1. #8141
    Epic! Makabreska's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Orbis Terrarum
    Posts
    1,526
    Quote Originally Posted by Elias01 View Post
    Does video shows all preparation and everything els prio to this kill? Becouse thats also what makes classic raids fun. You dont have to do that in LFR. Just press 1 button and afk win.
    Ah yes, preparation. "Ok guys, everyone got fire res gear? Fuck sake Johnny, told you to get it! Never mind. Ok guys, buffs up! Johnny, start blessing us. Potions and food, please. <5 min later> Ok let's pull! <after a wipe> Goddamn this corpse run, why it has to be so far away? Wait, what? Trash re-spawned already? Oh well, let's clear."

    YES MAN, RAID PREPARATION WAS SO MUCH FUN IN VANILLA.

    You are just making a fool out of yourself right now.
    Last edited by Makabreska; 2019-06-13 at 07:27 PM.
    Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing...

  2. #8142
    Quote Originally Posted by Queen of Hamsters View Post
    Mythic also offers the best possible gear, titles, mounts, FOS.

    If your motivation to raid is killed by others having access to watered down versions of the content with watered down rewards, your motivation wasn't all that much to begin with, and it is in fact about your ego.

    It's not the same content. Mythic requires a team where every player carries his weight, LFR can be completed with mouthbreathers.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Delusion is kinda his expertise, it would seem. "People who want Classic don't play BfA at all", what utter ignorance.
    Yeah and? Is there new boss? New lore? Completly new enviroment? No there isnt = it isnt new content. Imagine putting 1000× more effort into mythic for mount what will have no value next expansion, or gear what will get completly reseted in 8.2, or FoS what nobady carea about becouse it has no visual represenation. It is just hidden bar in your interface.
    Last edited by Elias01; 2019-06-13 at 07:26 PM.

  3. #8143
    Epic! Makabreska's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Orbis Terrarum
    Posts
    1,526
    Quote Originally Posted by Elias01 View Post
    Yeah and? Is there new boss? New lore? Completly new enviroment? No there isnt = it isnt new content.
    And once again, that is ONLY your opinion. You can deny it how much you want it, you can pretend you speak on behalf of others. But what you say is only your personal opinion.
    Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing...

  4. #8144
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Ah yes, preparation. "Ok guys, everyone got fire res gear? Fuck sake Johnny, told you to get it! Never mind. Ok guys, buffs up! Johnny start blessing us. Potions and food, please. <5 min later> Ok let's pull! <after a wipe> Goddamn this corpse run, why it has to be so far away? Wait, what? Trash re-spawned already? Oh well, let's clear."

    YES MAN, RAID PREPARATION WAS SO MUCH FUN IN VANILLA.

    You are just making a fool out of yourself right now.
    Yes it actualy was. It is what made vannila rpg game. It just seema you dont like rpg games. You just want hop in finish inatance and hope out. Thats not what rpgs are about.

  5. #8145
    Epic! Makabreska's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Orbis Terrarum
    Posts
    1,526
    Quote Originally Posted by Elias01 View Post
    Yes it actualy was. It is what made vannila rpg game. It just seema you dont like rpg games. You just want hop in finish inatance and hope out. Thats not what rpgs are about.
    And you are mistaking major inconveniences and shallow design with being a "true RPG". But once again, people are slowly realizing how Vanilla really looked like.
    Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing...

  6. #8146
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    And once again, that is ONLY your opinion. You can deny it how much you want it, you can pretend you speak on behalf of others. But what you say is only your personal opinion.
    Thats not my opinion. Do some reaserch. Read some articles from def or watch youtube. New difficulty was never consideret as new content in gaming industry. Never.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    And you are mistaking major inconveniences and shallow design with being a "true RPG".
    No i dont. You jave no clue whay rpgs are about.

  7. #8147
    The Unstoppable Force Queen of Hamsters's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    In the #1, Azeroth!
    Posts
    24,319
    Quote Originally Posted by Elias01 View Post
    Yeah and? Is there new boss? New lore? Completly new enviroment? No there isnt = it isnt new content. Imagine putting 1000× more effort into mythic for mount what will have no value next expansion, or gear what will get completly reseted in 8.2, or FoS what nobady carea about becouse it has no visual represenation. It is just hidden bar in your interface.
    It's not the same content neither. You're basically trying to argue that a Rolls Royce and a Beetle is the same thing, because they're cars. 1 is considerably more prestigous, harder to come by and rarer.

    You have exactly the mentality of players that WOULD settle for shit aimed at the lowest common denominator though, and that's your right. But others will never consider LFR to be real raiding, and will strive for more. And they'll be rewarded accordingly, always having the latest titles, best gear, rare mounts etc.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Elias01 View Post
    Yeah they farm. And whem they get it is like yaaay new mount now what? Just another instant gratification what will fade in 5 minutes. You dont even see people use those mounts becouse people know there is nothong special about them. I saw Hazel reaction when ahe drop direhorn from Throne of Thunder. She was like "ok" mount it and wasnt even like excited at all. Completly hollow reward.
    .
    Hazel has always been clear that she wasn't too excited for that mount. Nice way to cherrypick.
    She's been far more excited for others. I was in a group where the zombie raptor dropped, and the guy that won the roll cheered out loud.

    People play BfA right now and have a blast too. These forums are never not a pool of rampant negativity where the current expansion always sucks. Must be a year beginning in 20.

    Let's see how excited people are for already 15 year old content when it's been out for a year. Already people suggest that new content should be added. That'll be multiplied by the hundreds.
    Last edited by Queen of Hamsters; 2019-06-13 at 08:59 PM.
    Classic WoW is 10% gameplay and 90% talking about "how much better it is than Retail WoW" in in-game chats, Youtube Videos, Twitch or ALL the forums.

  8. #8148
    Unlike some people, I don't think BfA is a total disaster. (Now WoD? That was.) BfA just suffers from bad decisions and coming on the heels of Legion. I figure in the long run it'll be counted as more akin to Cata than WoD. Controversial and messy, but not complete trash. One of the stories from BfA that I actually really did like was Jaina's.

  9. #8149
    Quote Originally Posted by Queen of Hamsters View Post
    It quite literally hasn't. There's been a lack of news, nothing more.
    How much news do you want them to give us? Full class changes every day? They've been releasing plenty of news, raid tests, M+ testing, etc. There hasn't been a lack of news, Classic has just been more dominant from non-Blizzard sources

  10. #8150
    The Undying Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Jaina Proudmoore's side. Always and forever.
    Posts
    38,813
    True RPG......You can't do all the design decisions most RPgs have when you add to a MMO and let alone I haven't seen people describe what mechanics that is. Doing a lot of raid prep isn't RPG esque. That seems to be more of Raiding culture if anything(It's not bad but it isn't some big RPG thing).
    #TeamLegion

    Paladin-Sorcerer at your service! My Youtube Channel https://www.youtube.com/user/Aeluron

  11. #8151
    Are we still in the 8.2+ speculation thread ?

  12. #8152
    Quote Originally Posted by Queen of Hamsters View Post
    Mythic also offers the best possible gear, titles, mounts, FOS.

    If your motivation to raid is killed by others having access to watered down versions of the content with watered down rewards, your motivation wasn't all that much to begin with, and it is in fact about your ego.

    It's not the same content. Mythic requires a team where every player carries his weight, LFR can be completed with mouthbreathers.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Delusion is kinda his expertise, it would seem. "People who want Classic don't play BfA at all", what utter ignorance.
    So this isn’t true at all, at least not fully. You can complete mythic at a cutting edge level with 2-3 carries. Do you think the world 1500 guilds clearing Jaina after she got obliterated by nerfs are an entire guild of good players? They aren’t. Hell a guild on my server practically 19 manned Jaina pre-nerf, so you don’t need this amazing coordinated team of 20. You can have some slackers and still win. That isn’t my problem though I’m just pointing this out. This isn’t to say mythic is easy either, it isn’t.

    As for mythic, it’s very unrewarding. The only thing I’d personally want or suggest is a seasonal reward for both cutting edge players and the +15 or +20 all dungeon mythic+ achievement. This provides something that’s actually unique to killing the bosses early on. Right now, everything from mythic is farmable after 2, 3 or 5 years. The seasonal reward can be anything from a title to a mount to a transmog, as long as it’s just something unique to those players putting in all that effort. Obviously if you aren’t a CE player or a high level m+ player you probably wouldn’t want these rewards added because you couldn’t get them and that’s fine but not a fair argument. Pvp has a seasonal tabard, Mount, transmog and title, I think it’s fair to give pve at least 1 seasonal cosmetic item.

    Yes, the challenge is 100% addicting and very fun but that doesn’t mean mythic is rewarding, it doesn’t have anything to do with the reward structure at all so saying “do it for the challenge or don’t do it” is a bit ridiculous to me.

    For the record I don’t think lfr should be removed. Id prefer if it was never added but since it is it should definitely stay. I don’t think having 4 raid difficulties is the worst thing either. Raiding in general has gotten so much harder over the years it’d be dumb to assume mythic being the only difficulty available would help the game, it would kill it if anything. There may be other solutions that don’t involve 4 raid difficulties but I can’t think of any off the top of my head.
    Last edited by Taeldorian; 2019-06-13 at 10:15 PM.

  13. #8153
    The Unstoppable Force Queen of Hamsters's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    In the #1, Azeroth!
    Posts
    24,319
    Quote Originally Posted by Th3Scourge View Post
    How much news do you want them to give us? Full class changes every day? They've been releasing plenty of news, raid tests, M+ testing, etc. There hasn't been a lack of news, Classic has just been more dominant from non-Blizzard sources
    All things that we know are coming, it's not "news" per sé.
    Classic = a re-release of content that's been unavailable unless you partake in private servers, people are anxious to learn what it'll be about and naturally, it's big news.

    Come back when it's time for the next expansion reveal and such.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Taeldorian View Post
    So this isn’t true at all, at least not fully. You can complete mythic at a cutting edge level with 2-3 carries. Do you think the world 1500 guilds clearing Jaina after she got obliterated by nerfs are an entire guild of good players? They aren’t. Hell a guild on my server practically 19 manned Jaina pre-nerf, so you don’t need this amazing coordinated team of 20. You can have some slackers and still win. That isn’t my problem though I’m just pointing this out. This isn’t to say mythic is easy either, it isn’t.

    As for mythic, it’s very unrewarding. The only thing I’d personally want or suggest is a seasonal reward for both cutting edge players and the +15 or +20 all dungeon mythic+ achievement. This provides something that’s actually unique to killing the bosses early on. Right now, everything from mythic is farmable after 2, 3 or 5 years. The seasonal reward can be anything from a title to a mount to a transmog, as long as it’s just something unique to those players putting in all that effort. Obviously if you aren’t a CE player or a high level m+ player you probably wouldn’t want these rewards added because you couldn’t get them and that’s fine but not a fair argument. Pvp has a seasonal tabard, Mount, transmog and title, I think it’s fair to give pve at least 1 seasonal cosmetic item.

    Yes, the challenge is 100% addicting and very fun but that doesn’t mean mythic is rewarding, it doesn’t have anything to do with the reward structure at all so saying “do it for the challenge or don’t do it” is a bit ridiculous to me.

    For the record I don’t think lfr should be removed. Id prefer if it was never added but since it is it should definitely stay. I don’t think having 4 raid difficulties is the worst thing either. Raiding in general has gotten so much harder over the years it’d be dumb to assume mythic being the only difficulty available would help the game, it would kill it if anything. There may be other solutions that don’t involve 4 raid difficulties but I can’t think of any off the top of my head.
    As opposed to Classic raids where 15 average players could carry 25. Just sayin'. Guilds that have killed it carrying a few (usual number is 2) is one thing, carrying 2 players when it's still progress? No.

    As for the rewards, it's still a hell of a lot more rewarding both to conquer and in what it gives the character than LFR. I use LFR to gear alts for old content runs, not to feel that I've beat the fights.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    True RPG......You can't do all the design decisions most RPgs have when you add to a MMO and let alone I haven't seen people describe what mechanics that is. Doing a lot of raid prep isn't RPG esque. That seems to be more of Raiding culture if anything(It's not bad but it isn't some big RPG thing).
    They just claim the term to try and jab at the game. It's an MMORPG for a fact, regardless of what arbitrary features some individual suffering from ex-partner syndrome feels.

    I'm sure every game belonging to a genre has people falling out of love with it and trying to rationalize it with "it moved away from being a TRUE RPG/FPS/ARPG/RTS/MOBA" ad nauseam.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Xu Sheng View Post
    Are we still in the 8.2+ speculation thread ?
    It's been slow af with any actual news.
    Probably on its last breath since 8.2 will be coming out, so either renaming the thread or making a new one will follow.
    Classic WoW is 10% gameplay and 90% talking about "how much better it is than Retail WoW" in in-game chats, Youtube Videos, Twitch or ALL the forums.

  14. #8154
    Quote Originally Posted by Queen of Hamsters View Post
    All things that we know are coming, it's not "news" per sé.
    Classic = a re-release of content that's been unavailable unless you partake in private servers, people are anxious to learn what it'll be about and naturally, it's big news.

    Come back when it's time for the next expansion reveal and such.

    - - - Updated - - -



    As opposed to Classic raids where 15 average players could carry 25. Just sayin'. Guilds that have killed it carrying a few (usual number is 2) is one thing, carrying 2 players when it's still progress? No.

    As for the rewards, it's still a hell of a lot more rewarding both to conquer and in what it gives the character than LFR. I use LFR to gear alts for old content runs, not to feel that I've beat the fights.
    I mean sure it’s more rewarding than lfr but all the rewards can be obtained solo in the next expansion or even with a team of 4-5 friends. If you’re an lfr player you can just que for lfr, see the raid and then get all the mounts/transmog later from mythic. I’m talking about rewards for cutting edge/mythic+ 15, beyond an achievement there’s nothing. Pvp has a pretty good system of rewards, maybe a bit too much but they’ve got a seasonal mount, tabard, title and transmog. That’s a lot to work for, I think it’d benefit pve to have something similar.

    And yes, classic raids were way more casual friendly. Bad players could easily get accepted into raids because people needed to fill their group. You could carry half the raid as long as they pushed a button or two. Plenty of guilds nowadays still carry people during progress, it happens plenty around the world 1000-1500 level of mythic, it’s just not nearly as many getting carried as back in the day. Same shit happened in Wrath, if you couldn’t fill to 25 but had 21-22 you’d just grab whoever you could.
    Last edited by Taeldorian; 2019-06-13 at 10:50 PM.

  15. #8155
    The Unstoppable Force Queen of Hamsters's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    In the #1, Azeroth!
    Posts
    24,319
    Quote Originally Posted by Taeldorian View Post
    I mean sure it’s more rewarding than lfr but all the rewards can be obtained solo in the next expansion or even with a team of 4-5 friends. If you’re an lfr player you can just que for lfr, see the raid and then get all the mounts/transmog later from mythic. I’m talking about rewards for cutting edge/mythic+ 15, beyond an achievement there’s nothing. Pvp has a pretty good system of rewards, maybe a bit too much but they’ve got a seasonal mount, tabard, title and transmog. That’s a lot to work for, I think it’d benefit pve to have something similar.
    But that's just it.
    Some people are happy to wait and get the things when they're trivial, when everyone can get them.
    Others are, evidently, driven enough to do the content whilst current, whilst it requires something more. The rewards are one reason, the prestige/experience is another. Some rewards are even limited time only now with titles, and I'm sure soon enough, mounts.

    And that's fine. It's also fine that there's a kindergarten mode, where players see the raids but put no actual effort into it, giving them some max level progression and making sure enough people see the assets to justify the development resources put into raiding. People on these forums can proclaim that "it isn't rewarding enough!" all the way to the moon and back, yet organized raiding remains. Clearly, people care enough to pursue the content beyond the difficulty tailored for the very bottom of the crowd in terms of drive. Mythic raiding is made for the 1%, and clearly it's been a pull ever since MoP's end.

    It reminds me, during MoP there were people busy moaning about CM's "not being rewarding enough to motivate them", yet others were busy doing the dungeons, some of us with every.single.class. And we got the rewards, and the players moaning instead of doing, went without.
    Last edited by Queen of Hamsters; 2019-06-13 at 10:59 PM.
    Classic WoW is 10% gameplay and 90% talking about "how much better it is than Retail WoW" in in-game chats, Youtube Videos, Twitch or ALL the forums.

  16. #8156
    Pit Lord FlubberPuddy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    California, USA
    Posts
    2,371
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    True RPG......You can't do all the design decisions most RPgs have when you add to a MMO and let alone I haven't seen people describe what mechanics that is. Doing a lot of raid prep isn't RPG esque. That seems to be more of Raiding culture if anything(It's not bad but it isn't some big RPG thing).
    I mean "RPG" has kinda lost its meaning when games like GTA are described as an RPG simply because "you play a role".

    I think "True RPG" refers to the set classes (aka roles) and then manipulating stats/abilities/gear etc of that character into something individualized to you (or copy pasted from another). So in essence, deep character customization.

    Take the new Assassin's Creed games for instance (playing through the series right now), before AC Origins and Odyssey, the previous games were defined as stealth/action/adventure games, but not RPG. Because they didn't include "RPG mechanics" before the ones in 2017 and 2018. Well it can be argued Unity and Syndicate included some "stats" and such, but not to the extent of letting you pick talent points and such as in the 17/18 releases.

    So that's how I see a "True RPG" , but everyone has been starting to have their own definition. But survival games have the whole "gather resources" bit, that's not unique to RPGs, going on adventures/quests happens in many action and adventure games as well - not unique to RPGs, and tons of games have you playing "roles" such as Uncharted series, etc.

    But often the conventional "RPG" label is put when there's deep character customization. Like I don't see people conventionally recommending Sims when someone asks for an RPG game, since it's a "simulation game".

    - - - Updated - - -

    Sorry for long response on a small comment. I just love that topic of discussion, "what makes a game an RPG?". Would love to hear more on the subject from others.

  17. #8157
    Quote Originally Posted by Queen of Hamsters View Post
    But that's just it.
    Some people are happy to wait and get the things when they're trivial, when everyone can get them.
    Others are, evidently, driven enough to do the content whilst current, whilst it requires something more. The rewards are one reason, the prestige/experience is another. Some rewards are even limited time only now with titles, and I'm sure soon enough, mounts.

    And that's fine. It's also fine that there's a kindergarten mode, where players see the raids but put no actual effort into it, giving them some max level progression and making sure enough people see the assets to justify the development resources put into raiding. People on these forums can proclaim that "it isn't rewarding enough!" all the way to the moon and back, yet organized raiding remains. Clearly, people care enough to pursue the content beyond the difficulty tailored for the very bottom of the crowd in terms of drive. Mythic raiding is made for the 1%, and clearly it's been a pull ever since MoP's end.

    It reminds me, during MoP there were people busy moaning about CM's "not being rewarding enough to motivate them", yet others were busy doing the dungeons, some of us with every.single.class. And we got the rewards, and the players moaning instead of doing, went without.
    Yeah I don’t advocate for the removal of lfr so make sure you aren’t lumping me up with those posters. I don’t care if there’s a tourist mode or whatever you wanna call it.

    MoP CMs are a perfect example of seasonal content. The season was the entire expansion but that’s fine too. Rewards that become unique are, imo, a fantastic motivator for a lot of players. MoP CMs, WoD CMs and the mage tower are all great examples of this. This is basically what I’m asking for but for cutting edge and mythic+. That doesn’t mean there can’t be unique rewards for casuals either though akin to the mage tower.

    Also, there’s no time limited title from raiding. The only time limited thing raiding ever gets is 1 AoTC Mount from the last (?) raid of the expansion. I think this is great and wanna see a bit more of it for raiding. I’m driven to pursue cutting edge due to the challenge but being rewarded for that challenge would be cool too. It’s not like I’m demanding this or anything I just think it’d be cool to see.

  18. #8158
    The Unstoppable Force Queen of Hamsters's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    In the #1, Azeroth!
    Posts
    24,319
    Quote Originally Posted by Taeldorian View Post
    Yeah I don’t advocate for the removal of lfr so make sure you aren’t lumping me up with those posters. I don’t care if there’s a tourist mode or whatever you wanna call it.

    MoP CMs are a perfect example of seasonal content. The season was the entire expansion but that’s fine too. Rewards that become unique are, imo, a fantastic motivator for a lot of players. MoP CMs, WoD CMs and the mage tower are all great examples of this. This is basically what I’m asking for but for cutting edge and mythic+. That doesn’t mean there can’t be unique rewards for casuals either though akin to the mage tower.

    Also, there’s no time limited title from raiding. The only time limited thing raiding ever gets is 1 AoTC Mount from the last (?) raid of the expansion. I think this is great and wanna see a bit more of it for raiding. I’m driven to pursue cutting edge due to the challenge but being rewarded for that challenge would be cool too. It’s not like I’m demanding this or anything I just think it’d be cool to see.
    Nono, not lumping you with them, never would!

    There is however limited-time rewards, the titles you can only get if you're part of the first 100 guilds (of your faction or total, I forget) to kill the boss.
    In the end, many don't give a toss about neither titles nor mounts. If they can be motivated to run the content anyway, there's no reason why people caring about long-term collections can't. Beating the content when it's still current has been a perfect motivator for 15 years. No reason why that shouldn't remain, and I'm not sure that LFR tourists pretending to be Mythic raiders "if only" (not you, others in the thread) have the best grasp on raiding issues to begin with.

    They even tried making LFR LESS rewarding than it already was during WoD as they made the LFR versions give shitty gear sets (not recolors of tier). The end result wasn't more Mythic raiders, but rather fewer players partaking in max level instanced content, period.
    Last edited by Queen of Hamsters; 2019-06-13 at 11:14 PM.
    Classic WoW is 10% gameplay and 90% talking about "how much better it is than Retail WoW" in in-game chats, Youtube Videos, Twitch or ALL the forums.

  19. #8159
    Quote Originally Posted by Queen of Hamsters View Post
    No discussing with a person delusional enough to believe that Mythic Jaina is the same content as LFR Jaina, really.
    Why didn't the first 100 people that killed her on LFR get the FOS title?? Unfair!
    Which is funny because in the past people would rally around how lack of difficulty levels meant lack of content provided. Now people are acting like super easy mode is same content as something that the only similarity is the model.

  20. #8160
    Quote Originally Posted by Queen of Hamsters View Post
    Nono, not lumping you with them, never would!

    There is however limited-time rewards, the titles you can only get if you're part of the first 100 guilds (of your faction or total, I forget) to kill the boss.
    In the end, many don't give a toss about neither titles nor mounts. If they can be motivated to run the content anyway, there's no reason why people caring about long-term collections can't. Beating the content when it's still current has been a perfect motivator for 15 years. No reason why that shouldn't remain, and I'm not sure that LFR tourists pretending to be Mythic raiders "if only" (not you, others in the thread) have the best grasp on raiding issues to begin with.

    They even tried making LFR LESS rewarding than it already was during WoD as they made the LFR versions give shitty gear sets (not recolors of tier). The end result wasn't more Mythic raiders, but rather fewer players partaking in max level instanced content, period.
    Yeah I remember WoD lfr. I thought that was a good idea but if it didn’t turn out to be then it makes sense why it hasn’t been done again. Truthfully lfr will never and has never competed with the higher difficulties so I don’t care much. When people say “why do mythic when you can do lfr” it’s likely they’re motivated by rewards alone which is fine imo however it doesn’t really make sense either. Mythic feels like an entirely different raid most of the time if you can get there pre-nerf.

    As for the titles, the problem with famed slayer is that it’s a guild wide achievement. Now that’s awesome especially for very stable top 100 guilds (we’re close-ish) however if your guild falls apart, you decide to leave and raid with friends or whatever the case is you lose that title. That’s the only problem with it otherwise I think it’d be pretty damn good and more than enough.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •