"Lordaeron Is Ours" - Does Anduin Have Any Right To Claim This? *SPOILERS*

[Deleted]

In the Battle of Lordaeron, in that critical scene in the throne room where the Alliance confront Sylvanas, Anduin says "Lordaeron is ours" and it got me wondering this as a critical question:

Does Anduin have any right to claim this? Is he right?

As I understand the lore, the Forsaken were former humans of Lordaeron who fought for the Alliance against the Scourge and they still are now as Forsaken. Being undead does not change their heritage or their history or the land they fought and died for. So as far as I can tell, Lordaeron was their's in life and is still in death now. Just because they are now firmly aligned with the Horde, it does not change anything about their rightful ownership and connection to that land just because it is inconvenient and offensive to the Alliance for the Forsaken to exist at all.

On the other hand, was Anduin merely stating it in the context that (as far he knew) the Alliance had won the battle of Lordaeron purely as a battle in of itself, and not making any cultural, heritage-based claim to the land itself? How do other people interpret this statement?

[Accendor]

for me it was clearly the second one
he only talked about the battle.

[Kwento]

The only thing Anduin has to do is say that he’s acting on behalf of Calia, who has more rights to Lordaeron then Sylvanas ever did. But that’s legally speaking. How many actual people of Lordaeron want Calia as their ruler?

[Aucald]

In this case, it kind of boils down to "right of conquest," really. He has no legal claim to the land, no; and his attack would (from the perspective of the Forsaken) constitute an alien invading force taking their sovereign territory by force of arms. But considering there's no higher court to check him (or that would check him in all likelihood, given the givens) then there's nothing really stopping him from doing so. But no, he can't make a claim through heritage, lineage, or compact - his declaration is purely from conquest over its defenders, such as it is.

[Qualia]

In the Battle of Lordaeron, in that critical scene in the throne room where the Alliance confront Sylvanas, Anduin says "Lordaeron is ours" and it got me wondering this as a critical question:

Does Anduin have any right to claim this? Is he right?

I believe he was simply stating that the Alliance had won and taken over Lordaeron. Given that he and the Alliance just removed the Horde army from Lordaeron, yes, he had all the rights to claim it.

[ls-]

Does Anduin have any right to claim this?

Yes. He kinda conquered it, so rule of conquest is applicable here... That's basically how Sylvanas became its rightful ruler as well.

[Cradyz]

Pretty sure his context was the battle. Wasn't the capital city refered to as lordaeron aswell?

But as for rights and legal claims, I think it's better to look at the Kingdom of Lordaeron as defuct. It's rulers are dead, there is no remnant of the former state to speak of. All vestiges of this state were destroyed. The land for a time belonged to nobody (at least no state). Sylvanas and her Forsaken now occupy the land. She doesn't call herself the queen of Lordaeron, she doesn't continue the former kingdom, the forsaken just live where that kingdom used to be. Sure the title still exists and Calia is free to claim it and the lands associated with it, but that doesn't matter considering popular support of actual lordaeron citizens, though now undead they are still autonomous people, lies with the successor forsaken state. Anduin, being king of an entirely different kingdom, has no claim on it. He can support Calia's claim with military might, but it would not be his claim.

[Niwes]

i think op is in both points right.

to me lordaeron is for the ppl that lived there. some could flee before scourge. most are now undead, but nothing else changed.

to me its like op said and anduin just used it in the context of „we succesfully conquered this place“.

[Lupinemancer]

He has more rights to it then an undead Elf.
The Forsaken are, in case you missed it, DEAD, meaning they technically have no rights for anything. The still-living inhabitants of Lordaeron are the ones who has the right for Lordaeron, not the dead ones.

[The Stormbringer]

You're forgetting all the living survivors of Lordaeron who fled south to Stormwind, and y'know, Calia Menethil the surviving heir to the royal line of Lordaeron.

[Clone]

Only by right of conquest.

[Schattenlied]

In the Battle of Lordaeron, in that critical scene in the throne room where the Alliance confront Sylvanas, Anduin says "Lordaeron is ours" and it got me wondering this as a critical question:

Does Anduin have any right to claim this? Is he right?

As I understand the lore, the Forsaken were former humans of Lordaeron who fought for the Alliance against the Scourge and they still are now as Forsaken. Being undead does not change their heritage or their history or the land they fought and died for. So as far as I can tell, Lordaeron was their's in life and is still in death now. Just because they are now firmly aligned with the Horde, it does not change anything about their rightful ownership and connection to that land just because it is inconvenient and offensive to the Alliance for the Forsaken to exist at all.

On the other hand, was Anduin merely stating it in the context that (as far he knew) the Alliance had won the battle of Lordaeron purely as a battle in of itself, and not making any cultural, heritage-based claim to the land itself? How do other people interpret this statement?

For one, there's plenty of living refugees from Lordaeron living in the Alliance... Secondly, Sylvanas, an Elf, had no claim to it either, but she took it anyways.

[Shampro]

I mean right by conquest is a thing in Azeroth. ''Technically'' he has no right to it, but it was well...before it was blighted to oblivion, conquered by them.

[Cradyz]

I believe it was originally just called "the capital" or something along those lines; vague enough for your interpretation of it to work. However, in the pre-scenario quest, Anduin specifically says the Alliance is going to reclaim what is rightfully theirs.

I'm itching to make a comparison between the nazis and the alliance when it comes to claiming land of another state that is 'rightfully theirs' because of being the land of 'their people'. But I won't. *cough* sudetenland *cough*

[Deleted]

Yes. It is called Right of Conquest.

Conquest, in international law, the acquisition of territory through force, especially by a victorious state in a war at the expense of a defeated state. An effective conquest takes place when physical appropriation of territory (annexation) is followed by “subjugation” (i.e., the legal process of transferring title).

as found on https://www.britannica.com/topic/con...ernational-law

Not that Azeroth operates under international laws of our world, but in fantasy settings like these, things like this are assumed unless explicitly proven false.

[GreenJesus]

He has more rights to it then an undead Elf.
The Forsaken are, in case you missed it, DEAD, meaning they technically have no rights for anything. The still-living inhabitants of Lordaeron are the ones who has the right for Lordaeron, not the dead ones.

You just proved Sylvanas' point. You don't consider people who can think and move and exist as "living" therefore they don't deserve anything. That is why there will never be peace.

[ls-]

Sure the title still exists and Calia is free to claim it and the lands associated with it, but that doesn't matter considering popular support of actual lordaeron citizens, though now undead they are still autonomous people, lies with the successor forsaken state. Anduin, being king of an entirely different kingdom, has no claim on it. He can support Calia's claim with military might, but it would not be his claim.

Eh? That's not how it works. When Sylvanas conquered Lordaeron for the Forsaken, she became its rightful ruler, and all previous lines of succession went out of the window. That's how even our world worked until fairly recently.

So for Calia to actually claim anything, she'd have to conquer it first.

[Clone]

I believe it was originally just called "the capital" or something along those lines; vague enough for your interpretation of it to work. However, in the pre-scenario quest, Anduin specifically says the Alliance is going to reclaim what is rightfully theirs.

Just because he said it doesn't make it true.

[McFuu]

No one has claim to Lordearon
The former residence died or fled. The Forsaken, while sort of being the "dead" former residents, have been forever changed, so they might as well be new caretakers.
Calia has no claim to the throne, the alive humans fled and have up their right to the land. The Forsaken, while not through some "birth right", took back the land and settled it.
It's Forsaken land until some one takes it from them.
Post BoL, the land is unclaimed again, Forsaken gave up their right while fleeing, and Anduin never took Lordearon, he was last seen fleeing.
Lordearon is open to those who could claim it.

[Niroshi]

He brought an army and took it, so yes.

Calia will always have a claim to the throne. She's the only heir to that throne regardless of who lives there or what has happened to it. The only issue is can she take it.