Awesome new zones but the leveling is the worst we ever had

[rda]

I don't like that everything scales up to your level either, makes levelling completely pointless. The only thing that makes you more powerful is ilvl now.

Exactly.

And no, contrary to Legion babies, it was NOT like that before. It only became like that in Legion. And while some people like scaling for its other benefits, many people don't like it, because it feels stupid and backwards.

Why the hell do we have these levels when the entire world is hard-set to be the same level as us? Just remove the level number then. Because it's not the level number anymore, it's more like a difficulty setting on the scale of 1 to 120 currently, 1 = lowest, 120 = highest. Display it on the screen somewhere, it's no longer the property of a character, it's the property of the world. It's certainly very un-RPG-like and, frankly, just boring.

[smokii]

You said you can read. Apparently you cannot. Because you asked me to tell you what you are missing, I told you, yet you ignored what I wrote.

i didn't ignore it, i discarded it as misinformed.

you're basically saying - wahhh, it's too hard. it takes too long to kill a mob. i feel underpowered.

this is what happens when you've been overpowered for the last 6-8 months.

it's like when you come off the motorway and are used to going 70mph. suddenly doing 30mph feels like 5mph.

[Thenatural]

I prefer the scaling difficulty. I hated levelling through northrend etc when you just start 1 shotting everything. Gets boring real fast.

Could you imagine the whine of everything became trivially easy at 116-120? The cries of blizzard pandering to a casual audience and removing all skill from leveling would be insane.

[rda]

i didn't ignore it, i discarded it as misinformed.

you're basically saying - wahhh, it's too hard. it takes too long to kill a mob. i feel underpowered.

this is what happens when you've been overpowered for the last 6-8 months.

it's like when you come off the motorway and are used to going 70mph. suddenly doing 30mph feels like 5mph.

This is beyond hilarious now.

You are saying that I am misinformed. Please quote a specific phrase from my post which is misinformed.

Cannot do this? Then apologize and shut up.

[Lodreh]

Lol this isn't the first person I've seen recently trying to act like the game getting harder at higher levels is something new and terrible...

It's not new but you could still see as it terrible. So far I have not experienced anything super hard that took a while to destroy but my character was fairly well geared and I've just hit 115 so things could change rather quickly. I get what the OP is saying though. In games like D&D and most RPGs that use levels you innately do more damage just by being higher level. With scaling that seems to be less and less the case. Should a naked 120 should be just as strong as a fully raid geared 110? Probably not... but with questing gear he should not die to the same wolf that the 110 could easily destroy... and that's the issue. The sense of progression has been lost in leveling mainly due to scaling.

[Jin]

RPG games it is never been a thing that when you level up you get weaker, thats not how it works, ever or should work. It defeats the whole purpose of leveling(getting stronger).

[Unholyground]

As a tank it does not seem to effect me that much.

[Post]

"You think you want vanilla, but you don't!"

I mean this thread is an example of it..so..

[hyphnos]

Could you imagine the whine of everything became trivially easy at 116-120? The cries of blizzard pandering to a casual audience and removing all skill from leveling would be insane.

They can't remove "all skill from levelling" because levelling doesn't take skill it takes time and an ability to not be bored out of your mind.

It never took skill in WoW. Never.

[splatomat]

The benefit of scaling is that zones never become trivial for xp purposes. This is really only relevant for purposes of variety (i.e., starting in Zone A on one character vs. starting in Zone B on another character).

vs.

The drawback of scaling is that at best, you never feel different mowing down mobs. At worst, you feel weaker as your level goes up. Additionally, mobs permanently maintain their level and aggro radius...meaning they will ALWAYS be a pain in the ass to travel through. This becomes less relevant when they eventually unlock flying but remains relevant for Archaeology permanently.

You can argue whether this tradeoff is worth it or not, but please stop with the insane bullshit that it has "always been this way". It hasn't - and you lose all credibility for suggesting it.

[kaid]

Yeah, it's always been like this you just got used to playing max level for so long you forgot about it. For classes that are strong at solo/outdoor content, you'll be fine in a week or two of gearing. For classes that are very weak, it could take until you have a bit of raid gear until you can go YOLO.

Yup pretty much this. Max level is balanced for max level so it feels hard until your gear starts coming in. You will be punching their lights out soon enough because your gear will scale as the expansion goes on and generally the mobs never do unless the devs so some one time bumps like I think they did in legion.

[smokii]

This is beyond hilarious now.

You are saying that I am misinformed. Please quote a specific phrase from my post which is misinformed.

Cannot do this? Then apologize and shut up.

i can and will not apologise.

snip:

So, you were getting stronger and stronger and were moving to fight stronger and stronger enemies and it felt that way because it was that way.

it was not that way. you never got stronger against an enemy of the same level.

you only get stronger against enemies of the same level by having better gear.

between 110-115 if you raided in legion, you outgear the enemies at your level. same for legion if you raided in WoD.

between 116-120 old raid gear is no longer effective and you have to survive on quest gear. or do dungeons to get slightly better gear. it's not until you start hitting heroics at 120 that you will start pulling ahead of WQ mobs in terms of power.

due to scaling there is no longer the option of staying in the lower level areas and fighting easier mobs -- this is your problem. i understand this. but i do not see it as a problem. if you're playing a clothie, or a healer, with low-end dps, i can totally understand the complaint. it does get tricky. but this is the way it has always been.

you do at least have the option of levelling through gathering and pet battles.

[rda]

(ignore, reply below)

[Tj106]

I love that it’s tougher to level

[rda]

it was not that way. you never got stronger against an enemy of the same level.

You are talking about a combination of small increases in power and small decreases in power from leveling up sometimes ending up negative. I said that it was sometimes ending up negative. The difference with Legion and BFA is that they add a big negative factor on top of it.

You cannot read and should apologize because the phrase you quoted was not misinformed, you just quoted part of the thought.

---
Actually, it is simpler than that. I just noticed. You moved goalposts. You are saying "never got stronger against an enemy of the same level". My phrase that you quoted reads: "So, you were getting stronger and stronger and were moving to fight stronger and stronger enemies and it felt that way because it was that way" and if you cared to quote the preceding sentences, you'd end up quoting this: "The issue is that you are getting less powerful against the same mobs". "Same mobs" in my text vs "enemy of the same level" = not "same mobs" in yours.

So, you are just a twister of words. Or maybe you cannot comprehend what is written. Or maybe you cannot read.

In any case, you are wrong. Your reply is not to my phrase, you are replying to an imaginary argument you yourself created. So, you have to apologize and shut up, just like I said. Waiting for the apology.

[syar]

By harder you mean not entirely faceroll? Like I can eat chips watch some youtube video and use social media while leveling easy? Oh the horror that I have to play the game in order to play the game

[smokii]

You are talking about a combination of small increases in power and small decreases in power from leveling up sometimes ending up negative. I said that it was sometimes ending up negative. The difference with Legion and BFA is that they add a big negative factor on top of it.

You cannot read and should apologize because the phrase you quoted was not misinformed, you just quoted part of the thought.

what small increases in power? you keep talking about this without providing any numbers.

a naked player going from level 110 to 111 only increases in power against a level 110 mob. because that mob is now lower level than it.

the negative power, is the loss you get from still wearing 110 gear at 115.

think of it like this. (this is not 100% accurate, i don't know blizz's exact numbers)

@110, you get 100% of stats from a level 110 item.
@111, you get 80%
@112, 60%
@113, 40%
@114, 20%
@115, 0%

this is why legiondaries are being replaced around level 116 - because at that point the stat bonus on it, is no longer more powerful than a level 116 green.

@ level 110. mobs are balanced against a player in 110 greens.
@ level 115. mobs are balanced against a player in 115 greens.

the mob power level has not changed in relation to your player level.
your gear power level massively decreases every level, unless you replace it with new level appropriate gear.

[rda]

what small increases in power? you keep talking about this without providing any numbers.

Every level up you get an increase in primary stats. In former times you were also getting hit, because your level participated in the hit math. Etc, there were several other things.

"a naked player going from level 110 to 111 only increases in power against a level 110 mob. because that mob is now lower level than it." --- Yes. This is what my post is talking about. You want to compare player of level 110 vs mob of level 110 and player of level 111 vs mob of level 111, but I explicitly said, multiple times, that I am comparing player of level 110 vs mob of level 110, and then, after the ding, player of level 111 vs mob of level 110.

This was in the text you quoted. Learn to read. You said you can read, so go read and pay attention.

And now I shall have your belated apology. It better be lengthy because you persisted for three more dumb posts. Pretending that I was being misinformed, while it was you not reading or not comprehending.

[Deleted]

The BIGGEST problem is that the whole scaling thing allows a 110 and a 119 to do the same quests. Which means you can see those 110s kill stuff in seconds, while you're taking 3 times longer.

[segara82]

Maybe it's because i GM'ed various Pen & Paper groups for over 20 years, but in my experience gaining a level is synonymous with getting better, faster, stronger, harder-hitting.
So if my characters after a level up both for me and my enemies means i do less damage .... is contrary to the very reason to level up.
Why even bother with levels when you can't grow stronger than your enemies and have to rely on gear?

Add to that that you gain no new abilities, spells, talents or whatsoever it is just a roadblock/gating-mechanism before you are allowed to enter the dungeons and raids.
In that regard BfA leveling is just contradictory to what it should be.