I will admit that I now believe beta testers had it right. (class mechanics)

[Deleted]

You actually can't compare classes currently vs. end of Legion.
What you can do is comparing the current state with the start of Legion.

There wasn't any set bonus in EN. There was no netherlight crucible / traits. Classes felt slow and less fun because of missing secondary stats.

This are the same things that we are missing now. There is room for new things, I'm sure this space will be used for some shiny new traits in the coming months.

Conveniently you have neglected to mention the weapon with an active ability, several spec-enhancing passives and a golden trait that actually did something interesting. That's what most serious players at minimum had unlocked by this point, and it's already more than BfA's progression system which is...awful.

[Dizzeeyooo]

That's what most serious players at minimum had unlocked by this point, and it's already more than BfA's progression system which is...awful.

their overwhelming priority in designing the azerite system was to create something that would be as painless as possible to remove at the start of the next expansion, so this is not really surprising

[Nyel]

You actually can't compare classes currently vs. end of Legion.
What you can do is comparing the current state with the start of Legion.

You didn't need all of these things. You had one new skill per spec PLUS a ton of traits. Right now you have three lame ass bonuses that barely change anything. On top of that, later on, you added:

- More traits
- Set bonuses
- Legendaries

In BfA you can add on top of the Azerite system:

- Nothing

[losmarios]

Conveniently you have neglected to mention the weapon with an active ability, several spec-enhancing passives and a golden trait that actually did something interesting. That's what most serious players at minimum had unlocked by this point, and it's already more than BfA's progression system which is...awful.

On the active ability, you're right. But alot of specs do still have them or similary talents.
Several Spec-Enhancing passive are not too different to some azerite traits.
Golden traits were not that great, but this may depend on class/spec of course.
I do have more 30+ azerite Traits, and I can choose nine of them. I think this can compete with the early legion progression.

We are now 3 weeks into BFA, no need to be impatient. I'm happy to wait and see what's next.

[Dizzeeyooo]

On the active ability, you're right. But alot of specs do still have them or similary talents

you give up other talents to pick abilities you had passively previously, which is the entire point of this thread

[losmarios]

you give up other talents to pick abilities you had passively previously, which is the entire point of this thread

Okay, as resto druid I only lost some bad traits and the almighty blink, and got others back, i.e. soothe. So this may be biased towards class/specs

[unbound]

My thoughts on my primary characters:

Frost Mage - I can spec for single target and do okay, but it definitely feels clunky. However, when I do this, I'm not the AoE god that people expect to see (I don't keep the AoE Azerite traits either). Definitely a stop down from Legion, but somewhat tolerable.

Elemental Shaman - I can do great AoE damage, and so-so single target. But it is clunky as all get out. Fire shock cooldown more than anything else really destroys the spec in a fast-paced environment. FFS, Blizz should have at least made fire shock available immediately upon your target mobs death.

Both seem to be a bit worse during movement. I'm okay with increased mechanics of a fight, but Blizz seriously needs to re-examine how they handle "turret" casters. I don't mind being a glass canon, but right now, we are only glass.

BM Hunter - Really didn't seem to change much from Legion. I guess I should be happy that they didn't make it worse like the previous 2 classes I've mentioned.

Frost DK - Leveling this toon is a real eye-opener compared to the previous 3. By far, the worst geared toon of the 4 I've focused on so far, and leveling / dungeons have been completely trivial. I've massively over-pulled a few times on this toon and was nowhere near death while I've killed the other 3 for lesser transgressions. Movement doesn't matter with a toon like this which really makes me question why I should bother with my other 3 toons.

[Metallourlante]

The worst part is they'll probably add a couple of Boring Shores as patch content, gloss over the substantive issues and call it the most successful expansion to date.

Sad but most likely true.

[Rascal Bob]

My thoughts on my primary characters:

Frost Mage - I can spec for single target and do okay, but it definitely feels clunky. However, when I do this, I'm not the AoE god that people expect to see (I don't keep the AoE Azerite traits either). Definitely a stop down from Legion, but somewhat tolerable.

Frost DK - Leveling this toon is a real eye-opener compared to the previous 3. By far, the worst geared toon of the 4 I've focused on so far, and leveling / dungeons have been completely trivial. I've massively over-pulled a few times on this toon and was nowhere near death while I've killed the other 3 for lesser transgressions. Movement doesn't matter with a toon like this which really makes me question why I should bother with my other 3 toons.

I don't know if you played the spec I did at the start of Legion(the video I showed) but when I was popping my damage I felt like an absolute God. Now I can pop icy-veins but I'm mostly still sitting there casting frostbolts hoping for procs, I really don't like the fact that we are quite a bit more RNG based then we used to be. But frost isn't a bad spec to play right now and when we get into raiding we can just spec single target and be fine.

And Yeah I have a rogue with whom I'm dabbling into outlaw now and compared to a turret based caster(with low haste since we first have to prioritize crit to cap) it feels a lot smoother when you need to move a lot during fights but that's something I'm not all that worried about since that hopefully changes when we can hit crit cap more easily and can start gemming/enchanting haste.

[Deleted]

Conveniently you have neglected to mention the weapon with an active ability, several spec-enhancing passives and a golden trait that actually did something interesting. That's what most serious players at minimum had unlocked by this point, and it's already more than BfA's progression system which is...awful.

Mages still have their ability, golden traits were shit besides 7.2 trait but it was not there at launch of EN, some still got infused into azerite. Spec. enchanting passives, besides Icy veins CD reduction there was not much of anything good.
I loved Legion... but using this as your argument for "shit BfA" is just... can't be taken serious I bet you were complaining how dull and boring Legion Traits are at the launch, lol

[Jimmyw]

Tell me, what's the real difference between Legion Affliction and BfA Affliction that makes you think the spec now is so much better than it was in Legion with artifact weapon.

- - - Updated - - -



Actually we're playing Legion again because most specs are exactly the same with minor tweaks here and there. Before BfA every expansion drastically changed classes/gameplay.

does it have to be different? I just say I really really like it. I like the choices we have and the different playstyles we get. did we have that in legion as well? yeah we prolly did - that doesnt change its still good ^^

[ToxicFlame]

the wow white knights are amazing. Every expansion it's the same bollocks over and over again.
it's starts of at the latest during alpha where people realize stuff's broken and start complaining... white knights are like "oh its just alpha, they'll fix it by beta".
beta comes around and stuffs still broken ... "chill down, it's only beta, can't expect a fully working game".
expansion launches, still broken, ... "no worries they'll fix it by the time the first raid tier".
first raid tier comes along, nothing changes, ... "we just had the first raid tier, now that they have loads of "data" they are gonna fix it by the next raid tier".
Second raid tier, shit's still fucked, ... "oh well they'll certainly fix it by next expansion".
I swear this circle repeats itself every god damn time since at least cata

[Deleted]

i wish blizzard (and their fanboys) would realise that there are more ways to design a class than rng whack-a-mole specs

and that rnglaw is the most trash spec they have ever designed and they should feel eternal shame for adding that fucking mechanic to this game

[Mafic]

i wish blizzard (and their fanboys) would realise that there are more ways to design a class than rng whack-a-mole specs

and that rnglaw is the most trash spec they have ever designed and they should feel eternal shame for adding that fucking mechanic to this game

BFA outlaw is worse than legion outlaw.

1. Both legion outlaw and bfa outlaw fish for buffs.

But legion outlaw fished for buffs to speed up the spec with true bearing or shark infested waters. 3 and 6 buff roles were possible too. BFA outlaw fishes for grand melee lol and ruthless precision aka shark infested waters. But no 3 or 6 buff roll possible and the buff roll for a 5 roll is reduced. They normalized a 2 buff roll but it is only 1 in 5 chance.

Worse, they had solved the problem with Loaded Dice but they forced it into the talent grid where it competes with Alacrity and SnD. GG

2. Dispatch does nothing and at least Run Through had Greed procs

3. Pistol Shot procs in BFA feel bad compared to legion with blunderbuss.

etc, etc, etc.

[Wildberry]

You actually can't compare classes currently vs. end of Legion.

The start of Legion was nowhere near as bad as the start of BfA, don't even pretend they're comparable.

[Nyel]

does it have to be different? I just say I really really like it. I like the choices we have and the different playstyles we get. did we have that in legion as well? yeah we prolly did - that doesnt change its still good ^^

True but that's exactly my point.

[Deleted]

and ? 99% of playerbase dont play like this .

for casual people game feels much better now that they dont have to manage so much stuff.

i wont lie i really really like BfA class adaptations after leveling up couple of them . they feel much smoother and generaly much more fun to play .

i really enjoy gameplay being slower too - gives me much more time to focus on encounters and mechanics

finally wow start to feel like mmorpg not like action rpg like it felt in last couple of years - the change they did to gcd and haste were perfect.

I do not agree with you .. unfortunately the current player-base has ruined this game bringing it to be the only "happy island" (this is one of the main reasons for the fact that wow is more played since 2003/2004) in the world MMOs to be like the other MMOs and you know why?
The reason that many players are not able to push two fucking keys properly and be careful about what they do .. and instead of putting a minimum of effort to improve their game, begin to cry saying that it is too difficult this game . Since the player-base makes up the majority of the wow population of course for $$ reasons the blizz has to pay attention to these people .. result really bad classes .. thanks player-base.

[lockybalboa]

Fanboys: "It's only beta", "It's only 8.0" , It's only 8.1", "It's only 8.3", "Wait for the next expansion", "It's only beta"...........

[docterfreeze]

Really don't understand why the new class design team has such a hard on for procs. Every single dps spec has a RNG proc. Crits should be the only RNG some specs should worry about. The more control I have over my damage the better imo.

[Deleted]

OP playing rogue and mage but complaining is a sure case of l2p.