Vengeance boring? what happened?

[Narabug]

Maybe they should make spirit bomb a passive talent that reads something like

"Soul fragments you consume explode in a AoE around you dealing x fire damage and applying frailty to any target(s) hit"

and then buff Soul Cleave damage and healing and pain-cost so it feels like a finisher / spender move.

I completely agree, and I have thought of this exact mechanic as a viable option for Spirit Bomb.

There are a lot of QoL changes for Vengeance that could be made, and I wish the developers were open to community feedback. Unfortunately, however, they really do not seem to be open to much more than the simplest fixes. The reason we are at where we are now is that in the Alpha, SpB replaced Soul Cleave. People (rightfully) complained that it felt bad to sit at max pain 100% of time and just wait for Fragments, so Blizzard made the easiest change possible - it no longer replaces Soul Cleave.

[Deleted]

I think Vengeance plays well and that's weirdly with a couple of glaring issues, primarily:
Soul Fragments don't play well with terrain, I couldn't get above 3 fragments when stood on the ship in Siege of Boralus
The Demon Spikes associated pain cost was removed, seemingly with no thought for where the excess pain would now be spent.

I still think we are lacking on the cooldown front, Soul Barrier is really only strong if you can bank the shield in a tank switch situation or where you don't take enough damage before you can generate more souls to add to the shield otherwise it gets broken once it's current damage shield total is reached.

I don't think Souls as a thing on the ground works very well as, like I said above they can get absorbed if the game can't find a surface to spawn them on and it's odd being the most mobile tank whilst getting penalised for moving. Tapping backwards or strafe to reposition mobs can be enough to trigger the souls pickup range. It would work better as a buff and I never find myself wanting to walk over them outside of for a small heal after combat.

[notawizard]

I don't think Souls as a thing on the ground works very well as, like I said above they can get absorbed if the game can't find a surface to spawn them on and it's odd being the most mobile tank whilst getting penalised for moving. Tapping backwards or strafe to reposition mobs can be enough to trigger the souls pickup range. It would work better as a buff and I never find myself wanting to walk over them outside of for a small heal after combat.

^ This... could be solved by the whole spirit bomb as a passive idea, because auto-consume (by walking over them for example) would still make that particular soul fragment explode around you. So then soul cleave only consuming 2 fragments would not be a problem and if you wanted to explode the other 2/3 faster you could walk over them or use fracture to generate more*. (*because all fragments > 5 get auto-consumed anyway).

But yeah, walking over fragments right now has to be one of the most frustrating things about VDH right now.

P.S: To make gluttony more viable/competitive with spirit bomb they could keep it the way it is and add an additional 1-minute cooldown reduction to metamorphosis so it becomes a 2min CD when talented. And to make Fel Devastation more competetive with Spirit Bomb maybe add a 8-second Meta buff after the channel, Demonic-(havoc)-style?

[AgilityTank]

I like veng. Fracture with 2 charges is more interesting and there's a decent variety in rotation and ways to use our utility. Even our azerite traits are kinda cool