Now that ML is gone, how are all you GM/RL's feeling?

[kamuimac]

Are you delusional?

If ML was such an abuse, why did nearly 90% of guilds utilize it? Why didn't they all collapse and the former members form a guild that used PL?

The majority of guilds don't act like assholes or they wouldn't have players to fill their ranks.

I can already see with your attitude what type of player you were. If I were to guess, you were in a guild with LC and was passed up because you weren't cutting enough mustard to get the best items first. Maybe I'm wrong.

Or maybe you should've started your own guild with PL last expac. Or hell start your own guild now and see how difficult it will be with this change. I dare you.

Unfortunately this change will bring out some crap. Being "forced" to trade an item you don't need to a guild member that could use it more is probably what's best for the guild. If you have an item that you do not need and a member could use it more, that's what's best for the guild to kill future bosses. If you can't play ball with that, then you are more concerned with your own ilvl than your guild's success. At that point, you are selfish and should probably play a single-player RPG.

and why 90 % of people do anyting in raids.

because they blindly copy those top 5 guilds

they copy strats

they copy class stacking

they copy logs analizys even though half of them cant even read it properly but they gonna log even normal clears and look for magical solutions there.

they copy loot distribution (who the fuck heard about loot councils being that spread untill late MoP)

they copy blindly eveyrthing beliving that the fact that they didnt copy it before was stoping them from killing stuff

it wont - what would do the trick would be people not doin grey parses.

[MidnyteTV]

and why 90 % of people do anyting in raids.

because they blindly copy those top 5 guilds

they copy strats

they copy class stacking

they copy logs analizys even though half of them cant even read it properly but they gonna log even normal clears and look for magical solutions there.

they copy loot distribution (who the fuck heard about loot councils being that spread untill late MoP)

they copy blindly eveyrthing beliving that the fact that they didnt copy it before was stoping them from killing stuff

it wont - what would do the trick would be people not doin grey parses.

Up until MoP Flex, master looter was the ONLY option. Personal loot became an option in WoD. Personal loot was mandated for non-guild groups in Legion.

So for years, ALL groups used master looter option (or need/green rolls). There were tons of different loot system, but top-end guilds consolidated under loot council. Remaining guilds used whatever they felt would be best for their group. This expansion will answer a lot of questions regarding this change.

In terms of copying strats, there are not a lot of different strats to use on a boss. There are different tactics, but the overall strategy to beat a boss is made by the players and shared.

Class stacking is nearly all done by the top-end guilds that have players that have the time to roll different alts.

You're right about logs, most people don't know how to read them.

In terms of loot distribution, it's was all player-created. In fact, my guild in HFC through Legion used EPGP with house rules on tier gear.

People not doing grey parses will always help. But the problem there wasn't gear. Don't know why you brought that up.

But once again, if a player didn't like the loot system and it was a deal-breaker, they had the freedom to leave to another guild. Or start their own.

This begs the question, why on earth didn't these disgruntled players start their own guilds? Oh that's right, they're too lazy to do it themselves.

[Spiel]

We are going by major need and roll on ties. 27 players that know each other for long enough and have been raiding 8+ years, so for the most part we are not obsessed about loot. We just want the bosses to go down and laugh/cry while doing so

[Sarevokcz]

If your guild is making people hand items to someone so they can be doled out, then that group has assholes as leaders. ML was removed because Blizzard was sick of the abuse that came with it. What do you think is going to happen if guilds keep on acting like assholes? They will remove the ability to trade items. They better start with guilds first because they are the ones who ruined it in the first place.

Well sure, "forcing people" to hand over the loot sounds horrible.
But unless youre an enchanter, what else are you going to do with an item of same or lower ilevel you have? unless its something very specific, like BiS azerite trait or trinket, I always offered my loot to the group anyway, raids having middle-man ML doesn't really bother me if its distributed fairly and isnt literally "give us your loot or kick"

[skindown]

I will never deal with loot problems again, for all I care, the members can solve between themselves via whisper or some other shit, not during the raid time

Though it can hurt our overall progression if the bad guys keep getting loot all the damn time, we'll adapt, there's always mythic+ if one isn't lucky on raids

[xskarma]

Not the GM nor the RL in my main raid toon's guild, but the people that are in that guild have been incredibly salty about the change and have tried (mostly in vain) to find a solution for the obvious gear distributing that people will want to do with pieces they don't need.

It's not even so much frustration with the new rules limiting gear distribution (we always had need/greed open to anyone that participated in the kill, with only people on their main in the raid getting loot before people on alts did) but mostly frustration with the obviously far more time consuming process that will now be taking place after each kill as players figure out who needs the piece they don't and how to give it to them with the raid typically moving on already to clear trash to the next boss.

We settled on an addon that let's people roll on loot people win IF they give it up for roll, which has a built in button to easily trade if they are within range of eachother. Hopefully that will make the process somewhat okay. I still expect that the first few raids with it on will lead to slow downs after boss kills as people discuss who gets what piece and if they should roll on something or not.

[Great Destiny Man]

It was 6 months ago that we found out the news and here we are still going on about it. "Guys, how can we keep on being assholes and gear our friends first". That's the attitude that lost you ML in the first place and now you're going to get gear trading taken away as well.

Blizzard isn't going to go full nanny state on people. If they start disabling trading due to player disagreements on loot trading where do we draw the line? Do we petition Blizzard to remove the ability to chat because people can say nasty things to us?

Point is removal of Master Loot has done its purpose by not automatically giving one person access to all the loot, it's all based on voluntary participation. Any disagreements on the voluntary participation is completely in the player domain and realistically Blizzard don't have to give 2 shits about it.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Blizzard isn't going to go full nanny state on people. If they start disabling trading due to player disagreements on loot trading where do we draw the line? Do we petition Blizzard to remove the ability to chat because people can say nasty things to us?

Point is removal of Master Loot has done its purpose by not automatically giving one person access to all the loot, it's all based on voluntary participation. Any disagreements on the voluntary participation is completely in the player domain and realistically Blizzard don't have to give 2 shits about it.

Well you may have heard of the silence feature.. you can pretty much be silenced for saying anything if people report you and the robot just does it automaticlly. Also there is nothing voluntary about this participation anymore. ML is gone. So now we all get to live with PL. Took that whole step out. The whole you know.. "fucking quit if you don't want to play by my rules.. MY BALL MY RULES". Now it is the GAMES RULES instead of MY BALL MY RULES. Just a better system.

[Great Destiny Man]

Well you may have heard of the silence feature.. you can pretty much be silenced for saying anything if people report you and the robot just does it automaticlly. Also there is nothing voluntary about this participation anymore. ML is gone. So now we all get to live with PL. Took that whole step out. The whole you know.. "fucking quit if you don't want to play by my rules.. MY BALL MY RULES". Now it is the GAMES RULES instead of MY BALL MY RULES. Just a better system.

Still requires more than 1 person to report you, and that's still a temporary silence not permanent.

Also what's not voluntary about asking someone to trade their gear to be distributed for the raid? You can say yes or no. That's the beauty of the PL system and does not require any further policing by Blizzard.

[Mardux]

I don't know about you guys, but PL sounds like the best choice when you get to throw that 370 cloak in the scapper because PL forced it on you even though you won't ever want it.

"Sorry guy wearing a 345 cloak, people wanted forced PL."

[Jujudrood]

Enjoy spending more time recruiting, once guildies get loot and your guild hits a wall, there is no incentive for them to stay.

If you're ok with it now, cool. But don't come here bitching when your trials snake your gear and ditch you after two weeks for a guild that a boss or two ahead of you.

Considering we are all adults, mostly friends IRL, and are completely fine with normal and heroic progress, this won't happen.
Hasn't in the last 2 xpacs, so I don't see it happening here.

Not everyone has the same situation; a lot of people here are the kind that want to push mythic top 100 and that's fine.
Sucks for the top 100, I guess, while the remaining several thousand guilds are probably going to be just fine.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Also what's not voluntary about asking someone to trade their gear to be distributed for the raid? You can say yes or no. That's the beauty of the PL system and does not require any further policing by Blizzard.

Try to turn on ML. You will see it is not voluntary. Which is for the best. PL is the better option.

[Finifi]

I never had any problems with ML. For me this was never to distribute loot fairly. It was a tool to distribute the loot in a way that helps the raids progress the most. There probably were/are guilds where the officers abused the system, but noone forced you to stay with those kind of people. PL just seems to be more of hassle during raids to me.

[Great Destiny Man]

Try to turn on ML. You will see it is not voluntary. Which is for the best. PL is the better option.

Sir, I think something's broken with your brain. I am in fact talking about PL not ML.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Sir, I think something's broken with your brain. I am in fact talking about PL not ML.

PL is superior. I cannot argue this? I am confused where the conflict is here?

[Great Destiny Man]

PL is superior. I cannot argue this? I am confused where the conflict is here?

No conflict, just a misunderstanding from yourself. I was never talking about Master Loot to begin with, only one making a big point of it is yourself.

[reauxmont]

I feel fucking great. No more having to listen to complaints about how the members of the loot council are supposedly corrupt or biased, no more lists to remember who has gotten how many items, no loot drama in general. It's going to be completely out of the guild members hands, and I'm sure some people will complain about bad luck, but that's way better than accusing another member of the guild.

Raiding's gonna be so much more relaxed this expansion.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

No conflict, just a misunderstanding from yourself. I was never talking about Master Loot to begin with, only one making a big point of it is yourself.

I understand. Glad we agree with PL being better. I mean ML just isnt that great in my opinion.

[heenksa33]

I aint tradin shit

[Mardux]

I never had any problems with ML. For me this was never to distribute loot fairly. It was a tool to distribute the loot in a way that helps the raids progress the most. There probably were/are guilds where the officers abused the system, but noone forced you to stay with those kind of people. PL just seems to be more of hassle during raids to me.

Exactly. ML was a tool to help guilds progress, it wasn't something the mythical ninjas in pug groups used to steal all your "hard earned" pixels.

And like you said, there might have been a couple of corrupt LC, but most of the complaints appear to come from people who care more about their personal iLvl and dps meter than they do about guild progression.

But hey, at least i can laugh when i DE/vendor/scrap that 370 crit/vers cloak as a prot pally since the guild couldn't give it to someone who wants (or better yet, needs) it because "PL is superior" or some horseshit like that.