Why are people obsessed with doing skips in M+

[Flarelaine]

I hate doing skips in pugs as a tank. Especially when i''m not 100% sure on the needed trash %

If the dps is decent enough and we don't wipe u easily make timer.

I like skipping a pack or two, simply because I can see they are not needed.

However, I had to go back quite a few times because there's always some dps who fails to understand that I'm hugging the wall for a reason...

[Magnagarde]

This is one of those questions that leave me scratching my head. Like, isn't it obvious why? Timing.

[burek]

This is one of those questions that leave me scratching my head. Like, isn't it obvious why? Timing.

But when most of the skips in pugs actually fail, it's not obvious at all. You're better off not trying to skip. The time I have lost in pugs on failed skips is much greater than the time I have gained on successful ones.

[Magnagarde]

But when most of the skips in pugs actually fail, it's not obvious at all. You're better off not trying to skip. The time I have lost in pugs on failed skips is much greater than the time I have gained on successful ones.

Well yeah, I agree when it comes to pugs. I do M+ with more or less the same people all the time.

I remember that it took one pug in a high level DHT to get all the cats pulled after the tree jump. DHT and CoS were the worst when it comes to pulling extra, though I was used to seeing some unconventional pulls in EoA, HoV and so on. BfA definitely has its share of dungeons that are bad to do with pugs.

[Flarelaine]

I would rather waste 20 min of my day teaching someone how to do something so they know what to do the next time they are in that scenario.

I'm quite glad there are people like that. Shouts out to the guy who showed me how to pull in Siege.

[unbound]

Why spent 30minutes doing something that you can do in 25minutes?

That's 1 extra dungeon every 5.

And people wonder why we get bored with video games so quickly...

[osmo]

Not sure what there is to explore in dungeons you've done 20 times already other than how to do them faster.

well again there are ppl that play the game for the game, the whole thing not just see dungeons/leveling etc as gated stuff because you want to raid as end goal

also, where do you think your route comes from, who makes/discovers short cuts , who does the math of pull packs x and y
who discovers spellstealable buff x en y

well the ppl that dont rush it , they are exploring... you pluck the fruits of labor, but it also means you just follow a script made and found out by someone else

aside from that, because its pre work to yes race an instance its also fun
most dungeons have hidden or neat stuff you dont see if you race

for example :

nelth lair has several hidden spots, granted they are for an achievement
shrine has a skip with a light, do you know what i mean
boralus has a convo between 2 notable npc's you wont see if you race, also there is a summonable boss (by engineer or bs iirc)
have you seen the special npc prisoner in tol'dagor?
have you seen the npc in waycrest in a room thats not always open or opens when you finish the dungeon
what does the cola right infront of the door for the 1st boss in motherlode do?

did you use the wooden toy before it was clear where you could drop to rezan in atal without being ported? (wod gold challenge mode tactics to avoid port barriers)

have you ever went into a dungeon with friends and got drunk (in game so the screen blures and your walking is messed up)
tried to do a boss mechanic very wonky or see if you can ignore it or beter yet bug it
ever saw something and just stood still to look at it without someone yelling kick afk-er/gogogo
cleared a whole instance (all trash incl yellow) just to roleplay a take over and chill there with some friends

some ppl how unbelievable it is... enjoy the whole game not just end game content
they see the dungeon as fun as a playground as a experiment zone, not just a means to gear up for something else

[Saverem]

As a tank, I also agree about the part of having to figure out trash %. If you run the same dungeon with the same group multiple times, you'll get the hang of it, but if you're pugging and have different people, it's always different shit. Some times you'll have Rogue for multiple skips, sometimes you'll have a Lock for different skips, etc.

[Deleted]

Ah so skipping trash is only effective for certain groups? Which groups is it not effective for? I'm not saying that the point of m+ is to skip trash. I'm saying that if you aren't skipping trash you don't understand the fundamental part of m+ which is to beat the dungeon as fast as possible.

It should be sad explanatory to even the most hardcore non-pugger when it’s not effective to try and skip trash. The concept of mythic plus is that you get loot of you clear it and you get an additional piece of loot and a higher key the faster you beat the time. That’s it. Skipping trash is worth it if it’s faster and safe and still keeps you within 100%, which isn’t alwAys the case with premade groups and certainly not pugs

[Tech614]

Well, that either means you are doing trivial content (compared to your groups equipment) or you don't care about making it in time, where "in time" can mean anything from 3 chesting it (for chances of more loot) to completing it at all (as you are for example content with the level of the m+ for the weekly).

That's absolutely fine, but then all members of the group should also have agreed to those conditions.

I'm not sure what part of most hard skips will result in failure and more lost time then they save you don't understand but no, the group doesn't have to agree to anything. I am the tank and I control the pace of the group, if you don't like it you should be the tank and not have to PUG me.

When I am in controlled groups with my friends who all know how to play each other that is the time for try harding, with randoms the goal is to complete shit as efficiently as possible for people you don't know. This isn't rocket science.

[ydraw]

So far I'm 0/10 trying to skip groups with rogue shroud this expansion lol.

That said some groups are just worth taking the time to skip, even if you have to stop and tell people that we're skipping. The double spiritualist pull before the first boss in SoS comes to mind, as well as ticks in underrot and few others that I can't think of right now.

[Puri]

I'm not sure what part of most hard skips will result in failure and more lost time then they save you don't understand but no, the group doesn't have to agree to anything. I am the tank and I control the pace of the group, if you don't like it you should be the tank and not have to PUG me.

When I am in controlled groups with my friends who all know how to play each other that is the time for try harding, with randoms the goal is to complete shit as efficiently as possible for people you don't know. This isn't rocket science.

If you don't skip trash and do hordes of trash more than necessary, and you don't make it in time because if that, it isn't as efficiently as possible. This also isn't rocket science.

[Tic Tacs]

I hate doing skips in pugs as a tank. Especially when i''m not 100% sure on the needed trash %

If the dps is decent enough and we don't wipe u easily make timer.

Are you serious or just trolling? M+ are timed and if you know how to skip while getting 100% you most definitely should.

[dirtybrew]

Are you serious or just trolling? M+ are timed and if you know how to skip while getting 100% you most definitely should.

Skipping is bad in pugs unless it is an idiot proof obvious skip. I 2 chest 10 keys this week in yolo pugs pulling everything with almost no skips. The dps being high and not wiping matter a million times more than killing the perfect percentage of mobs using fancy skips. As a competent high geared tank I can control pace and guarantee a safe run if i'm not relying on weird skips that have a decent chance of failure.

[Ragnarohk]

Ahhh, still remember this. It wasn't even time back then, people jus treat the game as a job and want to Rush everything.

[Karlz0rz]

Why is literally everyone ignoring his original statment about "pugs"? Like 90% of the times in pugs, when you try to skip, some fucktard will pull it and you waste more time than you gain.
If you are running a guild group or with friends, sure, go for it. But I hate that shit with a passion in pugs.

[Easo]

That is why I do not like M+. It is always the gogogogogogogfasttererererrrrr mentality.
But... This is the second week, people are still learning where you really should skip or where it might be simpler to just kill that add group. I care not for the top key pushers, i am here to do the instance, prefereably without too much pain.

[Tech614]

If you don't skip trash and do hordes of trash more than necessary, and you don't make it in time because if that, it isn't as efficiently as possible. This also isn't rocket science.

Not doing complicated skips does not mean you full clear the entire dungeon and fail to complete it in the time you wish to.

I know this seems rather complicated for you, but it's not.

[Tic Tacs]

Skipping is bad in pugs unless it is an idiot proof obvious skip. I 2 chest 10 keys this week in yolo pugs pulling everything with almost no skips. The dps being high and not wiping matter a million times more than killing the perfect percentage of mobs using fancy skips. As a competent high geared tank I can control pace and guarantee a safe run if i'm not relying on weird skips that have a decent chance of failure.

How is tank controls pace? What are you taking a smoke break every pull? If you have good dps then yes you can pull entire instance and probably get +2 but in higher keys, good luck with that.

[Puri]

Not doing complicated skips does not mean you full clear the entire dungeon and fail to complete it in the time you wish to.

I know this seems rather complicated for you, but it's not.

I know this might come as a surprise to you, but the case that you can easily clear 125% of the trash and still be easily in time falls under my first mentioned category of "doing trivial content relative to your group item level", which most PUGs are.