Mafia 109 - Game Thread - Russian Roulette

[Crackleslap]

There is a ton of stuff that has happened today. Perhaps you might dig into some of that.

Veleryn is your only read? How? Why? He's barely done anything (compared to other players) this game. That's not to say he's inactive, but there's very little there to even find scummy. So how do you have such a strong read on him?

Explain your read on him.

Not solely basing my push on a 'read' per se, it's more of a gamble. Trying a little more of a different approach this game. Whilst still pushing(voting) on the first train i see day one, I stated day one that I was going to push Veredyn if Marack flipped town. That was my conditions for my vote. Now, Marack is dead and Veredyn is not. So thats where I want to push. Veredyn was the second vote on an innocent.

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Amazing. So you're calling me a liar? That means I'm scum, doesn't it? Why would I lie about you if I'm town?

Oh Dendrek, lets not play this game. Were you act incredibly obtuse.

[Dendrek]

Oh Dendrek, lets not play this game. Were you act incredibly obtuse.

It's not an act. :shame:

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I want to get you lynched, and rather than defend yourself or engage in anything that's happened to look like you actually care if town wins, you're going to gamble that your completely random choice to call Veleryn scummy D1 might hold some merit, where he might slip if you push a false bit of "pressure" onto him? Forgive me if that doesn't make any sense.

[Crackleslap]

It's not an act. :shame:

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I want to get you lynched, and rather than defend yourself or engage in anything that's happened to look like you actually care if town wins, you're going to gamble that your completely random choice to call Veleryn scummy D1 might hold some merit, where he might slip if you push a false bit of "pressure" onto him? Forgive me if that doesn't make any sense.

Also the fact he is sucm reading Lora, someone you stated that we shouldn't be focusing on, who's also evidently the cop, which I'm not and you vote me instead? Also based on your false perception of me too? Okay fam.

Stay classy.

[Dendrek]

And here's the thing regarding your "I play different every game" statement: Playing different does not include lurking so much that players might actually forget you're playing. This is not a legitimate town strategy. Do you want to be mislynched? If not, then what is the actual strategy behind this "play"?

This is a serious question. If you can't come up with a strategic benefit to it, it means there was no strategy involved.

[Largehorn]

You assume you know how to interpret what I consider to be forced. You also assume it's easy to get around it. I consider multiple types of context when analyzing a statement. It's pretty difficult to come up with a narrative that won't have any holes in it if you're lying. That's not even to say the argument has to be sound. As you pointed out, Listo's arguments were somewhat lacking. And yet I said they didn't feel forced.

Okay great. They aren't forced. Why is that lack of force such a reason for you to "dismiss" what I've said about Listo? Especially since I don't think I said they were.

But in truth, I don't know why you'd bother saying this at all. Are you saying it's easy to avoid my scum hunting? Because if it is, it's certainly surprising that you couldn't.

That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that it's easy to avoid a "forced logic" line from you. It's one aspect but it's an easy aspect to avoid. I brought it up because you seem to be using the fact that Listo's analysis wasn't "forced" as a means to discount my critique of it.

My point was more that if your question we're referring to now is something you had in mind, why did you wait until I started going after you to bring it up? Why didn't you bring it up before that? I'm not saying completely ignore me and go after Listo. You have the right to defend yourself. Including with evidence that you thought compelling. What strikes me as odd is that you thought that evidence was compelling, but you never brought it up.

The evidence was only compelling once I had it in front of me. There are unfortunately two "active" Largehorns. The one who does everything he can to be active in threads playing from his mind and memory because he's at work and the one (now) who is at home sitting in front of his computer doing other things that can be alt tabbed from to look at his notes and piece back through threads. The first, who initally posted, got the "hey I've read the thread and this is what feels off to me" out into the thread and the second is who had the time to go back and put evidence to that gut feel.

That's not a reasonable interpretation of context. He might have read the posts above and replied before getting through the rest? It might have been something that stuck in his mind before he finished reading the rest and then decided to post it? If he thought there was something compelling to add to the thread, even if that line of conversation had temporarily stopped, why wouldn't he add it?

There's no reason for him not to, but you can't say your version of the "context" around his post is correct when mine is equally correct. That's kind of the point here. Based on the context of the thread as I read it, his post was out of place. This is the problem with statements that don't quote something. You run the risk of this ambiguity.

Your first post regarding Lora was absolutely fine. Your second one is less so. But regardless, my issue is mostly that it's not productive. It may have just been an error in judgement on your part, in my opinion it was becoming too much of an issue. I don't think Lora should be our focus.

Fair enough, it's not the most productive but at the time it was really the only thing I could honestly (as in "truthfully"... not as in "only") contribute on so I did.

His claim is "easy" to disprove. Our focus needs to be the unconfirmed people.

Though I didn't realize he was confirmed. Was there a mod post that I missed?

[Dendrek]

I'm going to prep everyone for the inevitable.

"I'm actually the doc, so don't lynch me. Soz." -Crackleslap

Can we just go ahead and pretend he's already said that and lynch him?

[Crackleslap]

And here's the thing regarding your "I play different every game" statement: Playing different does not include lurking so much that players might actually forget you're playing. This is not a legitimate town strategy. Do you want to be mislynched? If not, then what is the actual strategy behind this "play"?

This is a serious question. If you can't come up with a strategic benefit to it, it means there was no strategy involved.

And you're voting me becasue "Town crackle posts a lot" 'Scuse me? Did you see last game? I was town and I sucked. I'm responding to you and giving my read, I also blatantly stated day one what exactly I'd do this day phase. So why's your vote still on me? Hmm?

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I'm going to prep everyone for the inevitable.

"I'm actually the doc, so don't lynch me. Soz." -Crackleslap

Can we just go ahead and pretend he's already said that and lynch him?

Oh and the fabric unwoves! (not sure if this is a real word but im using it!)

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Tell me Dendrek, when was the last time I claimed TPR?

[Dendrek]

@Largehorn I didn't dismiss your arguments about Listo. I just didn't want to make a massive followup post including them. I did consider them. And they have merit.

[Largehorn]

@Largehorn I didn't dismiss your arguments about Listo. I just didn't want to make a massive followup post including them. I did consider them. And they have merit.

Oh... I know...

I meant not this last "follow up" post, but seemingly before that.

I should have been a bit more clear there.

[Dendrek]

Oh... I know...

I meant not this last "follow up" post, but seemingly before that.

I should have been a bit more clear there.

Well, in that vain, I didn't dismiss the earlier ones either.

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Oh and the fabric unwoves! (not sure if this is a real word but im using it!)

What does this mean?

[Largehorn]

Well, in that vain, I didn't dismiss the earlier ones either.

I can't say I completely believe you on that one :P

[Crackleslap]

Well, in that vain, I didn't dismiss the earlier ones either.

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What does this mean?

I start attempting to have a conversation with you, which you asked me for and you immediately start unravelling and rather engaging, you just start "LYNCH CRACKLE LMAO HES GONNA CLAIM DOC LUL" and any basis of argument is flown out the window.

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Also you haven't answered my question about when the last time I claimed TPR was. Since you know my game so well apparently and know what I do and going to do!

[Dendrek]

And you're voting me becasue "Town crackle posts a lot" 'Scuse me? Did you see last game? I was town and I sucked. I'm responding to you and giving my read, I also blatantly stated day one what exactly I'd do this day phase. So why's your vote still on me? Hmm?

1. No, I'm not voting on you because "Town crackle posts a lot". You don't seem to get it. I never said that. I said you'd be engaged if you were town. Your posts would contain substance. Your posts might not be incredible. And you might make bad judgments or arguments. Or maybe you wouldn't. But there would at least be some semblance that you care about the game. Right now, it feels like you only care about not getting lynched + whatever it is you're attempting to do regarding Veredyn.

By the way, you didn't answer my question.

2. I don't recall you saying anything D1 that explains how you're currently playing.

[Crackleslap]

Unvote
Vote: Marack

If Marack gets lynched and is town i propose we lynch Veredyn.

Answered. Your turn!

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Don't even remember if I've put my vote out yet if not have it again!

Unvote
vote: Veredyn

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I stated that I was going to push Veredyn if Marack was town.

I've asked Veredyn for his reads. (I know he's given them, but I want updated)

Others in the thread have done some work with him already. He has/d Lora in his top 3 scum which I found extra peculiar and doesn't make me want to sway my vote anymore. I'm attempting my own pressure, granted its later in the day than it should be, but im doing it now. It's exactly what you're doing in attempting to put pressure on me. So I don't know how its any different.

AND ABOVE ALL, WHY SHOULD MY OWN LYNCHNG NOT BE IN MY BEST INTEREST? I know I'm town, of course im gonna fight it and your bullshit reasons.

[Dendrek]

I want to point something out for posterity:

1. I pushed hard on Bageloaf D2 to get him to respond. I called him scum a few times. But there was only one point in that where I actually believed he was scum. Most of that was me trying to antagonize him to force him to respond to me. The time I meant it, it was based on an misinterpretation of something he said. I realized, upon reflection, my read was wrong. I did not push on him at all today.

2. I pushed on Large because I thought his reads post was scummy. It felt cheap, like he wasn't trying. He and I both acknowledged the same fact about it: it was non-committal. I argued with him to force him to be committal. Some of his other posts rubbed me the wrong way, and I wanted to set up a dichotomy to prevent a possible mislynch on Listo. Large is the counter point. And I still believe that: If Large is scum, Listo is not.

3. But in the case of Crackle, I am not testing. I am not engaging to get his reads. He is the first player I can legitimately say I think is scum.

[Crackleslap]

Cool, cool. You're allowed to push people, even over a misrepresentation! But when I state that I wan't to push Veredyn because reasons already explained its "nah cant have that"

You still haven't answered my question, I answered yours.

Here's another question for you since you're going to ignore my other request again; Besides me, who is your best read for being scum?

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Sure your big response post basically negates any "pressure" you might have gotten from it on Vere. Why have you decided to focus then instead of reacting to literally anything else in the thread?

Especially since you have a "read" but you don't know it scum or not?

I didn't react to anything in the thread at the time because I didn't have time, I skimmed through it very quickly and saw cop, lora, cop, lora and cop and missed anything else said. So I stated what my intent was. Now that i've had time im fleshing it out a little bit and responding to questions I've been asked and told people to ask me.

With that said, what's your take on things so far bebe gurl?

[Dendrek]

Here's another question for you since you're going to ignore my other request again; Besides me, who is your best read for being scum?

Virothe.

And I'm ignoring your first question because it's pointless. I didn't pretend that post was based on a meta read. It wasn't even a particularly serious post.

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Cool, cool. You're allowed to push people, even over a misrepresentation! But when I state that I wan't to push Veredyn because reasons already explained its "nah cant have that"

I have no problem with you trying to push Veredyn. Feel free to push on him. He deserves scrutiny as much as anyone else. But what you're doing is not a push. You're barely tapping him with your finger.

However, what you're not doing, at least not doing very well, is presenting a case that you might actually be town.

[Nefarious Tea]

@Crackleslap

Why you do dis? I am built strongk like glorious IS tank.

Also, my top mafia reads are Lora/Dendrek. I outlined why Lora earlier (sacrificing Krayzy as a ploy). I pegged Dendrek as strong town yesterday but he's been so bloody combative today in a game with no vigilante role that constantly trying to put everyone on the defensive sounds rather mafia.

Finger of Suspicion: Lora (again)
Finger of Suspicion: Dendrek

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Also,

Finger of Suspicion: Crackleslap

because why would you want to lynch me so badly? Russian mob trying to make me take the fall for accidentally starting the Marack train on day one with fuckin two decade old video game logic?

[Crackleslap]

Virothe.

And I'm ignoring your first question because it's pointless. I didn't pretend that post was based on a meta read. It wasn't even a particularly serious post.

Don't lie.

Also slightly don't like the fact that Danner scum reads Veredyn and doesn't vote him, votes me instead. Granted it's somewhat obvious why but still kinda weird. Hasn't added anything after that.

I'm gonna be Dendrek here since Danner now has less posts than me; "OH EM GE INACTIVE DANNER IS ALWAYS SCUM AND DOESN'T PLAY GREAT AS SCUM AND IS MUCH MORE ENGAGING WHEN TOWN."

Real reasons; He debated Lora being cop and whether if he was true or not when it was already kinda obvious he is the cop. Yes we all knew Lora always claims cop. He now has a vote on me for pressures sake, but hasn't added anything of value to his vote other than that. Hasn't done much since because he's probably working/sleeping doing whatever liek a real person. But I'd like to hear from you @Danner about your current perspective.

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@Crackleslap

Why you do dis? I am built strongk like glorious IS tank.

Also, my top mafia reads are Lora/Dendrek. I outlined why Lora earlier (sacrificing Krayzy as a ploy). I pegged Dendrek as strong town yesterday but he's been so bloody combative today in a game with no vigilante role that constantly trying to put everyone on the defensive sounds rather mafia.

Finger of Suspicion: Lora (again)
Finger of Suspicion: Dendrek

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Also,

Finger of Suspicion: Crackleslap

because why would you want to lynch me so badly? Russian mob trying to make me take the fall for accidentally starting the Marack train on day one with fuckin two decade old video game logic?

Dafuq are you even talking about? I was always going to push you, didn't day 2 because a cop happened. I'm doing it now, your vote and time day one isn't that meaningful in the grand scheme of things but I still think it could be scum motivated and thats enough for me to push. Your suspicious don't make a lot of sense to me. You're anti Lora and now Dendrek. Dendrek's probably the most town as obtuse as he is. Lora's obviously the cop, don't get how you don't see that. It hasn't swayed me to change my vote. Soz babe.

[Nefarious Tea]

Additionally, I still think Lysah and Largehorn are most likely town, but it could be that Dendrek and Large's argument is concocted to fool us.