Bloomberg: The U.S. Can’t Bring Russia ‘to Its Knees’

[Felya]

The fact that you give a pass to Russia literally annexing sovereign countries and bitch about American "imperialism" tells anyone all they really need to know about how little you actually know and how much of a hypocrite you are.

It’s not a pass... it’s hero worship. For fucks sake, even blaming the fact that oligarchs had the money to buy Russian industry at the fall of communism, on the US. No... if US had it’s way, that Russian industry would not belong to Russian oligarchs. It would belong to American corporations. We had McDonalds in Russia, before we had coupons for food rations, during the fall of communism. It’s absurd... it was America’s fault that while I stood in line with my food coupon, organized crime had the money to buy the Moscow electrical company... go check the history of who owned Moscow electrical company... America’s fault my ass...

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The big mistake that could have prevented all this, is Ukraine giving up its nukes for nothing. Just to show solidarity with the west. If they only knew that Russia would be celebrated, after taking part of Ukraine... they would have never gave them up. This is a lesson other countries should learn. Looking at how NK is acting and the Iran deal break, I think some are noticing.

[Shalcker]

The big mistake that could have prevented all this, is Ukraine giving up its nukes for nothing. Just to show solidarity with the west. If they only knew that Russia would be celebrated, after taking part of Ukraine... they would have never gave them up. This is a lesson other countries should learn. Looking at how NK is acting and the Iran deal break, I think some are noticing.

Noone would ever trust Ukrainians to keep nukes safe, US most of all.

If Ukraine resisted Russians would just come in and take them - with US cheering for entire operation.

They never had real choice there, so they were given best they could get from whole situation - Budapest Memorandum (kept on memorandum level at US insistence so that US never had to ratify it and be potentially tangled in any conflict many years down the line).

And then US went and got tangled into such conflict anyway.

[Felya]

Noone would ever trust Ukrainians to keep nukes safe, US most of all.

Yeah, why would anyone trust a country to do something, they actually did without any impetus. WTF?

If Ukraine resisted Russians would just come in and take them - with US cheering for entire operation.

What? Don’t you mean those would not be Russian troops. Those will be rebels? Now you are saying Russia would have attacked Ukraine?

They never had real choice there, so they were given best they could get from whole situation - Budapest Memorandum (kept on memorandum level at US insistence so that US never had to ratify it and be potentially tangled in any conflict many years down the line).

They trusted those that they would not trust... how clever... lol

And then US went and got tangled into such conflict anyway.

Yeah, US is tangled in more Russian conflicts than vast majority of Americans even know exist. Like... your mass graves, don’t get reported in US almost at all. Why would Americans know Russia is blaming them, for something they don’t even know exists?

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@Theodarzna is here talking about American imperialism and has no seeming clue of what Russia has been doing. There is no way he knows what you @Shalcker has been seeing for the last 20 years. To him, this is a one way street. The free press and welcoming of free opinions is permitting you to push one side of the conflict. Russia on the other hand, controls what US and people like @Theodarzna can see. From even buying out Wikileaks to having state run media, being less of a barrier into Russian action, than simple language barrier. If this forum was ran like Russian media, your equivalent wouldn’t exist. The same way @Theodarzna lack of understanding Russian, is making what Russia has been doing, not exist.

[Shalcker]

Yeah, why would anyone trust a country to do something, they actually did without any impetus. WTF?

"Without any impetus", really?

There was plenty; have you ever actually checked history?

...of course you never did.

Check this, for example - even small excerpts show picture far from being "without any impetus".

What? Don’t you mean those would not be Russian troops. Those will be rebels? Now you are saying Russia would have attacked Ukraine?

Check link above; yes, it would. Plenty of things were at stake there.

They trusted those that they would not trust... how clever... lol

They had no option of not taking a deal; it had nothing to do with trust.

[Felya]

"Without any impetus", really?

Yes, really.

There

was plenty; have you ever actually checked history?

...of course you never did.

Check this, for example - even small excerpts show picture far from being "without any impetus".

Yes, without any impetus:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_...f-Defense_Bloc

In Ukrainian... to spite Russia...

Check link above; yes, it would. Plenty of things were at stake there.

We are talking about nukes. No shit... that’s why I am pointing at them doing it without impetus. You saying the above, does not contradict it. Me using nukes as an example, was explicitly to demonstrate the high stakes, making giving them up without impetus, that much more of a big deal.

They had no option of not taking a deal; it had nothing to do with trust.

Yeah, they had no option... just one of the largest nuclear arsenals in the world. Wtf?

[Shalcker]

Yes, really.
There
Yes, without any impetus:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_...f-Defense_Bloc
In Ukrainian... to spite Russia...

What the hell 2001-2011 coalition of Ukrainian parties has to do with 1994 Ukrainian NPT signing/Budapest Memorandum and nukes?

We are talking about nukes. No shit... that’s why I am pointing at them doing it without impetus. You saying the above, does not contradict it. Me using nukes as an example, was explicitly to demonstrate the high stakes, making giving them up without impetus, that much more of a big deal.

There was plenty of impetus. Both Russia and US made huge pressure on Ukraine - Clinton's US delayed normalization of diplomatic relations with Ukraine over that, and Russia implied threat of force when new military doctrine only ruled out use of force against NPT signatories...

Yeah, they had no option... just one of the largest nuclear arsenals in the world. Wtf?

When US and Russia gang up on you, there are no options.

And Russians were the ones with nuke codes either way.

[Cthulhu 2020]

In large part because most of you don’t speak Russian. You cannot know what Russia has been saying about the US for the last 20 years. Well... actually you do... listen to Theo... it’s that, but also blaming US and the west for every problem Russia has.

Edit: Sorry for the edit. But, no we are not doing the bold. Russia is using subversion, because it’s easier to subvert a free information society, than it is to win any war. The only way to fight subversion or the tact Russia is using, is education. Something that is objectively not being upgraded, with Nacy DeVos at the head of education and rhetoric of evil professors. You cannot say anything is being upgraded, at the height of the alternative facts era.

I knew this largely. One of the more famous propaganda campaigns was when Russia spread the lie throughout Africa that AIDS was created in a US lab and spread through Africa to kill them off. But it's been doing shit like that since the cold war. It lost the technology war, and continues to lose the technology war, so Russia is using information to try and bring the US down.

They've mostly been unsuccessful, but Trump was a wake up call that they're actually gaining some foot holds in showing that their propaganda has legs in the west. Probably because our society has become Huxley's Brave New World. We get bombarded with so much bullshit every day that people can pick and choose what they want to believe. It seems that Orwell and Huxley are both potential end games to all societies, either a surveillance state or information bombardment.

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It’s not a pass... it’s hero worship. For fucks sake, even blaming the fact that oligarchs had the money to buy Russian industry at the fall of communism, on the US. No... if US had it’s way, that Russian industry would not belong to Russian oligarchs. It would belong to American corporations. We had McDonalds in Russia, before we had coupons for food rations, during the fall of communism. It’s absurd... it was America’s fault that while I stood in line with my food coupon, organized crime had the money to buy the Moscow electrical company... go check the history of who owned Moscow electrical company... America’s fault my ass...

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The big mistake that could have prevented all this, is Ukraine giving up its nukes for nothing. Just to show solidarity with the west. If they only knew that Russia would be celebrated, after taking part of Ukraine... they would have never gave them up. This is a lesson other countries should learn. Looking at how NK is acting and the Iran deal break, I think some are noticing.

I mean, I've thoroughly established in the past that Theo is both ignorant of current events and history through links and sourced material, which is extremely ironic considering she's a fucking history major who bragged about berating "dumb" SJW libruhls while she was a master student being a teacher assistant.

But her history specialty seems to be in "How European secret societies bio engineered a super plague to wipe out a highly advanced Native American civilization by sending infected settlers to North America", and it's a pretty well known trope that just because someone has a specialized education in a field, means they're pretty bad at the rest of that field.

Theo has been a mega shitposter since mid 2016, which is a shame because I used to enjoy her posts, but something about marrying a nutso Trumpkin and having his baby has addled her brain completely into only vomiting up shitty conspiracy theories and posts that are completely devoid of self-awareness.

[segara82]

Europe made the mistake after Fall to wait and see instead of more direct political actions.
Instead of planning new Nato bases due to old paranoia we should have pushed for the PCA and PfP back in '91.
Instead we now have a Cold (Staring) War not even 20 years later with big mouths on both sides comparing budgets, army sizes, missiles (and their dicks) to proof who is the bigger, stronger superpower.
So much wasted energy, lives, and money.

[Felya]

Probably because our society has become Huxley's Brave New World. We get bombarded with so much bullshit every day that people can pick and choose what they want to believe. It seems that Orwell and Huxley are both potential end games to all societies, either a surveillance state or information bombardment.

I have been saying this for years. In fact, I used to refer to a @Connal thread where he discussed this very topic. Man... I miss 2015...

I mean, I've thoroughly established in the past that Theo is both ignorant of current events and history through links and sourced material, which is extremely ironic considering she's a fucking history major who bragged about berating "dumb" SJW libruhls while she was a master student being a teacher assistant.

I don’t believe he is a history major.

[Felya]

I think I am saying the same thing Butters is, here:

Transhumanism, Singularity and Gattaca ~ How does this translate over into politics?
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post49935336

Not sure what you miss; the naivete?

Has nothing to do with it...

[Cthulhu 2020]

I don’t believe he is a history major.

I mean, she says she is, and talked about lecturing classes and berating her SJW students. But you're right, it's incredibly suspect given her complete and utter failure of basic historical knowledge that she's just bullshitting all over the forum about being a history major.

(Bonus points because as a history major, she has in the past shit on people getting women's studies degrees, and women's study degrees make higher average salary than history majors)

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But...but Connal, how will we compromise?

The libruhls must bow down before our Trumpkin countrymen, shine their shafts, beg their forgiveness, and ask them if we can throw ourselves on our swords for forgiveness, then let the Trumpkins walk all over us and do what they please with our corpses so there can finally be harmony! Otherwise known as the Connal method of left and right reconciliation.

[Elegiac]

I never said bow down. Usually both sides concede on points, not just the left or right.

With that said, I give up on that happening.

Yes yes, you’re such a martyr for not buying into the partisan system, man.

[Mafic]

I never said bow down. Usually both sides concede on points, not just the left or right.

With that said, I give up on that happening.

Good point.

But don't give up on thinking things can't improve because some believe Russians and Americans can not adapt their respective world views.

[Elegiac]

Martyr? No. I am not blaming anyone, nor do I feel like a victim.

My main feeling is confusion, followed by disappointment at myself.

That’s nice, but it doesn’t change the whole “I am an independent and that makes me a martyr” shtick.

[Elegiac]

I never claimed to be independent, I’ve said over and over I’m on the left.

No, I’m pretty sure I formally revoked your left wing credentials after you tried to equivocate between bigots and civil rights activists.

[shimerra]

You can revoke whatever you want. I am on the left.

So you say.

[Cthulhu 2020]

I never said bow down. Usually both sides concede on points, not just the left or right.

With that said, I give up on that happening.

I mean, it was VERY clear which side was the one refusing to come to the negotiating table. They openly expressed their disdain for ever cooperating or compromising with the other side ever again. They often and loudly stated that they wanted it their way with no concession at all. They were aggressively adamant that politics would only happen in their favor, or government was shutting down.

The other side tried the "Let's talk this out, be friends, and try to understand each other" for almost a decade. Guess what? They got shit upon non stop for playing the nice guy. That side that tried to play nice got kicked to the curve. And now that that side is finally fighting back, we have the woke independents squeezing out of the fray finger wagging at... you guessed it, the left, for not playing nice with the right.

You can probably guess who is who in my above statements. We can go back and analyze statements made openly by the right that they refuse to compromise ever, and that the left needs to get on their knees and beg. Your method of open communication, understanding, temperance, and level headedness was tried for a decade with no success.

[pathora44]

You can revoke whatever you want. I am on the left.

Aw sweet so whatever bullshit comes out of our mouths is true, sweet. (Closing my eyes) Then I am married to Scarlett Johanssan, have all the money I will ever need, and Trump, his cabinet, and all the Republican cronies who support him are in jail where they belong. (Opens my eyes) Aw none of that has happened what a load of shit Connal just like everything Trump says.

[Sunseeker]

You can revoke whatever you want. I am on the left.

The imaginary left that exists on in your head that's willing to throw minorities under the bus to achieve your goals while courting alt-right nutjobs.

Yeah, real "left" of you.

[Sunseeker]

I’m not here to fight you. I give up on politics. You can imagine me however you want.

You post an awful lot about political subjects for having "given up on it".

I like to imagine you're a small bird, like those ones that wake you up at 4-fucking-30 in the morning just chirp-chirp-chirping away, but by 7am they're gone and I can go on with my life. But no matter how many times you say you're going away, there you are, the next morning.