Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I swear to god, 90% of the complaints about TFA and TLJ boil down to people who paid little to no attention to the earlier films and made up a bunch of wrong headcanon and are now upset because the new films are confirming that they're wrong about a lot of shit, and they should have paid more attention.

Half this stuff was always how things worked, and it isn't magically "wrong" for the new trilogy to follow the same rules every earlier film set down.

Edit: Which, to be clear, is not me saying the newer films don't have problems. But most of the complaints aren't about anything that's actually an issue.

That’s pretty much it they complain that it breaks the universe because they don’t actually know any thing about the universe and what you point out that it falls in line with every thing else they just ignore the actually universe and claim there fan fic is the one true Starwars.

[Volatilis]

But that's not the core movies and it never has been, and it never will be. Solo and Rogue One proved that when people go to the movies to watch Star Wars, they want to see glow-sticks and space-magic. Clone Wars, Rebels, The Mandalorian prove that when people watch TV they are looking for something new and different.

Yeah well you're clearly right because Rian Johnson tried doing something different with the last jedi and the fanbase still go on about it.

I think the main problem with these movies is that the writing/acting just isnt really that good. Theres some talented actors in there, but the writing does them no favors.

Does anyone actually care what happens to Rey/Poe/Finn? I sure dont.

[Endus]

Like the ingrained incompetence of the stormtroopers.

The worst part about this is that, prior to RotJ, there's no canonical justification for it. The one time we see them shooting a lot and missing is when the heroes are trying to escape, and the scene right after they fly off in the Falcon, we see Vader being told they installed the tracking device. The stormtroopers let them escape. They were shooting to miss. That's the whole plan; to let them feel they've escaped, and use the tracker to follow them.

Then RotJ happens, of course, and the stormtroopers are beaten by a bunch of teddy bears with sticks and stones for weapons, because fuck you.

The worst part, frankly, is that they learned the wrong thing from this, and when they made the droid armies for the prequel era, the basic droids are A> incompetent, B> stupid, and C> pointlessly free-willed enough to cause problems. They're not created to be a threat, they're created to be comic relief, and it disrupts the whole feeling of the prequels, because you can't take the villains seriously.

[Sunseeker]

Yeah well you're clearly right because Rian Johnson tried doing something different with the last jedi and the fanbase still go on about it.

The fanbase can get bent. Buncha toxic whiny bitches. Best thing I've done over the past few years is get out of the fanbase. Can't say I enjoy the new stuff or am existed to see where it will go or think something great could come of all this without some clown jumping up my ass.

Does anyone actually care what happens to Rey/Poe/Finn? I sure dont.

Does anyone actually care what you think? I sure don't.

[Volatilis]

Does anyone actually care what you think? I sure don't.

Then why reply to me on a forum....?

[Frontenac]

We know nothing of the Yoda species so it stands to reasonable possibility that stuff like that comes naturally to their infants, who knows.

We do, however, know a lot about humans and how the Force works within them.
Nobody's asking for "magical" stuff not to happen, but stick to the internal consistency you previously established, don't hip-hop between one thing and the other on a whim.

In the first case the rules are not set, in the second, they are.
It's a matter of narrative.
Glad I could be of help.

Really? Are you sure you know? Because Anakin was able to do a lot of things with the Force before his training. His great talent with mechanics, his skill in piloting and even being able to read Mace Windu's mind in that test where he had to tell what was on Windu's screen. How is reading minds any easier than lifting a few rocks? All of your lot seem to believe that it's harder.

[Volatilis]

It’s not semantics, it’s accuracy. Go ahead and move dem goalposts. I’m sure it helps you lie to yourself more easily.

/golfclap

"move dem goalpost"

Thats one buzzword for the day out of the way for you, just 9 more to go buddy!

[Malaky]

My fanfic is what is explicitly said in the movie?

Explicitly is kind of a big word here. Again, your problem is that you're taking literally something that isn't and treating it as such. Incorrect.

[Nefarious Tea]

Chirrut wasn't an exiled Jedi nor force-sensitive. His order shared common ground with the Jedi but they were separate. Well I guess he is force-sensitive because he believes in the Force, making him aware of it, like a squib in HP, but he is unable to use it.

R1 explicitly states that he was a former Jedi temple guard on Jedha. He says he wasn’t a Jedi but given the former sentence that’s pretty much guaranteed to be him telling a lie. Not to mention the metal end of his staff looks an awful lot like a lightsaber hilt.

[Endus]

The fanbase can get bent. Buncha toxic whiny bitches. Best thing I've done over the past few years is get out of the fanbase. Can't say I enjoy the new stuff or am existed to see where it will go or think something great could come of all this without some clown jumping up my ass.

Honestly, what makes me most eager about Ep 9 is that they're clearly trying to end the Skywalker Saga. There's no way they're going to put Star Wars aside and say "okay, we're done now. No more money."

But, if they wipe the narrative slate clean, they have so much potential. They can jump forward a century or three, to create some distance (tech hasn't really changed since the Old Republic era thousands of years ago, so it doesn't mean you need to change anything visually/technologically). Jedi and Sith are legends. Force-users have become something more . . . diverse. Not all good, of course, but there's certainly no less of the Force around. Maybe everything takes a more master/apprentice process, without overarching guidelines. Sith and Jedi temples are ruins, filled with treasures to those who can access them. Etc.

There's a huge amount of potential to be had by wiping the slate clean except for the base mechanics of the setting and the Force. You'd still want lightsabers and magic and noble quests and evil Empires, but you've got no history to stay beholden to outside that.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Explicitly is kind of a big word here. Again, you're taking literally something that isn't and treating it as such. Incorrect.

Your fanfic doesn’t counteract what is explicitly shown in the movie no matter how many times you say it does.

[Skroe]

She used the Jedi Mind Trick right after being probed by Kylo Ren. Yes, it's surprising, but she could have reproduced that again in a moment of dire need. It only means shes awfully talented. A Mozart of the Force. As for her fight, we already knew she knew basic combat. And she didn't defeat Kylo either. That fight in TFA did not end by one putting down the other.

And even in Legends... Might I remind you a certain Kyle Katarn?

Frankly, I think any explanation for Rey being able to do things like that, and beat Kylo Ren in a duel, is due to JJ Abrams and nothing more. She's one of his typical mystery boxes, and nothing more. The problem with all the "Rey's father was Obiwan" or "She's the secret daughter of Luke Skywalker" or "she's a Jedi trainee who lost her memory before Luke left her on a desert planet" is that it requires there to have been a plan by JJ Abrams in the first place.

There clearly was none. From Kylo Renn exclaiming energetically "WHAT GIRL?!" to her force stunts, it's all his typical gimmickery to make the audience think there is something there, but really, he had no fucking clue. He didn't think it relevant. Or he was going to figure it out later. This is what he always does. In everything he writes, directs and produces. Star Wars fans, like Star Trek fans, love their internal consistency. Their explanation. And that's great! But both franchises had inflicted upon them a guy who does not care for that, and utilizes his lack of care as facade for overall story telling sloppiness.

In retrospect, every word we spent on the internet speculating the "truth about Rey" after TFA was a complete waste of time. It presumed there was some master plan document that was being adhered to at Lucas film. THere wasn't anymore than Michael Bay had a master plan for his Transformers film franchise, which has an internal consistency arguably greater than the sequel trilogy.

So we can call her a "Mozart of the Force". Or we can get some new explanation in the sequel trilogy. And sure, it will by virtue of being in film be cannonized. But that shouldn't change the fact it's effectively a retcon because JJ Abrams, as usual, had no plan or didn't feel bound by the plan when making TFA, and everything added to Rey's story since then is trying to fix what he never cared to build. And he never will care for it, no matter what franchise or films he directs.

Similarly, none of us should expect a hard answer - some would call it crucial plot point - to how the Emperor returns in RoS. Or his connection to Snoke. Or how Rey, Finn and Poe are BFFs despite all being together as a trio for just five minutes at the end of TLJ. Because that's not how JJ Abrams' works. He doesn't think it's important. There is, as always, no document at Lucasfilm that spells it out. It will fall to some book author with the standing staff at Lucasfilm creative to fill in the rather important question of how the Emperor survived RoTJ and so forth.

I think the best thing we can do with this sequel trilogy is just accept it was a mistake bringing aboard two directors who are professionally incapable of writing and directing tightly plotted films. We should accept them for being the complete mess they are and not try and create rationalizations to paper over the creative forces storytelling failure. And we should just move on to a future Star Wars franchise that evidently is seeing more of a MCU-esque stricter creative control under the purview of Jon Favreau and Dave Filoni.

[Frontenac]

Because the Yoda species is yet unestablished while the human species, is.

You didn't see child Anakin lifting houses and speeders in the air, did you?

No, but we saw him pilot pod racers which humans were known not being able to ride, build a droid, read Mace Windu's mind and pilot a starfighter. Not bad for an untrained Force-sensitive, don't you think?

[s_bushido]

people want to see different shit in this massive universe. Thats why the mandolorian is doing so well because it doesnt have a lightsaber in it and focuses on telling good stories within this great universe.

I remain unconvinced that fans want to see anything new. TFA made $2 billion giving people essentially a remake of A New Hope, and TLJ fared much worse in part because "that's not the Luke Skywalker I remember!!!" and "what do you mean Rey isn't the long lost daughter of some famous Star Wars character we already know about?!!!" As I'm pretty sure I've said in that thread, the only thing "different" about The Mandalorian is baby Yoda, right up until it turns out he's a clone or something, which totally has never been seen before in the Star Wars universe. And calling them "good stories" when there's hardly any plot to speak of is...questionable, at best.

[Skroe]

Honestly, what makes me most eager about Ep 9 is that they're clearly trying to end the Skywalker Saga. There's no way they're going to put Star Wars aside and say "okay, we're done now. No more money."

But, if they wipe the narrative slate clean, they have so much potential. They can jump forward a century or three, to create some distance (tech hasn't really changed since the Old Republic era thousands of years ago, so it doesn't mean you need to change anything visually/technologically). Jedi and Sith are legends. Force-users have become something more . . . diverse. Not all good, of course, but there's certainly no less of the Force around. Maybe everything takes a more master/apprentice process, without overarching guidelines. Sith and Jedi temples are ruins, filled with treasures to those who can access them. Etc.

There's a huge amount of potential to be had by wiping the slate clean except for the base mechanics of the setting and the Force. You'd still want lightsabers and magic and noble quests and evil Empires, but you've got no history to stay beholden to outside that.

I would go really far into the future. Like 5000 years. Between the Clone Wars and the Age of the Empire, from what we've seen in a canon, there has been a plundering of the galaxy's political and cultural legacy unlike any other time. A lot of ancient cultures were uprooted, planets laid to waste, and ancient force resources completely plundered. Thousands of years of galactic culture and civilization, in a sense, completely turned upside down and looted for all its worth in about 50 years. I mean consider Jeddah, which was evidently important to Ancient Jedi for it's Kyber crystals. It's now been blown wide open. And Starkiller Base may be Illum (from Clone Wars) apparently? Crazy.

Setting it 5000 years or more in the future would allow much of the Saga-era to fall into ruin and be the ruins that future civilization of the Galaxy lives around. It's a clean slate with just enough that it could hook into the things we know about Star Wars.

It just needs to be different. No Sith-esque Empire. No rebellion. Maybe some kind of human-droid power struggle as machine intelligence has finally taken power in the Galaxy. Star Wars after all did pull from Dune and Foundation.

[Volatilis]

I remain unconvinced that fans want to see anything new. TFA made $2 billion giving people essentially a remake of A New Hope, and TLJ fared much worse in part because "that's not the Luke Skywalker I remember!!!" As I'm pretty sure I've said in that thread, the only thing "different" about The Mandalorian is baby Yoda, right up until it turns out he's a clone or something, which totally has never been seen before in the Star Wars universe. And calling them "good stories" when there's hardly any plot to speak of is...questionable, at best.

TFA made a lot of money because it was a new star wars film under Disney and got good word of mouth so people went to see it. It wasnt till later and had made its money that people picked it apart.

If people dont want to see new stuff then why is mandolorian the number one show in the world right now.

Its not films!!!!! Yeah and Irishman a new scorsese film just came out and wasnt in the cinema's. The world has changed. Viewing habits and styles have changed.

Star wars can change too, we dont need to be scared. Ill hold your hand if you like.

[Malaky]

With the second, somehow, by admitting that Luke's doubt was blocking his success, when you originally attacked the idea that Luke's doubt was blocking his success. Bafflingly self-contradictory.

Bzzzt, lie. Endus lie detected.
I was attacking you guy's idea that "mental blocks" were the only thing blocking Luke from success. Wrong.

Doubt was just a part of it, together with many other elements needed: experience, discipline, meditation, practice, teachings, courage... you know, Jedi training.

And I still am attacking this fanfic of yours, nothing's changed.

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No, but we saw him pilot pod racers which humans were known not being able to ride, build a droid, read Mace Windu's mind and pilot a starfighter. Not bad for an untrained Force-sensitive, don't you think?

That's why they're called Force sensitives, because they can unconsciously tap into the Force and do stuff like this.

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Your fanfic doesn’t counteract what is explicitly shown in the movie no matter how many times you say it does.

Agreed. The problem is that what the movie shows is not what you're pretending it to be.
I'm not counteracting what the movie says, just your fanfiction of what Yoda's speech is.

edit: meh, too long

[Sunseeker]

Honestly, what makes me most eager about Ep 9 is that they're clearly trying to end the Skywalker Saga. There's no way they're going to put Star Wars aside and say "okay, we're done now. No more money."

But, if they wipe the narrative slate clean, they have so much potential. They can jump forward a century or three, to create some distance (tech hasn't really changed since the Old Republic era thousands of years ago, so it doesn't mean you need to change anything visually/technologically). Jedi and Sith are legends. Force-users have become something more . . . diverse. Not all good, of course, but there's certainly no less of the Force around. Maybe everything takes a more master/apprentice process, without overarching guidelines. Sith and Jedi temples are ruins, filled with treasures to those who can access them. Etc.

There's a huge amount of potential to be had by wiping the slate clean except for the base mechanics of the setting and the Force. You'd still want lightsabers and magic and noble quests and evil Empires, but you've got no history to stay beholden to outside that.

It's unfortunate that we'll be beholden to the Legacy stuff for literally over a hundred years of in-setting time. And there is some dumb shit in there.

I mean, there's plenty of backwards time to go back to as well. Thousands of years that for some strange reason technology hasn't much changed and everything is pretty much the same.

[Frontenac]

Bzzzt, lie. Endus lie detected.
I was attacking you guy's idea that "mental blocks" were the only thing blocking Luke from success. Wrong.

Doubt was just a part of it, together with many other elements needed: experience, discipline, meditation, practice, teachings, courage... you know, Jedi training.

And I still am attacking this fanfic of yours, nothing's changed.

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That's why they're called Force sensitives, because they can unconsciously tap into the Force and do stuff like this.

Oh, and lifting rocks or pulling stuff is above their means?

[s_bushido]

Thousands of years that for some strange reason technology hasn't much changed and everything is pretty much the same.

Because it's Star Wars!

Seriously though, this is why I always have to remind myself that it's not actually the 40k universe (where the technological stagnation and regression of the Imperium of Man is part of the story) whenever I read or watch a youtube video about the technological advances of the Star Wars universe...