Thrall will return as Warchief

[Syegfryed]

And comic covering the same events

the comic he didn't use the elements in the fight, just to stop it, so, we can't say for real if he use magic in the fight

we still have to consider what version is canon and what not

Not trying to argue about fairness or equal. Just trying to point out that the rules for Mok'gora are very vague in the story at best.

its not that the rules are vague, the rules are simple

but sometimes, in some fights, they bend the rules, change sometimes with the accord of something, like they choosing to do the duel not to death

this don't mean the original an base mak'gora was not to death, its the base rule, but they change to adapt in a context

same with magic being allowed, in the fight of the paladin and shaman both could use magic, so they adapted the original one to be fair, thats why they allowed one weapon, magic but only letter armor, cause one would use plate and the other not, taking away the fairness of the combat

[Sting]

Oh hell no not this fucking green jesus bullshit again. Is Metzen low on money?

[Syegfryed]

Now will he still be The Earth-Warder? Or will that responsibility fall upon one of the surviving Black Dragons, Wrathion, Sabellion or Ebyssian?

pretty sure those titles are just symbolic since the dragonflights lost their power, no aspects, they would just be leaders of the dragonflights

And by his look, something must have happened, he maybe change his mindset after the legion/wod fiasco

[mickybrighteyes]

but sometimes, in some fights, they bend the rules, change sometimes with the accord of something, like they choosing to do the duel not to death

Like choosing not to kill or fight can have the loser or both particpants exiled (frostwolf turned thunderlord, the twin boss fight in blackrock foundry).... or one party refusing to fight in general may be seen as strength in and of itself and a way to force the other party to relent (durotan v Ga'nar).

but only letter armor, cause one would use plate and the other not, taking away the fairness of the combat

now this argument is going into gameplay restrictions that don't apply to characters typically. Also the fight only allowed clothing and NO ARMOR because that's the rules determined for that duel.

Again it's not about 'fairness' or whatever. Mak'gora rules are:

"The rules of a Mak'gora seem to be different between each Mak'gora, since they are chosen and set by the participants themselves. Generally, there are thus no specific rules. The only consistent theme in all Mak'gora is that the pair must fight to the death or until submission. "

Mak'gora doesn't care about fairness because it's mak'gora. The participants might because of their pride and desire for honor. Mak'gora restricts or allows as the combatants choose, and this is seen in how the fights are portrayed across multiple mediums and lack of conformity.

you can argue that one is an exception and your view is teh norm... but you can find as many sources countering your claim as you can find supporting it.

[shise]

Let´s hope so for the sake of the Horde

[Schattenlied]

no, because one weapon is allowed, not 2, if would use magic by the start you should not use normal weapons

I'm sorry, do you think that Gorehowl and Doomhammer are normal weapons? Are you that out of touch with the lore?

again, the rules are there, they don't need to say "magic is forbidden" they need to say "magic is allowed"

False. In the Mak'goras we have seen where someone uses magic it not once is declared beforehand that magic is allowed and no one takes any issue with it.

again, the shattering, clearly say one weapon, no armor and to the death

again, rules for one fight. You've still yet to say where magic is considered a weapon.

there is no rules saying magic is allowed freely

There is no rule saying it isn't.

the only time magic was allowed when both participants agreed with that, thus declaring that was ok, like i said before

completely 110% false, in every instance where magic us used in Mak'gora not one singe time was it ever "agreed with that" beforehand that magic was ok, it was never even mentioned a single time, and yet no one took issue with it.


You are wrong, just accept your loss and move on with your life.

the comic he didn't use the elements in the fight, just to stop it, so, we can't say for real if he use magic in the fight

Oh please do tell me what would make a "KRAK-KOOMB" sound other than thunder?

Pretty fuckin sure he used magic during the fight, that is not a sound that happens when weapons hit each other... Shit is clearly implying the use of magic during the "-- In the Ring of Valor" panel.

Side note, I absolutely hate how frekin tiny they made the orc's heads in this comic, they look ridiculous...

[mickybrighteyes]

Oh please do tell me what would make a "KRAK-KOOMB" sound other than thunder?

Scourge invasiong reaching Orgrimmar, the reason for Thrall putting things on hold.

edit:

but that lightning strike in the last panel was definitely magic.

[Schattenlied]

Scourge invasiong reaching Orgrimmar, the reason for Thrall putting things on hold.

edit:

but that lightning strike in the last panel was definitely magic.

I haven't see anything the scourge does that makes that kind of sound.

[Schattenlied]

Again, so much irony!

None whatsoever.

[Syegfryed]

I'm sorry, do you think that Gorehowl and Doomhammer are normal weapons? Are you that out of touch with the lore?

are normal weapons in the sense of being just a weapon, not something beyond, like a living being or another entity.

False. In the Mak'goras we have seen where someone uses magic it not once is declared beforehand that magic is allowed and no one takes any issue with it.

only in 2 of then they use magic, and with paladin and shaman they both agreed with the terms as a equal fight.

again, rules for one fight.

not rules for the night, they clearly invoked the ancient and traditional one, with no changing, the raw and base duel with the raw and base rules

There is no rule saying it isn't.

there is the rules not mentioning then, im yet to ind the rules who allow it.

completely 110% false, in every instance where magic us used in Mak'gora not one singe time was it ever "agreed with that" beforehand that magic was ok, it was never even mentioned a single time, and yet no one took issue with it.

the mak'gora with Shagara and Ashra both agreed the use of magic cause both could use it.

You are wrong, just accept your loss and move on with your life

this is not a game to win or lost, its actually a conversation, if you just so eager to "win" then this is the problem of you ignoring all the arguments

Oh please do tell me what would make a "KRAK-KOOMB" sound other than thunder?

are you for real? its clearly the impact of the weapons, LMAO, yeah, this explain lots of things, you are heavy biased indeed.

Pretty fuckin sure he used magic during the fight, that is not a sound that happens when weapons hit each other...

its cleayl the sound of the weapons clashing even the effect its from another color than the actual freaking lighintg lol

Shit is clearly implying the use of magic during the "-- In the Ring of Valor" panel.

yet, the only lighting was to stop the the fight.

[Rend Blackhand]

I don't have that much love for Thrall because of his cheating mak'gora, supporting Vol'Jin and cucking his entire race to live in a desert for crimes so many of them never committed and those that did were imprisoned for over 20 years.

That said, the leadership of the Horde should remain Orcish. I believe Saurfang will die during the story arc and get his Warrior's death leaving only Thrall to take over.

[Ealyssa]

Thrall cheated. Let's not try and pretend otherwise. Garrosh was at least honourable to stick to the rules.

Lolwut ? Garrosh had a poisoned waeapon against Baine who was destroying him...

Garrosh wasn't the warchief, just a dictator who cheated his access to power. Period.

[Schattenlied]

are normal weapons in the sense of being just a weapon, not something beyond, like a living being or another entity.

sure thing buddy, sure thing.

only in 2 of then they use magic, and with paladin and shaman they both agreed with the terms as a equal fight.

Incorrect, no terms were agreed upon beforehand by either of them that magic was to be allowed, in fact it was not even mentioned...The Orc declared that they were both to only use one weapon and then they both used magic, and she used a shield.

not rules for the night, they clearly invoked the ancient and traditional one, with no changing, the raw and base duel with the raw and base rules

Then why did they have to declare the rules specifically?

there is the rules not mentioning then, im yet to ind the rules who allow it.

You've yet to find any rules that disallow it, not once ever in the lore is it said that magic is allowed, and yet in every instance where magic is used no one cares.

Guess what that means.

It's not disallowed.

the mak'gora with Shagara and Ashra both agreed the use of magic cause both could use it.

They didn't even mention magic, it was not agreed upon, stop making crap up, do I need to link you the comic page for that one? The rules for their fight, as specifically declared by the orc were:

One weapon.

No armor.

To the death. And that's it.

And then they both used magic, and the orc used a shield.


It was not agreed upon beforehand or declared that magic was allowed and yet no one cared, so stop making stuff up.

this is the problem of you ignoring all the arguments

No, the problem is you headcannoning that magic is disallowed despite there being exactly 0 evidence to support your claim and there actually being evidence that you are wrong.

are you for real? its clearly the impact of the weapons, LMAO, yeah, this explain lots of things, you are heavy biased indeed.

Do explain to me how weapons make that sound when they hit eachother.

[Syegfryed]

Like choosing not to kill or fight can have the loser or both particpants exiled (frostwolf turned thunderlord, the twin boss fight in blackrock foundry).... or one party refusing to fight in general may be seen as strength in and of itself and a way to force the other party to relent (durotan v Ga'nar).

exactly, but the base rules are base rules.

now this argument is going into gameplay restrictions that don't apply to characters typically. Also the fight only allowed clothing and NO ARMOR because that's the rules determined for that duel.

taking away gameplay things, by logic a plate armor would endure mroe damage and a mail would make you faster, so, they chose the same armor that both could use

a variation of the rules of no armor.

Again it's not about 'fairness' or whatever. Mak'gora rules are:

its about fairness because its a duel of honor

"The rules of a Mak'gora seem to be different between each Mak'gora, since they are chosen and set by the participants themselves. Generally, there are thus no specific rules. The only consistent theme in all Mak'gora is that the pair must fight to the death or until submission. "

this is just the wowpedia version, this is not ingame.

there is specific rules, its the old ancient orchish tradition, the ones we could see exactly how it was in cairne and Garrosh fight

you can argue that one is an exception and your view is teh norm... but you can find as many sources countering your claim as you can find supporting it.

my view is not the norm, the ancient duel, the one cairne and Garrosh did are the norm, everything else is exceptions made to fit the context, by time or participants

the fight between garrosh and thrall was different from the norm, this could relieved, cause it was already done before, but was not fair, neither honorable, he was in advantage and those are the facts.

[mickybrighteyes]

Lolwut ? Garrosh had a poisoned waeapon against Baine Cairne who was destroying him...

Garrosh wasn't the warchief, just a dictator who cheated his access to power. Period.

And Garrosh WAS warchief as appointed by Thrall who had already departed who deemed Garrosh worthy after becoming a war hero over teh course of the Northrend campaign.

Also Garrosh had no knowledge of the poisoned weapon as Magatha was doing her own thing trying to make her own play for power within the Tauren Tribes.

[Schattenlied]

are normal weapons in the sense of being just a weapon, not something beyond, like a living being or another entity.

sure thing buddy, sure thing.

only in 2 of then they use magic, and with paladin and shaman they both agreed with the terms as a equal fight.

Incorrect, no terms were agreed upon beforehand by either of them that magic was to be allowed, in fact it was not even mentioned...The Orc declared that they were both to only use one weapon and then they both used magic, and she used a shield.

not rules for the night, they clearly invoked the ancient and traditional one, with no changing, the raw and base duel with the raw and base rules

Then why did they have to declare the rules specifically?

there is the rules not mentioning then, im yet to ind the rules who allow it.

You've yet to find any rules that disallow it, not once ever in the lore is it said that magic is allowed, and yet in every instance where magic is used no one cares.

Guess what that means.

It's not disallowed.

the mak'gora with Shagara and Ashra both agreed the use of magic cause both could use it.

They didn't even mention magic, it was not agreed upon, stop making crap up, do I need to link you the comic page for that one?

this is the problem of you ignoring all the arguments

No, the problem is you headcannoning that magic is disallowed despite there being exactly 0 evidence to support your claim and there actually being evidence that you are wrong.

are you for real? its clearly the impact of the weapons, LMAO, yeah, this explain lots of things, you are heavy biased indeed.

Do explain to me how weapons make that sound when they hit eachother.

[mickybrighteyes]

this is just the wowpedia version, this is not ingame.

it's an observation of the limited number of total mak'gora events we see.

We even have an example of a mak'gora denied because the challenger wasn't an orc or ogre. The problem is that we have multiple sources of Mak'gora with different rules being followed and only a couple with explicitely stated rules concerning the manner by which combat was fought.

You can site the Shattering and other can site the pre-patch wrath and death events of Garrosh to show case different examples of armor/weapon restrictions.

We can discuss the losing scenario and what it entails and how the survivng participants are exiled or not (even with examples where BOTH parties are exiled or allowed to stay despite NEITHER party wanting to fight to the death in their respective fights)

You want to argue about consistent rules for teh fight that are NOT consistent at all and state that various examples are exceptions or not and you can't site any source except for ONE FIGHT.

edit:

also on the subject of character's in lore vs in game the restrictions on armor by class tend to get ignored since whoever can wear whatever when it suits the story. See Anduin or Thrall... Priest and Shaman respectively, but wear plate armor or cloth depending on events. It is therefore a poor measure by which to argue rules being allowed or disallowed in a given situation.

You want to use teh point that it is a duel of honor therefore there are specific rules, but the lore is vague on these rules and they are changed with basically EVERY Mak'gora we see.

[Goldielocks]

why not? do you think every voice actor of wow actually work on blizzard?

Just because he’s retired. While he said he’s not retiring from Thrall, he’s not going to do as much. Thrall was written out as losing his power and Doomhammer just months before Metzen announced his retirement. I don’t think it’s a coincidence. The story took advantage of Metzen’s absence.

[Syegfryed]

sure thing buddy, sure thing.

sure yes

Incorrect, no terms were agreed upon beforehand by either of them that magic was to be allowed, in fact it was not even mentioned...The Orc declared that they were both to only use one weapon and then they both used magic, and she used a shield.

because both were spellcasters, duh

Then why did they have to declare the rules specifically?

to make sure it was going to be like the ancient tradition.

You've yet to find any rules that disallow it, not once ever in the lore is it said that magic is allowed, and yet in every instance where magic is used no one cares.

because in first both of then used, and the second no one saw it.

Guess what that means.

that when both used it can be considered a duel of honor, a fair fight, but when only one its fucked up and dishonorable.

They didn't even mention magic, it was not agreed upon, stop making crap up, do I need to link you the comic page for that one?

because they both know they were a freaking shaman and a paladin, magic users by default, obviously for thenw as ok

No, the problem is you headcannoning that magic is disallowed despite there being exactly 0 evidence to support your claim and there actually being evidence that you are wrong.

you are "headcannoning" your way tot he conversation saying magic is completely fine because one instance when both used to validate the bullshit duel that only thrall used, saying if A its true then B its true

I stick with the canon mak'gora, ancient orchish tradition evoked in the shattering between Cairne and Garrosh. 1 weapon, no armor and to death, everything else is people bending and adapting to make it fair and honorable in their way and context.

Garrosh and thrall fight was unfair and dishonrable, he was bested in a warrior and honorable fight and had to use the elements to get his way out, and thats why he got crippling depression

Do explain to me how weapons make that sound when they hit eachother.

why they would not? giant orcs hitting giant weapons and what sound you want then to make? its clearly a onomatopéia its not suppoed to be the exactly same sound but similar.

[Cobman]

This is not mak'gora thread this is mak'headcannonca one, wait for the patch to come live servers and then we'll see which side is correct, therefore if thrall has his shamanistic abilities or not.