Stossel: The End of Tipping

[Risale]

Like someone else already said I only tip if the service is above and beyond other then that nope.
Only if I am in a country like the US that doesn't pay people in the service industry a living wage will I tip.
The gall of companies (cultures) not willing to pay there workers a decent wage and forcing others to pay for the difference is loathsome.

[Krastyn]

If Tipping was done away with, just dropping servers wages down to minimum wage isn't going to fly.

The restaurant needs to look at the average sales per server, and make the wage 15% of that.

For example. If you sold $400 worth of food and drinks in a shift, you would expect $60 for the night. A shift could be 4pm - 10pm. So $60 dollars divided by 6 hours is $10 a hour. Which is above the minimum wage. This way the servers are still earning in the ballpark of what they made before Tipping was removed.

But often times the server has no control over that. Whether I order a salad and a $15 bottle of wine or I order a steak and a $130 bottle of wine is my decision. The amount of work the server does in either case is the same. Why should they be commission based when they have barely any input in the sale?

[plagueshard801]

I just wish the tip-reliant staff would shut the fuck up when they do get stiffed. You want to roll the dice with your wage, and then throw a fit when someone doesn't abide by your expectations? Fuck you, suck it up and accept it like an adult, or get a job with a real wage, again, like an adult.

Spoken like someone who does not tip, and is not an adult. Your mom has been serving your meals for too many years, you seem to think it's a free service.

[shaunika123]

Good. Unskilled labor deserves poor wages.

that's not how it works at all.

you dont get payed for "skill" you get payed for responsibility.

there are plenty of high paying jobs that arent hard, you just have a much bigger liability/responsibility.

[Wiyld]

Ever been a server?

lol clearly not

The tipping system is stupid. It is rife with corruption and weaknesses. There are so so many ways to screw workers out of money when they live off tips. Its a fallacy to think that on average wait staff make more off tips then they would on standard wages, people like the woman in the video delude themselves into thinking they are 'doing so well', because it feels good to go home with a big wad of cash in pocket. It certainly feels more satisfying then just having a direct deposit every week or two but that doesn't mean its actually better.

This isnt a decision of min wage vs. tips. If you think wait staff would all make min wage you are not seeing how things work.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

I'm not talking about staff though. Are there any other industries like the restaurant business where owners can pay staff $2 and customers cover the rest?

I'm not sure what you are talking about. Anyone making under the minimum wage via some sort of special law for tipped employees MUST legally be paid the difference by the employer if they make less than the minimum wage. Thats what this thread is about.

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If Tipping was done away with, just dropping servers wages down to minimum wage isn't going to fly.

The restaurant needs to look at the average sales per server, and make the wage 15% of that.

For example. If you sold $400 worth of food and drinks in a shift, you would expect $60 for the night. A shift could be 4pm - 10pm. So $60 dollars divided by 6 hours is $10 a hour. Which is above the minimum wage. This way the servers are still earning in the ballpark of what they made before Tipping was removed.

Honestly not sure why you think that, with the exception that removing tipping would lower any tipped employees pay a little. I don't see why waitstaff technically deserve more than minimum wage.

[Jonnusthegreat]

That depends on where you work. At TGI Fridays, I would make between $40 and $100 on a night shift pending on the size of the parties I was waiting on. At Cheesecake Factory, anything less than $100 on a night shift means you had a horrible night.

It greatly varies from place to place, as well as who sits at your tables and what they order, and finally how good or bad they are as tippers. Too many variables to say whether a particular server is paid well, or poorly.

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Ever been a server?

No, because I have a skill.

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that's not how it works at all.

you dont get payed for "skill" you get payed for responsibility.

there are plenty of high paying jobs that arent hard, you just have a much bigger liability/responsibility.

Except anyone can be a server. It requires no skill. Anything that requires no skill should not receive a good payout.

[The Stormbringer]

Waiters and waitresses, you know, the people who actually perform the job, hate the idea of losing their tips.

They make more money this way. Leave them alone por favor.

Plenty of places where tips go into a jar and are distributed as the manager sees fit. Sometimes if there are lost sales or people skipping out, the manager will even take from the tip jar to pay for it. I've even heard stories where the servers only get paid above the minimum wage (what is legally required) via tips being given to them, and then the rest are kept for the store. These are questionable or even outright illegal practices, but it happens.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Spoken like someone who does not tip, and is not an adult. Your mom has been serving your meals for too many years, you seem to think it's a free service.

Honestly I would just prefer good food be cooked and we can remove any waitstaff. I wouldn't mind getting my own food or drinks. Shit, some restaurant have it to where you can literally order at the table with a tablet device. Servers aren't even taking orders anymore.

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Plenty of places where tips go into a jar and are distributed as the manager sees fit. Sometimes if there are lost sales or people skipping out, the manager will even take from the tip jar to pay for it. I've even heard stories where the servers only get paid above the minimum wage (what is legally required) via tips being given to them, and then the rest are kept for the store. These are questionable or even outright illegal practices, but it happens.

The only way I could see that happening is if the employees signed some sort of contract. I know thats the only way its legal for tips to be collected and spread out between the store.

[stevenho]

I'm not sure what you are talking about. Anyone making under the minimum wage via some sort of special law for tipped employees MUST legally be paid the difference by the employer if they make less than the minimum wage. Thats what this thread is about.

Maybe I'll try to break it up into sections:

1. Restaurant owner pays workers $2. Customers cover the rest.
2. Bakery owner pays workers $8, because he is required by law.
3. Restaurants owner's labour costs are a fraction of baker's costs.
4. Why is restaurant industry receiving preferential treatment and how is that legal?

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Maybe I'll try to break it up into sections:

1. Restaurant owner pays workers $2. Customers cover the rest.
2. Bakery owner pays workers $8, because he is required by law.
3. Restaurants owner's labour costs are a fraction of baker's costs.
4. Why is restaurant industry receiving preferential treatment and how is that legal?

I have no idea. I am against tipping, but its the current law. I think you are arguing a different point than everyone else.

[stevenho]

You might be right, but I was curious because it is illegal where I come from. And the thread seems a good place to ask

[shaunika123]

No, because I have a skill.

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Except anyone can be a server. It requires no skill. Anything that requires no skill should not receive a good payout.

I couldnt be

I have a master's degree and I'd be a horrible server.
'Id fuck up literally every 2nd order
forget which table ordered what etc.


again, it's not about the skill
it's about responsibility, and replacability.

and again, there's a difference between "shitty pay" and "shitty pay"
sure waiters shouldnt be millionairs, but still it's an important job and a job nonetheless so you shouldnt literally starve if you do it.

[Hilhen7]

Plenty of places where tips go into a jar and are distributed as the manager sees fit. Sometimes if there are lost sales or people skipping out, the manager will even take from the tip jar to pay for it. I've even heard stories where the servers only get paid above the minimum wage (what is legally required) via tips being given to them, and then the rest are kept for the store. These are questionable or even outright illegal practices, but it happens.

If the store is keeping the tips they are required by law (In most states) to pay sales tax on it. I highly doubt that they actually pay sales tax on the tips they are keeping from their employees.

[shaunika123]

Tipping is retarded, I would support pretty much anything to make the concept go away, mostly because the idea of tipping has leaked into so many other professions it's becoming annoying.

problem is, that if "tipping" wasnt a thing, then it's not the waiters who'd get all that extra money, but the owners.

[vindicatorx]

not really. you'd just have to pay a higher base.

Where do you think that money is coming from genius?

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No you didn't explain it
You wrote that you pay them (lets say) $2 per hour and somebody else is paying them the rest of the money. Not you.

The employer pays them the difference. You need everything explained to you?

[stevenho]

The employer pays them the difference. You need everything explained to you?

No, employer pays $2, customers pay the rest. How is that legal.

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post49859212

[shaunika123]

Where do you think that money is coming from genius?

you have two options

either raise base prices, and screw the customers
or essentially cut the pay of the waiters and screw them.

I'm fine with paying a little extra if I get a good service.

I wouldnt want every waiter to get royally fucked just because I'm too cheap.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

you have two options

either raise base prices, and screw the customers
or essentially cut the pay of the waiters and screw them.

I'm fine with paying a little extra if I get a good service.

I wouldnt want every waiter to get royally fucked just because I'm too cheap.

I don't get the service part of all this. Chick-Fil-A takes food and refills to your table now. The lines between fast food and restaurants are being blurred, at least as far as "service" goes. Why aren't fast food workers tipped but waiters have some right to tips? Wait staff is a minimum wage job, its so close to fast food type jobs I don't see the difference.

[shaunika123]

I don't get the service part of all this. Chick-Fil-A takes food and refills to your table now. The lines between fast food and restaurants are being blurred, at least as far as "service" goes. Why aren't fast food workers tipped but waiters have some right to tips? Wait staff is a minimum wage job, its so close to fast food type jobs I don't see the difference.

well that's something we have to decide for ourselves as a society really.

but afaik, those fast food restaurants dont get tipped because it's in their policy not to be.