tho.

he probably smelt like wet dog from all the snow.

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there were no in-unvirse limits to break as the EU already set up hyper space ramming and even hyperspace planet bombs.

Suspension of disbelief comes with an agreement with the audience on what the limits are, all decent fantasy settings have established in-universe rules.
I dare say we can't invoke the EU as an argument for something that happens on-screen, it was dismissed because it was tainted with cans of worms and (imho) arguably low quality material that only saw the light of day because it was bringing in loads of $$$ via licensing.

[Wangming]

You're arguing about science in a movie about space wizards.

So what? Even space wizardry needs rules. What is possible and what is not? Hell in Harry Potter you have fucking magic. Yet there are very specific rules. Like you can not conjure food out of thin air.

Sure, a lot of beloved movies contradict their own rules (Back to the Future, Matrix, Terminator 2) but that doesn't mean TLJ gets a pass. How do Force Ghosts work? Ho does gravity work? What are the Resistance and the First Order capable of in terms of technology? Where do they get that technology? These need to be clearly established and then followed.

[Elkfingers]

It is far far worse.
It is breaking key plots in the whole franchise.

Like: why dont they use spaceships with robots in lightspeed as weapons.
Every space battle after TLJ will be ruined for me because of this.

Force ghosts can use lightning bolts to set a tree on fire.
So Yoda and Obi-one where lazy bumps not helping out in the past.

Yoda acting like fake Yoda that wanted to test Luke motives in episode 5.
So why does he act like a drunk moron again in TLJ... this is even worse then Jar Jar.

Bombs can fall down in space, you can just open doors in space (shield always had visuel effect in star wars like at hanger doors ect).

Can keep going like this but what ever atleast episode 1 did not break the franchise, TLJ did!

Ok so I don't like either film, and having a sci-fi universe which isn't internally consistent is a problem...but none of this is the real problem.

The real problem is that both TLJ and Phantom Menace lack stakes, have bad pacing, poor character development and dialogue, and all of this leads to the vast majority of the action sequences feeling dull.

Trying to cater to fans rather than just make a good movie is why both are bad. TFA was almost a complete rehash, which it was criticised for by fanboys, but it was still a good movie - JJ Abrams made a specific choice to set the tone for the rest of the trilogy and he did so very competently. Rian Johnson had a blank canvas laid out for him, and he subverted everyone's expectations in that he made a real fucking stinker.

JJ Abrams now has a real task in front of him to salvage anything from this huge mess, but the challenges involved have absolutely fuck all to do with 'plot holes', which are usually just used as a way for people who don't really get how to analyse a movie to pretend like they're a critic all of a sudden.

Not trying to sound like a snob (also not trying too hard not to), but if you don't really understand critical analaysis of film from a basic structural perspective, chances are the reasons why you think a movie is good or bad aren't the actual reasons why that movie is good or bad. Even with all of the bullshit in The Phantom Menace, if a few things were tweaked and edited down you could almost completely salvage it. There's a good film in there somewhere, it was just very poorly done. Point being, if the basic elements needed to make the movie decent are in place, you don't notice the other shit as much or at all. The original cut of Episode IV had an actual werewolf in the cantina - that's just one example of really dumb shit in that movie, but also nobody cares because the movie itself doesn't fundamentally suck from a basic filmmaking standpoint. It just matters less.