To you, is Vanilla shallow or complex?

[Deleted]

RPG-wise the game was more complex. Not so much gameplay-wise. Retail WoW hardly qualifies as an RPG anymore though. I think too many quality of life Changes ruined that aspect.

[Akka]

Unless you were incredibly under-geared, or unlucky enough to get gank-camped, there was little to no danger in the open world of Vanilla once you reached level cap either.

Actually, it took some gearing to be shielded from danger, and it meant that it was a real reward, in complete opposition to current WoW where you are never in danger ever. It also meant that the entirety of leveling was really playing the game, instead of being a lapse of time where you are in auto-mode. So Vanilla much less shallow than Legion here.

[Nomads]

Because it was 14 years ago, Warcraft 3 was fresh, for most of players it was the first ever MMORPG and the it had a colossal impact. All of these "long lost RPG elements" were just in players heads, not in the game. You cannot recreate the same atmosphere and feeling just by dropping 1.12 servers (or, in this case, by any means). The time has passed, the game moved on, all that left is just nostalgia feeling.

Lol, they aren't in people's heads. They're literally in the game... You've clearly forgotten.

[Guardian Bob]

To some, it’s a completely barebones and shallow version of the game, lacking many fundamental elements added on in the later expansions (like achievements, various QoL changes like the mount tab and autoloot etc). Basic kill quests, horrible itemization, simple boss-fights (mechanically) and so on...

I don't like achievements, cause they take away what really matters. If you've done something awesome, you should have the loot for it. When you walk around Iron Forge and you see someone with T2 or T3, you know immediately they did something awesome. Gotta ask someone to link their achievement which is just a check box that says you did this.

Mount tabs are the result of how many mounts retail WoW has added over the years, which isn't a problem in Vanilla WoW. Autoloot can be had with a mod. Retail WoW quests haven't really changed since Vanilla. If you think the boss fights are simple then get to Naxx and clear it.

What’s your thoughts?

Retail WoW has because a casual play ground that's a hollow shell of Vanilla's glory days. It's a shame too cause Vanilla does have it's flaws, but if I had to choose, Vanilla is better by a mile. When you get to AQ40, you'll see that the mechanics do get complex. Not as complex as retail, but enough to offer a challenge.

[quite an expert in wow]

Irrelevant.

What matters is do I enjoy the game, like I enjoyed the game before? Yes, I do.

Also, it really bothers me when someone creates a thread and doesn't give their own opinion on the matter.

[Kynario]

Irrelevant.

What matters is do I enjoy the game, like I enjoyed the game before? Yes, I do.

Also, it really bothers me when someone creates a thread and doesn't give their own opinion on the matter.

I did give my opinion, I just didn't force it in the original post... why should anyone care about what I think? I'm the one who is interested in the opinions of others - hence the reason I created this thread.

And you're right - ultimately, what matters is your own subjective experience and what it means to you.

To me Vanilla is shallow mechanically and also because I already: a) know how to play the game, b) have explored all there is to explore in the old world, c) have experienced almost all (save the hardcore raids which don't appeal to me) that Vanilla has to offer. The classes feel broken and shallow tool-kit and rotation wise to me too. So for me, re-experiencing it again wouldn't be all that interesting. That said, it's immensely complex with regards to its RPG elements, like having to travel to dungeons, visiting trainers to upgrade spell ranks, using buffs/potions/lock-picking/relics and so on. Thus Vanilla is incredibly immersive in this sense to me, plus of course, sheer nostalgia.

[quite an expert in wow]

I did give my opinion, I just didn't force it in the original post... why should anyone care about what I think? I'm the one who is interested in the opinions of others - hence the reason I created this thread.

And you're right - ultimately, what matters is your own subjective experience and what it means to you.

To me Vanilla is shallow mechanically and also because I already: a) know how to play the game, b) have explored all there is to explore in the old world, c) have experienced almost all (save the hardcore raids which don't appeal to me) that Vanilla has to offer. So for me, re-experiencing it again wouldn't be all that interesting. That said, it's immensely complex with regards to its RPG elements, like having to travel to dungeons, visiting trainers to upgrade spell ranks, using buffs/potions/lock-picking/relics and so on. Thus Vanilla is incredibly immersive in this sense to me, plus of course, sheer nostalgia.

cool but do you enjoy the current game and if not, why do you still play it?

[Kynario]

cool but do you enjoy the current game and if not, why do you still play it?

I do enjoy it personally, but I have to admit that it's fundamentally a completely different game to what Vanilla was and I completely understand the appeal for Vanilla/Classic servers.

I think it's completely fair that people are allowed to play the version of the game they prefer the most. When Vanilla servers are released I'll definitely give it a try again

[quite an expert in wow]

I do enjoy it personally, but I have to admit that it's fundamentally a completely different game to what Vanilla was and I completely understand the appeal for Vanilla/Classic servers.

I think it's completely fair that people are allowed to play the version of the game they prefer the most. When Vanilla servers are released and I'll definitely give it a try again

Exactly the same for me.

[kaintk]

vanilla was just a whole game to discover, step by step, without all the info we have today, without all those addon, everyone was a noob, evryone had to discover everything

THAT IS THE DIFFERENCE

when vanilla will be live again, people expecting to have this again will be so dissapointed because nothing left to discover, addon will be there to help us on everything, big guild will rush everything and rush people for gold after only a few weeks , and the hype will die by himself;p

[asylum151]

To me it's more complex, there was no real convenience back then, you had to worry about farming resistance gear just to do some raids, The quests weren't just accept and head to the red circle, there were a lot of quests taken out for the sake of convenience, like to learn the resurrection spell for paladin you had to go to that little stone circle area south of goldshire and find a dead guy and use it on him. Druids also had to go through hoops to learn their different forms iirc. A lot of things were complex and annoying but when it came to gameplay it was shallow and boring most of the time.

[Yesyesyesyes]

Depends on your definition of it shallow & complex
I think it's shallow in terms of gameplay, raiding, etc it's all very easy there's no challenging content at all despite what the "Vanilla is so hard" crowd will tell you (especially kids who play pservers and take weeks to hit 60)

Vanilla is mostly just tedious but it's fun, I'm a bit burnt from pservers so I'm hoping by the time Classic is out I have motivation to play

[Kynario]

Depends on your definition of it shallow & complex
I think it's shallow in terms of gameplay, raiding, etc it's all very easy there's no challenging content at all despite what the "Vanilla is so hard" crowd will tell you (especially kids who play pservers and take weeks to hit 60)

Vanilla is mostly just tedious but it's fun, I'm a bit burnt from pservers so I'm hoping by the time Classic is out I have motivation to play

Pretty much what you've said

In my eyes it's very tedious, broken at times, and imbalanced. The developers and players were both inexperienced at the time. That said, some RPG elements (like: travelling to dungeons by foot and summoning people, visiting trainers to upgrade spell ranks, using buffs/potions/lock-picking/relics etc.) definitely added a lot of immersion

[stomination]

Honestly, I can see where people will feel that it is Shallow game-play mainly because the Mechanics of Boss Fights when compared to current Mythic Design are virtually like doing LFR.

However, the game in my opinion is very complex due to the way the Statistics in the game worked with your character it was infinitely customizable in ways that the developers couldn't even fathom upon creation. Some of these factors worked their way into BC where for the most part they had an understanding of how most stats worked or had changes how they worked with specific Classes and Abilities.

Example:

DPS Warriors using a fair amount of leather for the secondary stats to maximize damage.


Personally I feel the game overall is of a higher difficulty in terms of encounter design today, but I do very much miss the games former Server Communities versus the Modern Cross-Realm.

And you would just find that stuff out on the internet.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Vanilla isn't a complex game mechanically. I mean most classes can do a rotation of 111211121112 for the most part. The really 'complex' classes are 111211131112. Where it was more complex boiled down to having to interact with people. People are complex. Now a day you can do every quest without talking to a person. In vanilla just about every zone had end of the zone quests that pretty much required you to get with 1 or 2 people to complete unless you over leveled or geared it. To do instances and raids you had to talk with people. You also had reputation to worry about. If you rampantly ninja looted from people you would get known and black listed.

[sixeph]

I'm not looking forward to raiding, but having never done it and it being the only version I have not played, I want to do it. But I've always heard stories about how it was just getting enough warm bodies to do most of the content.

I believe this quote sums up why I'm so excited however -

Everything else whilst not being complex is more than just involving. From 1-60 you're constantly decision making because you want to level up quickly, you want better gear and you also want Gold, the path to achieving all these is not linear.

There is an adventure involved with the pace and decisions that are in the original 1-60 that are no where to be found in modern WoW. Leveling now is absolutely boring and there is no sense of danger.

Places like STV were absolute terrors because you were not only trying not to aggro too many mobs, but you were also trying not to die to the opposing faction.

Needing gold and obtaining gear mattered while leveling, because your levels were slow and you were going to keep some of that gear for weeks.

You can't recreate this need for the basics when you have every toon at max level. Even carrots such as abilities are few and far between as well as talents. It's an overly extended trial period before you can actually play the game. Back then, leveling was a lot of the game.

I don't know how else to explain it other than I'm excited to start over and have nothing, in a world where getting stuff can take dedication and patience.

[Soon-TM]

It was simpler as far as raids were concerned. But it was more complex everywhere else.

Still, it really felt more like an adventure, and the RP part of MMORPG was strong. Today's WoW feels like a glorified arcade shooter, and little else.

[Nomads]

It was simpler as far as raids were concerned. But it was more complex everywhere else.

Still, it really felt more like an adventure, and the RP part of MMORPG was strong. Today's WoW feels like a glorified arcade shooter, and little else.

This sums it up nicely. Vanilla was more fun for some people because of the RP elements. Retail is more fun for the people who just wanted to get to max level and teleport in and out of everything they wanted to do.

The two will always be popular for these two reasons... I wouldn't be surprised if a large number of people played the both at the same time. Retail doesn't require a huge commitment, so its easy to log in, do some LFR stuff, then go back to leveling in Classic.

[Digitalspork]

And you would just find that stuff out on the internet.

You're not wrong but the communities we have even online today are much more robust and nearly instantaneous compared to before. Today is a much different story obviously.

[kamuimac]

Title: Is Vanilla complex or shallow in your eyes?

To some, it’s a completely barebones and shallow version of the game, lacking many fundamental elements added on in the later expansions (like achievements, various QoL changes like the mount tab and autoloot etc). Basic kill quests, horrible itemization, simple boss-fights (mechanically) and so on...

To others, it’s an immensely complex game with long lost RPG elements.

People seem to be really divided on this. I wonder why.

What’s your thoughts?

my thought is :

a)60% of people starting to level up due to hype will quit by the time they reach level 30

b)90% will stop leveling anywhere between level 40-50.

and then blizzard will pull a stunt called "if you farmed up transmog in vanilla you will have it in retail" - so there will be always people leveling/gearing up to farm t3.