Christie Golden Can't Write Powerful Women

[Orby]

It's difficult to write powerful leaders who are female because they hardly exist in the real world. The ones who are always quoted to have been well designed in fiction, like Ellen Ripley, Sarah Connor or Lara Croft, basically behaved like men with boobs.

Female traits are emotion, kindness, compassion, caring. Those are not traits that make leaders though. I honestly can't think of a way to make a fictional leader behave like what we expect a woman to behave like. I guess they can keep designing men in a hot female body, because that seems to get praised.

What world do you live in?

I am in a job with female management, there are female officers leading our emergency services, police, fire department and hospitals, women are leading our troops in the army, there are female prime minsters and leaders of our world, there are more powerful women in our every day of life than ever


"hardly exist" they exist, and they show just as much authority as men do, do you think they just smile and sit there baking cakes.

[Torto]

Ciri in Witcher 3 is an amazing Character as are Yennefer, Triss and Keira.

See, I didn't like Ciri and Yennefer is a bitch, but I fell in love with Triss.

[Suluhu]

Give examples of well written female characters then, lets see it. not that it fixes any issues blizz has but you might just be holding blizz up to a standard nobody meets.

Olenna Tyrell

[Zeek Daniels]

It's a problem I see in a lot of literature unfortunately; where an author has trouble writing a powerful woman, they either write them like a man or like a petulant child. Thinking back on the three powerful women Christie Golden has had the honor of writing for, they all behave relatively the same and it's all pretty unbecoming. And now that she's working for Blizzard as a writer for the game and not just the novels, a lot of the characters have gone downhill.

#1: Tyrande Whisperwind
She was a main character in War Crimes, acting as the Alliance's prosecution against Garrosh Hellscream in his trial. She lost her temper easily, over-reacted to not getting her way, and did not at all come off as a thousands-of-years-old priestess. I'm surprised she didn't stomp her feet and slam doors, to be honest.

#2: Jaina
Jaina's had it rough for a long time, but she's always taken her duties with the Kirin Tor and Dalaran very seriously. Up until she didn't get her way in Legion and the other council members out-voted her. So she threw a fit and ran away. Can't get what I want? Then I don't want anything at all!

#3: Sylvanas
Arguably one of the most intelligent leaders (devious too!) She's also undead, and the undead have trouble feeling emotions, Sylvanas included if you read her bits in War Crimes. But suddenly she can be angered to the point of burning down her political advantage? It just seems too out-of-character for her.


Are there any other characters that have been turned into emotion-fueled children that lash out when they don't get their way? Or am I seeing patterns where there aren't any?

So your #1 choice was Tyrande? A woman who broke a man out of prison who the night elfs believed one of the worst criminals? Im sure that thousands of years led to that smart decision. Lets break out a guy who was helping the legion conquer azeroth all those years ago hoping he wont turn on you again.

Your next choice is jaina who just had her love killed as well as her people and then the council shows her no support and lets those murderers back into their city? So the manly thing to do would have been to suck it up and deal with it? Or what? No she made the right decision. If I murdered your whole family and got 25 years in prison and after 25 years i was hired by the same company you work for and you complained you couldnt work with me but they wouldnt fire me would you quit or just work along side me?

Ok first of all Sylvanas is not intelligent. Shes just back stabby. She killed her own people just for wanting to be with humans again. Shes dumb and stupid. She wanted a war she got one. Holding the night elf capital was not even a smart choice, She would have likely failed trying to hold it for some dumb reason. She wanted them to surrender by holding malfurion hostage. Yea that was dumb. Even dumber was Malfurion going alone to try and kill her. Hes not a War General hes an idiot, honestly bring back Illidan, he knows what to do to win. Malf needs to be saved time and time again.

[Deleted]

Because women should not try to be portrayed as heroes of the battle. I Imagine a powerful women as a great Priestess of Elune who can heal up her lesser soldiers and giving them lots of energy and power, so she would be in a battle indirectly, but everyone would know where is the origin of the soldiers main source of power. That would be more believable than seeing her fight in the front lines of battle.

But I won't complain about current story. I'm fine with it, I like it. The problem is that it's all over the place and someone would have to compile everything together and tell the story from start to end.

The 50's called, they want their opinions back. Women not being able to stand their ground, really? Surely they cannot fight in the frontline, they should be standing back ready to comfort and heal the brave men once those are done fighting.

[bloodmoth13]

Olenna Tyrell

ok now put her into wow and watch how people bitch that shes cowardly and weak. shes a fun character but she isnt someone id like leading my faction, she survives through subterfuge and wit, not through any overtly powerful characteristics. she honestly wouldnt work in wows setting where every main character needs to be a super hero.

[ReVnX]

Don't forget having Sylvanas slaughter her own people for the first time all for wanting to be with their living families.

More like for challenging her grip on the Forsaken/Undercity. It was a sad excuse to get rid of any of the members of the Council who did not think as she did.

[Deleted]

So your #1 choice was Tyrande? A woman who broke a man out of prison who the night elfs believed one of the worst criminals? Im sure that thousands of years led to that smart decision. Lets break out a guy who was helping the legion conquer azeroth all those years ago hoping he wont turn on you again.

Your next choice is jaina who just had her love killed as well as her people and then the council shows her no support and lets those murderers back into their city? So the manly thing to do would have been to suck it up and deal with it? Or what? No she made the right decision. If I murdered your whole family and got 25 years in prison and after 25 years i was hired by the same company you work for and you complained you couldnt work with me but they wouldnt fire me would you quit or just work along side me?

Ok first of all Sylvanas is not intelligent. Shes just back stabby. She killed her own people just for wanting to be with humans again. Shes dumb and stupid. She wanted a war she got one. Holding the night elf capital was not even a smart choice, She would have likely failed trying to hold it for some dumb reason. She wanted them to surrender by holding malfurion hostage. Yea that was dumb. Even dumber was Malfurion going alone to try and kill her. Hes not a War General hes an idiot, honestly bring back Illidan, he knows what to do to win. Malf needs to be saved time and time again.

the problem is not in the gender, it's in the characters. Garrosh, Arthas, Thrall, none have great track records for doing rational well thought out things or act on emotions when that was a really bad plan. You never hear anyone blame that on the fact they are men though.

[Deleted]

It is better that way. Both man and woman usually have flaws. There is nothing feminist about showing female characters as flawless. Writing humans like Vulcans, as in following strictly logic, makes an unbelieveable story.

[Deleted]

The 50's called, they want their opinions back. Women not being able to stand their ground, really? Surely they cannot fight in the frontline, they should be standing back ready to comfort and heal the brave men once those are done fighting.

No. Just not being a typical front line cannon fodder. Stop with your PC shit in games. Smart and powerful leaders will be in the back doing their higher level work. So what's wrong with that? It would make her into a great and powerful hero and most of all very believable. Don't you get it already? The forced way doesn't work.

[Venziir]

You're right. I agree with this. But you can be impulsive without being childish.

The biggest issue with Tyrande is, that each time we see her do something (be it in a book or ingame) she acts differently. She has no consistency whatsoever. Buuut at least, she only mudwreslted when Knaak wrote her.... Or was that Alexstraza?

[Deleted]

A powerful woman is a mother, a matriarch of a family - not a warrior.

She can't write powerful women because society has forgotten what they are.

[LoLcano]

It's a problem I see in a lot of literature unfortunately; where an author has trouble writing a powerful woman, they either write them like a man or like a petulant child. Thinking back on the three powerful women Christie Golden has had the honor of writing for, they all behave relatively the same and it's all pretty unbecoming. And now that she's working for Blizzard as a writer for the game and not just the novels, a lot of the characters have gone downhill.

#1: Tyrande Whisperwind
She was a main character in War Crimes, acting as the Alliance's prosecution against Garrosh Hellscream in his trial. She lost her temper easily, over-reacted to not getting her way, and did not at all come off as a thousands-of-years-old priestess. I'm surprised she didn't stomp her feet and slam doors, to be honest.

#2: Jaina
Jaina's had it rough for a long time, but she's always taken her duties with the Kirin Tor and Dalaran very seriously. Up until she didn't get her way in Legion and the other council members out-voted her. So she threw a fit and ran away. Can't get what I want? Then I don't want anything at all!

#3: Sylvanas
Arguably one of the most intelligent leaders (devious too!) She's also undead, and the undead have trouble feeling emotions, Sylvanas included if you read her bits in War Crimes. But suddenly she can be angered to the point of burning down her political advantage? It just seems too out-of-character for her.


Are there any other characters that have been turned into emotion-fueled children that lash out when they don't get their way? Or am I seeing patterns where there aren't any?

So she wrote them like real woman? i guess she cant write fiction .

[Deleted]

Here's some advice for Golden

[bloodmoth13]

Ciri in Witcher 3 is an amazing Character as are Yennefer, Triss and Keira.

feels rude to leave the convo hanging but i have no idea who those characters are so i cant critique it at all. so ill just ask what makes them good characters?

[Deleted]

feels rude to leave the convo hanging but i have no idea who those characters are so i cant critique it at all. so ill just ask what makes them good characters?

They're not - women warriors dont exist end of story

[Arrashi]

To be fair, most of writers with agendas fail to do so.

[Incarnia]

Christie Golden have to write about whatever Blizzard is giving her, she is NOT in position to decide plot twists and directions of the in-game story. It is not her fault Blizzard are bad at developing their games story now a days (they've been mediocre -at best- for years with this).
Remember she even had to postpone the Before the Storm novel due to Blizzard asking her to change something in the book.

[Isilarya]

What world do you live in?

I am in a job with female management, there are female officers leading our emergency services, police, fire department and hospitals, women are leading our troops in the army, there are female prime minsters and leaders of our world, there are more powerful women in our every day of life than ever


"hardly exist" they exist, and they show just as much authority as men do, do you think they just smile and sit there baking cakes.

Except thats mid tier leadership, this would be like Liadrin. Very strong but not really in a position that matters.

They are talking about global leaders ala Merkel but....Merkel lol. Definitely not anything you wanna model yourself after.

[Orby]

Except thats mid tier leadership, this would be like Liadrin. Very strong but not really in a position that matters.

They are talking about global leaders ala Merkel but....Merkel lol. Definitely not anything you wanna model yourself after.

true, same can be said with Teresa May, but still :P