I don't get the negativity regarding BFA

[Deleted]

We LOST tier sets, artifact traits/ability and legendaries. and Azerite traits are ment to replace em, and that shit has failed.

You gained new sets that haven't been in the game before. You gained new abilities with the Azerite traits, and the legendary were bound to be replaced by new gear, did you expect to keep the same legendaries forever? How does any of what you mentioned make the game bad?

[Aydinx2]

Top-tier players aren't calling the game a cesspool of shit. Sure, complaints are probably around, but no one from Method is saying the game is unplayable garbage. Most of the complaints about the game don't even effect the incredibly hardcore players, stuff like 'Azerite sucks, it feels terrible getting a 40 ilvl upgrade but it's a downgrade because I can't access the traits'. Hardcore players can already access the traits.

Let's start off with saying the obvious: Top-tier players are an extremely tiny amount of the playerbase.
Secondly, I never said they said the game is unplayable. I said they are complaining, which they are.

[Deleted]

Quests, dungeons and raids are not exactly new features

New quests, dungeons and raids are new content.

nor are they the vast majority of the content.

What game are you playing?

Maybe world-quests count, but those aren't new either.

How are they not? Stop trolling.

[Armourboy]

You gained new sets that haven't been in the game before. You gained new abilities with the Azerite traits, and the legendary were bound to be replaced by new gear, did you expect to keep the same legendaries forever? How does any of what you mentioned make the game bad?

The problem is you are looking at them as items when everyone else are looking at them as systems. Azerite traits replaced tier sets, legendaries, and artifact traits/new abilities as a system, and as was told to them countless times in alpha/beta it is failing miserably at it's job as a system to replace all of those.

[Jamie081]

You suggest the major features of BFA aren't living up to expectations but it's okay because the questing, dungeons and zones are great? So like WoD, it has a decent leveling experience which turns to shit at max level

[Aydinx2]

that's kinda the point, to tone down the ridic shit.

It wasn't ridiculous though.
AP was a system of "gain resources, gain power" with not much (if any) choice, except maybe the very first few weeks.
Set bonuses didn't give any issues either. You had the set bonus or you didn't.

Legendaries were a bit more of a problem because of their impact and the fact that so much content gave a chance to drop it, making people play almost too much.

The problem is that they didn't just ditch 1 system or tone one down, they just removed 2 systems and gutted another.
They should've just removed the legendary system and kept the sets/artifact path.

[Mafic]

Major features of the expansion don't work and classes are not in a finished state. I mean even WoW devs admitted this yesterday because the expansion was rushed.

[Eurhetemec]

The systems funtion, but they have no life, nothing to make you want to keep doing them. There is nothing in BfA that gives you that " oh wow, that's neat " moment, outside of the art and cinematics.

I don't think I'd be quite as harsh as that, but there is a definite lack "FUCK YEAH I DID IT!" or the classic "Wow I got handed something I shouldn't have been!" (which both Artifacts and Legendaries kind of provided in Legion, for example) in BfA so far. Perhaps that will change, but yeah... I mean the Heart of Azeroth is cool and all, but it's just some numbers, it doesn't DO anything. Imagine if it actually DID something? Like had a class-specific cooldown or sometimes saved your life when you were dying? I mean yeah it does stuff in the WQs, but it could be so much more of a cool thing.

TBH I wouldn't see it as a huge problem if it weren't for the same reasons it was a huge problem for WoD. I've had lots of friends make a come back after skipping Legion due to WoD, or they haven't played in several expansions but heard so many positives from Legion they decided to give it a try and this lifeless mass is what they come back to again.

I don't think it'll seem as bad to someone coming back from further ago, but compared to Legion it's an issue. As someone who was subbed for most of WoD, I cannot see it as being "WoD bad", because there's SO much more to do and so much more of it is actually at least decently designed, and also fuck Garrisons forever, but yeah there needs to less blandness, more peculiarity, more things that slightly annoy you but in like a good way, a way that maybe propels you to jealous action or the like (levelling a new profession for example).

[rohoz]

It wasn't ridiculous though.
AP was a system of "gain resources, gain power" with not much (if any) choice, except maybe the very first few weeks.
Set bonuses didn't give any issues either. You had the set bonus or you didn't.

Legendaries were a bit more of a problem because of their impact and the fact that so much content gave a chance to drop it, making people play almost too much.

The problem is that they didn't just ditch 1 system or tone one down, they just removed 2 systems and gutted another.
They should've just removed the legendary system and kept the sets/artifact path.

So that you could complain that you can't level your weapon fast enough, like last expansion launch? Pass.

[schwarzkopf]

Few? Like all of them ?

No - like a few. But thanks for demonstrating my point.

[rohoz]

Major features of the expansion don't work and classes are not in a finished state. I mean even WoW devs admitted this yesterday because the expansion was rushed.

that's not what was said at all.

- - - Updated - - -

based on what, the fact that blizzard has said certain specs have to wait till 8.1 to not feel like complete ass to play?

This is not unique at all, classes get changed all the time. full reworks are not that uncommon. at least 1 happened in every expansion, and in WoTLK dk literally got full reworks every major content patch.

[Mafic]

that's not what was said at all.

That is exactly what Ion said yesterday.

[rohoz]

That is exactly what Ion said yesterday.

From your posts I can tell that you lack basic comprehension skills, so if that's what you interpreted, I feel bad for you.

[Mafic]

From your posts I can tell that you lack basic comprehension skills, so if that's what you interpreted, I feel bad for you.

You can accuse me of lacking basic reading comprehension skills but all I have to do is post a link to shut down your arrogance:

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20769007590

[shaunika123]

You gained new sets that haven't been in the game before. You gained new abilities with the Azerite traits, and the legendary were bound to be replaced by new gear, did you expect to keep the same legendaries forever? How does any of what you mentioned make the game bad?

I expected good ones to be baked in at the very least

and not just for a few classes.

also you dont get new abilities by azerite traits 99% of them dont even alter your gameplay

[Armourboy]

I don't think I'd be quite as harsh as that, but there is a definite lack "FUCK YEAH I DID IT!" or the classic "Wow I got handed something I shouldn't have been!" (which both Artifacts and Legendaries kind of provided in Legion, for example) in BfA so far. Perhaps that will change, but yeah... I mean the Heart of Azeroth is cool and all, but it's just some numbers, it doesn't DO anything. Imagine if it actually DID something? Like had a class-specific cooldown or sometimes saved your life when you were dying? I mean yeah it does stuff in the WQs, but it could be so much more of a cool thing.



I don't think it'll seem as bad to someone coming back from further ago, but compared to Legion it's an issue. As someone who was subbed for most of WoD, I cannot see it as being "WoD bad", because there's SO much more to do and so much more of it is actually at least decently designed, and also fuck Garrisons forever, but yeah there needs to less blandness, more peculiarity, more things that slightly annoy you but in like a good way, a way that maybe propels you to jealous action or the like (levelling a new profession for example).

Actually the only system in place that really gives you more to do than what you had in WoD is mythic+. Island Expeditions, Warfronts and WQ's are the exact same type of content that failed in WoD because they offered nothing of value, either in fun or upgrades, they just had a different name. Heck Garrisons still essentially exists, it's just in a form that offers very little so no one really cares anymore. You don't even have the crappola follower system to fall back on in BfA.

[Wnderful Weeknd]

Let's start off with saying the obvious: Top-tier players are an extremely tiny amount of the playerbase.
Secondly, I never said they said the game is unplayable. I said they are complaining, which they are.

My post was replying to someone saying 'the game is a cesspool of shit for top-tier players'. You just ignoring that part or what?

[Ungeir]

BFA would be fine if not for:
1) obscene amount of bugs
2) unfinished class design

I want to see if 8.1 is gonna remedy any of the above. But probably they're just gonna rush another bug ridden, overtuned dungeon instead of spending time on fixing what should be fixed, because playerbase wants "content", not quality.

3) unfinished systems
4) much less content than Legion

Islands and Warfronts are unfinished, the AMA pretty much confirmed that they were unable to realize the design goals in time for release (in my opinion this points at them not having enough programmers and qa for BfA).

While the amount of content is at least par with MoP and higher than WoD - it's still much less than what we had in Legion. We were shown with Legion what they can do content-wise if they allocate enough resources.

But I very much agree on 2), which is a travesty considering that Legion had serious class design/balance issues as well. Again, I think they're hurt by not having enough programmers and qa to what's needed here.

I like BfA a lot - there's a lot of good things about it. But I also feel ripped off that they sold me an unfinished expansion at full price - and it's rather sad to know that they could've done much better if the team was given the time and resources they need.

I can't help but suspect that Classic or some non-public crisis (either on this project or another) is/was a serious drain on technical resources. Deciding to make Classic was a huge mistake - it expect that it will fail horribly to make a return on investment and be abandoned so quickly by players that it becomes a PR problem for Blizzard. Such a development may lead to an increased investment in WoW's next expansion or it may lead to executives gutting WoW as a whole. Sadly I think it will be the latter.

TL;DR - BfA is the quite possibly the first indication of how Classic will be the WoW-killer and provide a depressing and ironic swansong for a great game.

[cronotose]

To be honest, I had a lot of fun with this expansion. Sure, there are some things that bother me, but every expansion has those. I don't like the Heart of Azeroth or the Azerite Armor system, island expeditions are kinda fun but could have cooler rewards and Warzones are only interesting from a lore standpoint. Having to unlock Allied races with a long rep grind is dumb and takes the fun out of it. I even still begrudge the fact we can not fly.

But in spite of all of this, Battle For Azeroth is a decent expansion. It has 6 zones, where Legion only had 5 and one of those was heavily gated for max level. Zandalar especially looks awesome, and characters like Bwonsamdi are really cool. I even love Nathanos in this expansion, and I usually hate the Forsaken. Visually, this expansion looks just gorgeous. I can't remember the last time when an expansion actually had leveling and dungeon gear sets that I liked. The zones look beautiful.

All in all, I would say that this expansion had to offer pretty much all the things every other expansion offered. New content in the form of quests, dungeons and a raid. And certainly not lacking in quality either. So why all this doom and gloom?

You say you don't understand it, but you directly explain how every major system instituted in the expansion has serious problems. Then the only up sides you present are about the number of zones and the art design, neither of which have anything to do with the actual gameplay itself. If you want to understand the negativity, just reread your post and imagine a person who cares about all the things you pointed out problems with, and doesn't care about the things you complimented.

[Armourboy]

3) unfinished systems
4) much less content than Legion

Islands and Warfronts are unfinished, the AMA pretty much confirmed that they were unable to realize the design goals in time for release (in my opinion this points at them not having enough programmers and qa for BfA).

While the amount of content is at least par with MoP and higher than WoD - it's still much less than what we had in Legion. We were shown with Legion what they can do content-wise if they allocate enough resources.

But I very much agree on 2), which is a travesty considering that Legion had serious class design/balance issues as well. Again, I think they're hurt by not having enough programmers and qa to what's needed here.

I like BfA a lot - there's a lot of good things about it. But I also feel ripped off that they sold me an unfinished expansion at full price - and it's rather sad to know that they could've done much better if the team was given the time and resources they need.

I can't help but suspect that Classic or some non-public crisis (either on this project or another) is/was a serious drain on technical resources. Deciding to make Classic was a huge mistake - it expect that it will fail horribly to make a return on investment and be abandoned so quickly by players that it becomes a PR problem for Blizzard. Such a development may lead to an increased investment in WoW's next expansion or it may lead to executives gutting WoW as a whole. Sadly I think it will be the latter.

TL;DR - BfA is the quite possibly the first indication of how Classic will be the WoW-killer and provide a depressing and ironic swansong for a great game.

I might buy the Classic excuse if we hadn't already seen this from them long before Classic was a thing. Classic has it's own design team, and if they let Classic get in the way of other sub systems like the networking/server crews then they deserve any backlash they get for being that stupid.