With items like these, is WoW Pay to Win?

[khitranegg]

No because you're stronger if you don't equip items ^^

[Deleted]

W r o n g.

Do you know how many people bought gold illegally anyway? It's not a drug epidemic after the US legalized weed. People still got high decades before it became legal in some states.

Also, it's pay4gear sure if you pay for it. It still won't bring your scrubby ass into a mythic guild if you can't handle your character well.

You don't need a mythic guild if you can buy all achievements you want with gold. And achievements don't care how you get them. If you get to beat a mythic boss in a carry run, financed by buying gold via selling tokens, then you paid to win.

[Deleted]

It is P2W since the introduction of Tokens.

They are selling items on their store, it's called tokens and with those tokens you can buy powerful items that gives a big advantage in-game.

This guy is right. Wow is indeed ptw since the introduction of tokens.

Its been p2w for a while. You can buy gold. You can buy a boost with money, then buy carries with gold. You dont have to play the game at all.

Yes, this is almost the purest form of P2W and it's sad to see people defend this. You are literally buying gold from Blizzard (giving them money) and you'll directly have a clear advantage over others by buying 350 BoE gear from the AH. No shit you can't pay real money to unlock the mythic achievement that says you've beat the raid (eventually you actually can, indirectly), but that doesn't make it less P2W. All these mobile games that are notorious for being P2W don't make you beat the game by purchasing their gems, they just give you an advantage over others.

p2w since tokens.

Yes, Tokens and Boosts are P2W.

Yes but not because of your example with BoE items.

WoW is pay to win because of game tokens. I don't want to get into details but generally when you can buy in-game currency with real currency and spend it to get the best gear it is a pay to win game.

Yes , it is . Wonder why the prices are so high? because someone can do exactly that , buy the gold and get the item . But after uldir release that will be a pay to waste money .
Competitive gameplay hasn't yet started (and i know that some trinkets will still be better than raid ones) so right now , in this instance the damage is minimum

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Yes , it is . Wonder why the prices are so high? because someone can do exactly that , buy the gold and get the item . But after uldir release that will be a pay to waste money .
Competitive gameplay hasn't yet started (and i know that some trinkets will still be better than raid ones) so right now , in this instance the damage is minimum

Yes WoW has elements of pay to win now,

Its funny to watch people bend over backwards trying to say there isnt, but there is.

The moment you could boost to near max level you gain an advantage through not wasting time leveling and can begin gearing nearly instantly saving you dozens of hours.

Pay to win.

Expensive mounts that cost lots of gold with game enhancing features while also selling tokens that give massive amounts of gold, again pay to win.

Sorry if this triggers some people but its simple facts

I think WoW already is pay to win to a degree as you may buy tokens for real money to turn them into gold, which you use to purchase raid carries from guilds. Which, finally, lets you get raid quality gear without playing raids as intended.

You buy tokens, sell them for gold and buy gear.

Since you can buy anything in game with enough gold the answer is yes. Since Blizzard endorses selling gold via tokens, the game is now pay to win. You can buy your way to the best gear in the game.

Use real money to buy tokens. Sell tokens for in game gold. Use in game gold to buy mythic raid runs. You have beaten the game and won. WoW is pay to win.

soon as you can buy anything in game with real cash that gives advantage over anyone or anything its no doubt pay2win,no discussion needed.

Here is the complete list of ignorant users that cannot understand what is a "P2W" mechanic.


This happens when you drop out of college, don't do it or you will end acting like a fool on a forum.

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Also i bet 20bucks that all the users i quoted are LFR or 10/11 HC hero

[Deleted]

In 1.5 weeks items of equal and better quality can effortlessly be farmed from M+5 and normal raids, so I will say no.

[Revelations]

You don't need a mythic guild if you can buy all achievements you want with gold. And achievements don't care how you get them. If you get to beat a mythic boss in a carry run, financed by buying gold via selling tokens, then you paid to win.

First, then there's no point in discussing it. You can pay for anything in any game. You can hire a Method raider for $100k and make him play your character to win. P2W. Life is "P2W"

Second, what is "to win"? We need to define that first. If you pay for the achievement at the absolute end of the expansion then you did not win anything. That achievement is worth nothing. Almost no guild sell achievements that early

[Ashkiman]

You know it's gonna cost about 80€ and you'll change it once you step in the first difficulty of the first raid

[Deleted]

First, then there's no point in discussing it. You can pay for anything in any game. You can hire a Method raider for $100k and make him play your character to win. P2W. Life is "P2W"

Second, what is "to win"? We need to define that first. If you pay for the achievement at the absolute end of the expansion then you did not win anything. That achievement is worth nothing. Almost no guild sell achievements that early

"to win" is, in their ignorant mindset, to get 340 asap to get invited in myth because they have no guild or too lazy to make their own group.

Casuals whining because they are casual.

[Deleted]

If not, then what would have to happen for WoW to be Pay to Win? If being able to buy powerful gear with real money isn't enough, then what has to happen for WoW to be Pay to Win?

What the token really did is remove the "illegal" and unsafe gold selling from the game by adding it's own thing and making some extra profit. Gold bought via tokens is still gold owned by other players.

For it to be pay to win would be if those items would be available only for real money. To a lesser extent it may be sort of pay to win if blizzard were to "add gold into the game when buying the token".

[sam86]

"Pay to win" means non-cosmetical effect items you buy outside of the game that effect you inside of the game.

This is not pay to win because the items are already found inside of the game.



Good point here, however, how would game time tokens give one player a clear advantage in any aspect of the game (PvE, PvP, pet battles, professions) over another player?

because u can literally login, pay rl money to boost, then pay rl money for tokens, get sh8tload of gold in-game, pay for in-game hc/mythic boost, and get the best gear u can without even working a single second on ur progress, just paying
wow just needs far more money to achieve that than actual freemium games
And i did meet someone like that in Legion, who got high gear during 7.2 by purely paying money, with no in-game play, and since even in pvp everything scale, his lack of 'skill' is very compensated with the massive gear he has
And blizz has zero morals with stuff like that since now the rl money goes directly to their pockets instead of some random chineese gold farmer, makes me question why exactly did they spend 8 years saying it is wrong and even make it in login hints to never pay money for gold (if anyone remember that) if they have zero conscious when they are doing it themselves
U can keep paying non stop to high-end raiding guilds until u get best gear possible (also that means either u need loads of cash, or extreme luck with titanforge crap), and with no skill at all, just being rich irl

[munkeyinorbit]

Dumbest crap I've read on P2W systems and NO, P2W means you pay to have a big advantage over those who don't pay.

I love it when people call out others for saying the dumbest shit but who are in fact wrong. It is hilarious.

[Charge me Doctor]

In P2W system you pay real money to the developer to get power from them. In WoW you pay real money to developer for a token. Token is used to buy power from players. If no players can sell you "power" (aka, BoE epics become irrelevant) you can't buy power anymore. I can't call that P2W game, you can't even win this game anyways.

When blizzard will make tokens into... well... tokens you can trade for +30 ilvl gear above Mythic raiding at vendor, i'd call that pay to win

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Haven't seen any facts coming from your posts so far but sure, stick to the "reals".
Look, I can do it too. lol
WoW has P2W elements, fact, end of story.

Player A paid for subscription
Player B plays of free account
Player A went to Durotar and beat Player B

WoW is P2W

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I disagree. It is pay to win if it's extremely grindy and time consuming. As in the P2W is in the design.

For example, imagine you can buy a whole gear set of 350 gear now for gold/money. You can get the same item in-game if you grind for 6 months. It's pay to win. They are telling you pay up or get left behind.

That was just a repair to your definition. We are in agreement this particular case isn't P2W.

If obtaining gear would take 6 months, BoE epics would cost billions of gold. Thing is - token doesn't give you power, you can get as much gold from it as much other players are wishing to give you. If gear is basically unobtainable - these BoEs wouldn't be sold for 200k gold

[sam86]

What the token really did is remove the "illegal" and unsafe gold selling from the game by adding it's own thing and making some extra profit.

Let's ignore that blizz spend years telling u buying gold for real money is wrong even on login tips, but selling dungeon/raid boosts was NOT common if it even existed pre-WoD era
I played every exp except Cata (even cata played it a little), and I don't remember see hc/mythic boost sells in trade chat for gold legally prior to my return in last 6 months in WoD (after legion was announced i bought wod and started playing again), even in MoP, in order to get my heirloom staff from Garrosh i had to organize raids myself or join others raids, and spent lot of time to do so, in WoD? half of raids don't want a 'low geared' (need pre-curve or 350 ilvl for a dungeon that drop fucking 350 ilvl in first place), and even when i start one ppl drop extremely fast with no desire to commit
The game in WoD is not even as MoP, and of course not at all like Wrath, now u are expected to have gear, because u can get that 'easily' with gold boosts, don't have gold boosts ? go fuck urself

[SL1200]

Almost everything you could want in wow has a price tag on it now. Yes, wow is a pay to win game.

[Deleted]

because u can literally login, pay rl money to boost, then pay rl money for tokens, get sh8tload of gold in-game, pay for in-game hc/mythic boost, and get the best gear u can without even working a single second on ur progress, just paying
wow just needs far more money to achieve that than actual freemium games
And i did meet someone like that in Legion, who got high gear during 7.2 by purely paying money, with no in-game play, and since even in pvp everything scale, his lack of 'skill' is very compensated with the massive gear he has
And blizz has zero morals with stuff like that since now the rl money goes directly to their pockets instead of some random chineese gold farmer, makes me question why exactly did they spend 8 years saying it is wrong and even make it in login hints to never pay money for gold (if anyone remember that) if they have zero conscious when they are doing it themselves
U can keep paying non stop to high-end raiding guilds until u get best gear possible (also that means either u need loads of cash, or extreme luck with titanforge crap), and with no skill at all, just being rich irl

Mixing P2W and Boost.

Inviato dal mio SM-G950F utilizzando Tapatalk

[Deleted]

Here is the complete list of ignorant users that cannot understand what is a "P2W" mechanic.


This happens when you drop out of college, don't do it or you will end acting like a fool on a forum.

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Also i bet 20bucks that all the users i quoted are LFR or 10/11 HC hero

“Hurr durr I’m right and everyone is wrong even though I haven’t given any constructive criticism”

[Deleted]

Let's ignore that blizz spend years telling u buying gold for real money is wrong even on login tips, but selling dungeon/raid boosts was NOT common if it even existed pre-WoD era
I played every exp except Cata (even cata played it a little), and I don't remember see hc/mythic boost sells in trade chat for gold legally prior to my return in last 6 months in WoD (after legion was announced i bought wod and started playing again), even in MoP, in order to get my heirloom staff from Garrosh i had to organize raids myself or join others raids, and spent lot of time to do so, in WoD? half of raids don't want a 'low geared' (need pre-curve or 350 ilvl for a dungeon that drop fucking 350 ilvl in first place), and even when i start one ppl drop extremely fast with no desire to commit
The game in WoD is not even as MoP, and of course not at all like Wrath, now u are expected to have gear, because u can get that 'easily' with gold boosts, don't have gold boosts ? go fuck urself

Because there were really no boosts to sell back then. There was no mythic +

And boosts have existed since forever, boosts for gold were never against the TOS. I remember selling Algalon boosts for gold in wotlk so yeah ... boosts were there

[Kaver]

I see lots of BoE epics on the auction house for very high prices. Now one can go buy the token with real money to get that kind of gold together and therefore pay for it with real money, like you can do in Pay to Win games, where it gives you an unfair advantage over the people who don't spend real money on the game.

If not, then what would have to happen for WoW to be Pay to Win? If being able to buy powerful gear with real money isn't enough, then what has to happen for WoW to be Pay to Win?

I think they should limit the BoE’s to 330. If you can buy 340-350 for every item slot so you can get raid ready without playing the game much, it is definitely pay to win from my point of view.

[Deleted]

“Hurr durr I’m right and everyone is wrong even though I haven’t given any constructive criticism”

There are 11 page of "constructive criticism" that you have ignored due to the bliss of ignorance.

More than " you are wrong here is why " I don't know what to do.

[Irian]

More like "pay for a head start". Raids are coming out soon and then this stuff is going to be relatively useless for the serious player.

But I do think there is a notable point to be made that there are items above the ilvl of anything available ingame yet...as BoE epics. Passing that off as a coincidence would be a little silly, and I feel like people have a right to be kind of annoyed by it. As someone who was sitting on a pile of gold coming into BfA I got frustrated with bad loot RNG and bought myself a 355 mace for 300k, knowing it would last me a while with my super casual guild, but it does kind of miff me that a chump with 60 dollars right now can dump it on getting one of the best weapons available right now even if I'm also benefitting from it with ingame means. It just feels kinda bad.

The WoW token irreversibly put a dollar value on every item that's not BoP, and that's worthy of at least some criticism. I'd personally say there's more good than bad that comes out of the WoW token but I'm also a person who benefits from its existence by not having to pay a sub anymore.

[Deleted]

It is a MMO-RPG with it is own economy.

Since Vanilla, gold helped to get what you wanted.


But nevertheless it was, it is or it will be a P2W since you can get the same or better without gold.



People arguing is P2W are just casuals that are too bad to get into a myth guild and do hardcore content nor they are able to make gold hence " durr if I can't do it it means that nobody can because I am the best like mommy said so they buy with irl money "

So basically they are getting mad at other people because they can't cope with their limitations.