Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker

[Malaky]

Oh, and lifting rocks or pulling stuff is above their means?

Depends. Lifting or pushing away small stuff is the kind of thing a force sensitive can potentially do, raising massive heaps of boulders into the air requires much more concentration, training, discipline and practice, usually at the hands of a master or teacher of sorts.

And don't get me started on manipulating the mind of other humans or defeating years-in-training Jedi/Sith apprentices hours after getting your first lightsaber.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Agreed. The problem is that what the movie shows is not what you're pretending it to be.
I'm not counteracting what the movie says, just your fanfiction of what Yoda's speech is.

edit: meh, too long

My “fanfic” is what actually happens in the movie or as every one else would call it the events that actually happened in the canon.

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Depends. Lifting or pushing away small stuff is the kind of thing a force sensitive can potentially do, raising massive heaps of boulders into the air requires much more concentration, training, discipline and practice, usually at the hands of a master or teacher of sorts.

This is you just making up your own fanfic which the canon refuted in tons of places.

[Frontenac]

Depends. Lifting or pushing away small stuff is the kind of thing a force sensitive can potentially do, raising massive heaps of boulders into the air requires much more concentration, training, discipline and practice, usually at the hands of a master or teacher of sorts.

And don't get me started on manipulating the mind of other humans or defeating years-in-training Jedi/Sith apprentices hours after getting your first lightsaber.

Size matters not.

[bmjclark]

Do you know what baby yoda didn't do? Force persuade a storm trooper, or defeat a highly trained dark side apprentice who's also powerful in the force and has years of lightsaber training.

In total fairness, Finn of all people got a hit in on Kylo Ren. I think it really says more about how much Kylo sucks than how powerful Rey is that she did well against him.

[Sunseeker]

Because it's Star Wars!

Seriously though, this is why I always have to remind myself that it's not actually the 40k universe (where the technological stagnation and regression of the Imperium of Man is part of the story) whenever I read or watch a youtube video about the technological advances of the Star Wars universe...

Right!? I mean there are occasional excuses for it, but then we get more backfill (bullshit stories made up to fill holes that didn't need filling) that there were even more advanced empires than now in the past. I mean, fucking "Ancient Aliens" much Star Wars?

Now, fundamentally the flavor of Star Wars being this sort of universe where everything progresses to a recognizable point and then some great cataclysm or war or decadent decay causes it all to collapse into oblivion is a GREAT storytelling element. But when you have something like the Galactic Republic standing as we see it in the Prequels for literally thousands upon thousands of years (since the last great Sith War I think, which is like 3000 years). And before that the Old Republic which stood as we see it in the books/comics/games for like, 10000 years (since the Hyperspace Wars if I recall) it just gets silly! I mean, that's 10000 years of an advanced technological society effectively holding still. Or even 3000 years of a society holding still. In the last 3000 years IRL humanity has gone from bronze to computers!

At least Mass Effect established some nigh-all-powerful cosmic force as the reason we see this repeating cycle. Star Wars at least establishes that there seems to be a cycle of sorts, mostly revolving around the balance of power and population between the Jedi and the Sith but ya know, it'd be nice if it was a little more consistent.

But hey! Consistency isn't what I watch Star Wars for, which is why I don't really give two fucks if Rey is or isn't inconsistent with her predecessors (Anakin and Luke respectively). Though I personally think she is (but differently) I don't really care. Star Wars is a soap, I watch it for the lulz and the drama, you could re-cast it with everyone from All My Circuits and it'd play about the same.

[s_bushido]

I mean, that's 10000 years of an advanced technological society effectively holding still. Or even 3000 years of a society holding still. In the last 3000 years IRL humanity has gone from bronze to computers!

I think writers just don't grasp how long even a thousand years is. You see the same thing in fantasy settings when they talk about elves who have been alive (and in essentially the exact same society they are now) for 10,000 years.

[Malaky]

Size matters not.

Size matters not. Right. Good job, sport.

That's the theory.

In practice it's not that easy, hence why you still need training, focus, time, discipline and practice.
Otherwise every Jedi would be Yoda and every Sith would be Palpatine.

[Jastall]

But it's really not, Luke was horrible at nearly everything in ANH. He needed to be rescued every step of the way. Even the one thing he was "good" at he ended up not actually being very good at. In ESB he has become a decent military leader 3 years after ANH. But he still needs to be rescued by others and his overconfidence in his abilities almost gets him killed. It isn't until RotJ, the final movie of the trilogy that Luke comes off as any sort of badass.

Anakin is OP from the get go but that is tempered by the fact that he is emotionally unstable and falls to the darkside.

Rey is just good at everything right off the bat and just gets better as the films go on. With no significant shortcomings.

Luke opens up his first movie by doing what a bunch of experienced pilots could not and single-handedly wins a decisive battle. He becomes a Jedi master with less training than the Padawan in the Fallen Empire game has. Hell in between Empire and Return he goes from being defeated by a Sith Lord to beating the snot out of him with no training or notable on-screen change in capabilities.

Yeah, maybe Rey is even more OP than him, but the difference is one of degrees, nothing more. In essence they are both basically the same character, the fresh-faced, naive protagonist that is competent because the plot needs them to be.

[Malaky]

My “fanfic” is what actually happens in the movie or as every one else would call it the events that actually happened in the canon.

What happens in the movie is Yoda saying some encouragement speeches about the Force.

Your fanfic is assuming your interpretation of those words is Truth and everyone else's is a fanfic. Wrong.

This is you just making up your own fanfic which the canon refuted in tons of places.

Quote them, then. You keep barking but never biting.
Quote me where in the original trilogy my interpretation is "refuted".

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He becomes a Jedi master with less training than the Padawan in the Fallen Empire game has. Hell in between Empire and Return he goes from being defeated by a Sith Lord to beating the snot out of him with no training or notable on-screen change in capabilities.

Wait what? When the hell did Luke become a "Jedi master" before the very end of the trilogy? And even there it was more about his mindset than actual Force power.
And Luke doesn't "beat the snot out of" Vader, he was going easy on him because their purpose was to convert, not kill, Luke.
Also Luke attacks Vader with the Dark Side there, gaining momentum while the guy's holding back. It's the very reason why Palpatine is so happy.

Yeah, maybe Rey is even more OP than him, but the difference is one of degrees, nothing more. In essence they are both basically the same character, the fresh-faced, naive protagonist that is competent because the plot needs them to be.

Fuck freaking no.
"In essence" they're at complete opposites.
One suffers and grows from it, fails and stands back up. The other just... wins. Every time.

[Sunseeker]

I think writers just don't grasp how long even a thousand years is. You see the same thing in fantasy settings when they talk about elves who have been alive (and in essentially the exact same society they are now) for 10,000 years.

Absolutely. And it's weirder that the elves (or dwarves who are often long lived too) aren't out conquering the world. Again there are excuses like "well they have low birth rates" or "elves just don't do that". Which for all people complain about JJ Abrams not understanding how big space is, it's clear noone understands how long time is. So what difference does it make? (in b4 JJ Abrams reboots LOTR).

It's one thing to have multiple empires and transitioning societies from an aging, dying one, to a new, younger one brought up by a new culture, but Star Wars just has the Galactic Empire/Federation. Sure, in the EU there's the Hutts, the Sith (from time to time), the Chiss and way back when the Infinite Empire, but it's a FUCKING GALAXY! You're telling me there's fewer empires than nations in modern Europe?

[Lorgar Aurelian]

What happens in the movie is Yoda saying some encouragement speeches about the Force.

Your fanfic is assuming your interpretation of those words is Truth and everyone else's is a fanfic. Wrong.



Quote them, then. You keep barking but never biting.
Quote me where in the original trilogy my interpretation is "refuted".

Yoda has already been linked in the thread you going on about "what he really meant was" is fanfic you made up. I've also already linked you examples of advanced force use with no training in the old and new canon and you just say they don't count which is more fanfic.

I've been biting you just don't seem to notice that your legs are gone as you have nothing to stand on.

[Th3Scourge]

I just realised something. Disney Star Wars feels like a listening to a tribute band. They kinda look similar, but they don't sound the same, doesn't feel right and you know you should just avoid it. Kinda like dancing with your sister

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Size matters not. Right. Good job, sport.

That's the theory.

In practice it's not that easy, hence why you still need training, focus, time, discipline and practice.
Otherwise every Jedi would be Yoda and every Sith would be Palpatine.

It's almost like not every jedi has the same amount of power in the force, its almost like anakin luke and rey were all more powerful then yoda and palp with far far less training.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I don't know about them being more powerful than Yoda, but they're more powerful than the average padawan.

Anakin was the most powerful force user in the glaxey at the time of the clone wars luke seems to be in the same wheel house and rey/kylo are stronger.

[BeepBoo]

The entire point of that scene is that Yoda is telling Luke that size doesn't matter, and he can lift the X-wing just as easily as the tiny pebbles.

Literally the whole point.

You realize that, just because someone knows something from a theoretical standpoint, doesn't mean they can apply it actively? That's the whole reason as to why luke failed and why most people struggle to master the force. Clearly, your own mentality has an influence of some kind. Or, if you take it at face value, the force could be used to move entire planets, galaxies, etc. All of which has never happened. No one has demonstrated the ability to do that type of stuff.

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So all you're saying is Rey is more powerful than the average force sensitive... which makes sense as she's kinda the focal point of the third trilogy... Did you think they'd focus on an X-Wing mechanic for these films?

Ah, right, so what you're saying is we have someone who is just flat that much above the rest of everyone we've ever seen in the star wars universe... kinda like... a mary sue? Boring. As. Fuck.

[Sunseeker]

I don't know about them being more powerful than Yoda, but they're more powerful than the average padawan.

I mean, to be fair, this is a pretty major staple of just being a main character. And heck, we don't even have a really good baseline for what the "average padawan" can even do! Like, sense some stuff? Move some small objects? Use a lightsaber?

[Lorgar Aurelian]

You realize that, just because someone knows something from a theoretical standpoint, doesn't mean they can apply it actively? That's the whole reason as to why luke failed and why most people struggle to master the force. Clearly, your own mentality has an influence of some kind. Or, if you take it at face value, the force could be used to move entire planets, galaxies, etc. All of which has never happened. No one has demonstrated the ability to do that type of stuff

at one point in the old EU luke controls a black hole so moving planets really wouldn't be far fetched. nothing on that scale has happened in the new canon though luke does shake a stardestoyer with a force push.

[Puupi]

Did everyone just conveniently forget this:

[PACOX]

R1 explicitly states that he was a former Jedi temple guard on Jedha. He says he wasn’t a Jedi but given the former sentence that’s pretty much guaranteed to be him telling a lie. Not to mention the metal end of his staff looks an awful lot like a lightsaber hilt.

No. He is part of Guardian of the Whills on Jedha

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Weird, I've always seen Yoda ranked above Anakin at that point in time. Do you have a source?

The phantom menace has the whole midalorion thing but then there’s the clone wars episode with the father son and daughter where they toot anakins horn.

Given how the new republic Jedi/sith train and fight yoda would Proabbly wreck anakin as he has more skill and experience though. If they had all the different force skills from the old republic anakin would likely wipe the floor with every one else.

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Did everyone just conveniently forget this:

http://timenerdworld.files.wordpress...pg?w=475&h=206

I think most want to.