BfA Patch Speculation thread (8.3 and later).

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

That's like saying we're not going to Argus in 7.3 because "We only have Argus in the sky, but it's a planet. There's no way we could go there in the span of a patch", or like saying Archimonde isn't the final boss because "He is too powerful, he doesn't fully fit the overall story, and Blizzard themselves said that Grommash would be the final boss of WoD".

Blizzard has said a lot of things. For example: "There are no Old Gods in BFA".

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I'm still pretty sure the 4th War is the entirety of WoW, up until Patch 8.2.5-8.3.

Too many starts and stops to have all of WoW be the 4th war.

There was no war in Vanilla/BC, merely simmering tensions and border clashes. Wrath things heated up into the Garrosh War that ended with peace in MoP. WoD there was no war, Legion (believe it or not) there was no war. BFA then there was war again.

[Syegfryed]

N'zoth is free, we just had the Eternal Palace as a raid, everyone is hinting towards a final battle against the beast, the War Campaign is ending in 8.2.5...

What more do you want?

a cohesive story would be fine for the start

one of the proofs that bfa is legion but worse, they are going for the same route of events, until 8.2 we have one thing, then 8.3 was 180° with fucking argus, all titans alive and they pull off a new one from their asses

until 8.2 is hxa tem 8.3 can be anything, even going to shadowlands face nzoth LUL

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I'm still pretty sure the 4th War is the entirety of WoW, up until Patch 8.2.5-8.3.

it don't make sense, the war that varian declared in wtlk ended in mop, with the alliance and rebels against the horde, ithe war was over.

Sylvanus start this war, and its ending now, it should be the 5th war

[Sondrelk]

N'zoth is free, we just had the Eternal Palace as a raid, everyone is hinting towards a final battle against the beast, the War Campaign is ending in 8.2.5...

What more do you want?

I want the N'zoth fight to make sense in the context of the expansion and not spit in hte face of perfectly good narrative structure.

The expansion has been about Faction war, and teh atrocities commited by Sylvanas. Not about teh void, or How N'zoth orchestrated the entire war while wearing a Sylvanas disguise.

As i have mentioned before, the only way for a N'zoth final boss to make sense if is Sylvanas comes out as a N'zoth cultist and revelaing she did everything to further his goals. Otherwise the expansion is basically just throwing away teh original premise and patching on a different one haphazardly.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I want the N'zoth fight to make sense in the context of the expansion and not spit in hte face of perfectly good narrative structure.

The expansion has been about Faction war, and teh atrocities commited by Sylvanas. Not about teh void, or How N'zoth orchestrated the entire war while wearing a Sylvanas disguise.

As i have mentioned before, the only way for a N'zoth final boss to make sense if is Sylvanas comes out as a N'zoth cultist and revelaing she did everything to further his goals. Otherwise the expansion is basically just throwing away teh original premise and patching on a different one haphazardly.

How can it not make sense? N'zoth taking advantage of the fact we're at war make us go to Azshara to free him and while we're busy killing each other...basically come to us and say "Hey......uhhhh your war amuses me so die now."

[Sondrelk]

That's like saying we're not going to Argus in 7.3 because "We only have Argus in the sky, but it's a planet. There's no way we could go there in the span of a patch", or like saying Archimonde isn't the final boss because "He is too powerful, he doesn't fully fit the overall story, and Blizzard themselves said that Grommash would be the final boss of WoD".

Blizzard has said a lot of things. For example: "There are no Old Gods in BFA".

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I'm still pretty sure the 4th War is the entirety of WoW, up until Patch 8.2.5-8.3.

Argus made sense because it was teh Burning Legion homeworld, so going there did not in any way go against the premise of the expansion, that of defeating the Burning Legion.

The analogy i ahve always used for this is imagine if the final boss of Legion was Azshara. Just because we had a zone about her, a dungeon about her and in many ways even a raid about her with the Night elf element of the Nightborne and the Naga bosses in Tomb of sargeras does not in any way mean that she is a fitting endboss for the expansion, she would have added nothing to the expansions premise of defeating the Legion.

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How can it not make sense? N'zoth taking advantage of the fact we're at war make us go to Azshara to free him and while we're busy killing each other...basically come to us and say "Hey......uhhhh your war amuses me so die now."

Sure, it makes sense for him specifically, but it does not make sense as a narrative. Again, imagine if Legion ended with Azshara, she realized we were vulnerable after Argus showed up in the sky, so she stole the Tidestone of Golganneth and we fight her at the end. Sure, it makes sense for her character, but not for the story.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Sure, it makes sense for him specifically, but it does not make sense as a narrative. Again, imagine if Legion ended with Azshara, she realized we were vulnerable after Argus showed up in the sky, so she stole the Tidestone of Golganneth and we fight her at the end. Sure, it makes sense for her character, but not for the story.

We knew Old god shennigans were in the background as early as 8.0. It was pretty damn obvious.

[Sondrelk]

We knew Old god shennigans were in the background as early as 8.0. It was pretty damn obvious.

Old god shenanigans were as obvious as 7.0, actually, when we had a dungeon about Azshara and a dungeon and raid for the Emerald Nightmare.

Just because elements are present in the sotyr does not mean it has to all be resolved in the same story, only the driving conflict has to be resolved. And the driving conflict of BfA is faction war, not void. Adding N'zoth on top does not mesh at all with the faction war as it has been presented so far, none of the questlines dealing with faction war has shown that the Void was behind it all, none of the cinematics show that Sylvanas is a N'zoth cultist.

Just the same as none of the Class hall questlines in Legion dealt with Naga or had Azshara be behind all these disparate Legion attacks.

The expansion started with faction war, and it should end with faction war. If it didn't, then Blizzard is essentially shitting all over basic storytelling.

[Nathanyel]

Regarding "Fourth War", was this term datamined, or did it come up in this thread? Saw so many mentions, but can't see it in the recent datamining news items on WH or MMOC.

[Syegfryed]

Calling now:

Alliance x Horde war is over, they all discover what sylvanas was up to including thrall murder order, the big cinematic will show people her big play with dark powers, alliance and horde unite go against sylvanas forces to free orgrimmar, thus we have a Durotar warfront ( that was datamined previously), this was just facade, leading to the stormwind assault scenario(also datamined before), the other cinematic show how she conquer the city with the helya/nzoth help

final shit is us united in Siege of Stormwind, we retake the city, but she don't die, just like other warbringers, she will be the cliffhanger for the next expansion.

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Regarding "Fourth War", was this term datamined, or did it come up in this thread? Saw so many mentions, but can't see it in the recent datamining news items on WH or MMOC.

[Raetary]

The expansion has been about Faction war, and teh atrocities commited by Sylvanas. Not about teh void, or How N'zoth orchestrated the entire war while wearing a Sylvanas disguise.

It was pretty damn obvious the expansions faction war theme was never gonna last.

N'zoth has been meddling with us throughout the expansion.
Us dealing with him now (while a shame) is probably the only thing that actually makes sense this expansion.,

[Sondrelk]

It was pretty damn obvious the expansions faction war theme was never gonna last.

N'zoth has been meddling with us throughout the expansion.
Us dealing with him now (while a shame) is probably the only thing that actually makes sense this expansion.,

Doing that would make BfA the true odd one out between all the expansion. Even WoD managed ot have the final raid be about the theme it started with. (Orcs going through the dark portal (not fel) > Orcs going through the dark portal (fel)).

Him having vague whispers all throughout the expansion is basically the same amount of exposure Azshara had in Legion where we fought a whole bunch of her lieutenants and even saw her in person during that Azsuna questline.

Not to mention not having Sylvanas would be a weird choice considering we had Jaina as the boss in hte 8.1 raid, edspite her not being all that necessary. Then we had Azshara in 8.2. And she survived even though her story was basically over. Having Sylvanas as a boss in the 8.3 raid where she survives makes the most sense. N'zoth certainly has a hand in the expansion, but not enough to not make it feel like he didnt just appear out of nowhere to antagonize us suddenly.

Not to mention the fact that having him be the final boss here is both bad for his characterization, as it means he was not smart enough to wait until he was absolutely sure. And aslso bad fot the longevity of the game, as we would have defeated a major enemy in an expansion not even dedicated to him, like if we fought Arthas at the end of TBC, or Deathwing at the end of WotLK.

[Maxilian]

I don't get why did they make that storyline. I know that night elf fans were constantly asking about being more "savage"(yet there is highborne fanbase too) but they could have done this better. For example, they could make a story about slaughtering Shatterspear trolls.

To be fair, the bad part of that storyline is the execution of it, something they could have done poorly with any storyline regardless of how good it is

[Dartz1979]

If the void is a still a major antoganist, it's gonna be Alleria.

Just like i say about sylvanas and vereesa i will not do any harm to any of my windrunner waifus... it's just not right... we need to keep our female lore characters alive and safe.

[TheFirstOnes]

Just like i say about sylvanas and vereesa i will not do any harm to any of my windrunner waifus... it's just not right... we need to keep our female lore characters alive and safe.

Idk about you, but I'll be happy to whoop them to death.

[Voidism]

Why would the void want Alleria to kill Sylvanas if Sylvanas was being controlled?

[Drekmar]

Why would the void want Alleria to kill Sylvanas if Sylvanas was being controlled?

That theory is based on the short story about them, void wanted Alleria to kill Sylvana in it.

[DeicideUH]

I want the N'zoth fight to make sense in the context of the expansion and not spit in hte face of perfectly good narrative structure.

The expansion has been about Faction war, and teh atrocities commited by Sylvanas. Not about teh void, or How N'zoth orchestrated the entire war while wearing a Sylvanas disguise.

As i have mentioned before, the only way for a N'zoth final boss to make sense if is Sylvanas comes out as a N'zoth cultist and revelaing she did everything to further his goals. Otherwise the expansion is basically just throwing away teh original premise and patching on a different one haphazardly.

My prediction is that the final patch is the war between Death and Void. Essentially, Sylvanas, through Helya, is serving Death and plans to kill Azeroth and raise everyone as Undead, bringing peace in her own twisted way. That’s why the Void fears her (3 Sisters comic).

Meanwhile, N’Zoth desperately needs freedom to stop her and claim the World Soul for himself.

The faction war was a distraction. Horde was serving Death, the Alliance is being manipulated by the Void (through Umbric and some of the Void elves, who act too perfectly aligned with the Alliance, but are ready to betray it). “The boy king serves at the master’s table”.

Both storylines will thus converge in 8.3, with the Death/Void conflict finally being exposed. In the last raid, we need to intervene and fight both forces to save Azeroth.

That’s my wild claim.

[Sondrelk]

My prediction is that the final patch is the war between Death and Void. Essentially, Sylvanas, through Helya, is serving Death and plans to kill Azeroth and raise everyone as Undead, bringing peace in her own twisted way. That’s why the Void fears her (3 Sisters comic).

Meanwhile, N’Zoth desperately needs freedom to stop her and claim the World Soul for himself.

The faction war was a distraction. Horde was serving Death, the Alliance is being manipulated by the Void (through Umbric and some of the Void elves, who act too perfectly aligned with the Alliance, but are ready to betray it). “The boy king serves at the master’s table”.

Both storylines will thus converge in 8.3, with the Death/Void conflict finally being exposed. In the last raid, we need to intervene and fight both forces to save Azeroth.

That’s my wild claim.

That would come a bit out of left field though, woudlnt it. Sylvanas being dangerous to the void because she intends ot kill Azeroth makes sense, same with N'zoth wanting freedom.

I am just not sure where it is in any way foreshadowed that Umbric is a traitor. The line about Anduin serving at the masters table i think is more about how his naivete and inexperience is making it easier for pro-void factions to take control.


That is just my opinion though. I would personally love a Stormwind raid. The one outlined in hte Shadowlands leak would actually be perfect so long as the Sylvanas fight does not end with the storywriters taking a dive from a highrise. The opening bosses sound like they could be amazing.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

That would come a bit out of left field though, woudlnt it. Sylvanas being dangerous to the void because she intends ot kill Azeroth makes sense, same with N'zoth wanting freedom.

I am just not sure where it is in any way foreshadowed that Umbric is a traitor. The line about Anduin serving at the masters table i think is more about how his naivete and inexperience is making it easier for pro-void factions to take control.


That is just my opinion though. I would personally love a Stormwind raid. The one outlined in hte Shadowlands leak would actually be perfect so long as the Sylvanas fight does not end with the storywriters taking a dive from a highrise. The opening bosses sound like they could be amazing.

I'd still go for the Teldrassil raid where Sylvie uses lots of Undead Nelves Tyrande at the forefront for obvious reasons and all that. an Undead Tree of Life/Ancient of War boss fight. Undead Nightsaber mobs...Undead Faire dragons. Another boss could be like the whomping willow esque Tree boss, just Undead(SOrry if that is confusing). If the faction war is continuing, why not at where the sparks started.

Its a bit much but >.>

[Sondrelk]

I'd still go for the Teldrassil raid where Sylvie uses lots of Undead Nelves Tyrande at the forefront for obvious reasons and all that. an Undead Tree of Life/Ancient of War boss fight. Undead Nightsaber mobs...Undead Faire dragons. Another boss could be like the whomping willow esque Tree boss, just Undead(SOrry if that is confusing). If the faction war is continuing, why not at where the sparks started.

Its a bit much but >.>

Would love to see that, was a big proponent of that theory from the first time i saw it, though i suppose it is a bit far fetched compared to Stormwind. Though i wholeheartedly agree, Teldrassil would be perfect for a final raid. It could start on the ocean with a sea battle or two, slowly move up the brances, and then end in Darnassus, where Sylvanas is in hte process of ressurecting all the Nelves and Worgen that could not make it to the portal in time.

The potential for bosses is quite vast, and unlike Stormwind you do not have ot make a big show about making sure the bosses are established in their arenas.


I guess we just have to see going forward though, a faction war raid with Sylvanas attempting to ressurect a whole bunch of corpses is definitely the way to go if you want a consistent narrative. Hopefully the 8.2.5 war campaign sheds some light on where the expansion is going, or failing that, we get the 8.3 PTR announced quickly afterwards so we can move towards the endgame.