Elemental 8.1 PTR Changes

[Ragnarocket]

I admit I don't play shaman and thus don't know their underlying issues. But if Blizz wants them to be the turret caster but with barely any tools to offset the fact that most bosses require movement, then they need to give them tools that accentuates those benefits.

I dunno if this is OP or not, but I thought of the following ability:

Earthguard
Insant cast
1 minute cooldown
Shield yourself in an earthen barrier, reducing all damage taken by 60% and becoming immune to knockback effects for 4 seconds.
Max 2 charges.

I think this would allow shamans to not only be able to absorb major AoE mechanics, and thus allow them to just stand there and cast spells, but also gives them an alternate roll of being able to manage soak effects (think Kil'Jaeden meteors).

I dunno, sounded good in my head. Probably not as good in practice.

Something like this gets people extremely mad for some reason, I think they assume it would essentially become too "easy mode" if a spec could ignore a mechanic but I disagree. Honestly I think if they made the duration on the defenses short enough it essentially becomes a skill check. Do you know when the mechanic is going to come out? Better hit the button at the right time or else bad times. Instead of ALWAYS having to move out of the shit you can test the Shaman another way, obviously they should still have to occasionally move but I mean Mage gets Ice Block and they are supposed to be the MOBILE caster...

[bonewax]

I admit I don't play shaman and thus don't know their underlying issues. But if Blizz wants them to be the turret caster but with barely any tools to offset the fact that most bosses require movement, then they need to give them tools that accentuates those benefits.

I dunno if this is OP or not, but I thought of the following ability:

Earthguard
Insant cast
1 minute cooldown
Shield yourself in an earthen barrier, reducing all damage taken by 60% and becoming immune to knockback effects for 4 seconds.
Max 2 charges.

I think this would allow shamans to not only be able to absorb major AoE mechanics, and thus allow them to just stand there and cast spells, but also gives them an alternate roll of being able to manage soak effects (think Kil'Jaeden meteors).

I dunno, sounded good in my head. Probably not as good in practice.

There's so much more that could be done with this class. Ghost wolf should have more appeal with faster speed or mobility. Elementals should be able to use more abilities like a stun or root. Whatever happened to totems that actually helped us instead of being incredibly situational? Earth shield should make our healing insta cast like enhance gets. The list goes on and on but its clear that shaman is going to get the "hybrid tax" again in this expansion. If i want to roll an effective hybrid im heading for druid.

[Nyel]

*snip*

I wish I could be as optimistic as you about Elemental Shaman. None of the announced changes leave me positive at the moment. I admit their willingness to create new talents but they don't tackle our issues. The LB buff does neither when it comes hand in hand with an unnecessary ES nerf.

[madmossy]

It seems Blizzard fail to realize what their own game dictates, any fight with movement (which is all of them) mean any class that has a substantial amount of its damage come from hard casting abilities will do poorly.

Why else do they think BM is absolutely destroying everyone in raids, they are highly mobile with decent damage. Affliction warlocks have good mobility (moving and dotting) but they still have a few spells that are cast. Shadow bolt spam for when you have nothing to do and Unstable Affliction which due to its nature you can pool your soul shards and unlease 4-5 UA's while your standing still for a few seconds.

Every other class, that's 9 of them that rely on hard casting spells are doing less than average or just plain garbage currently when it comes to DPS. Blizzard didn't just mess up class balance this expansion, they completely screwed the pooch, In the almost 14 years I have been playing WoW I cannot remember a time when it was this bad for over all class balance.

[Kralljin]

I wish I could be as optimistic as you about Elemental Shaman.

It's hardly about optimism, i've just taken a look at what the LB Buff entails.

The point is, even if Elemental was from a tuning PoV really bad, the basic function / interaction did work in their intended fashion, that LB buff however upsets a few really basic things.

Not using CL on two targets is just weird and goes against common sense that leaves anyone confused who reads the tooltip of these two spells.
Icefury will possibly be a Dps loss, as Icefury itself will deal less damage than LB and even a buffed FrS will hardly surpass LB, talents being bad is one thing, talents being a dps loss is another.

Just to be clear on that, this is not a "we need X to be viable" thing, it's a "EQ is better than ES on ST" thing and those things have been fixed by Blizzard in the past.

[Ele man]

My opinion is that dev need to patch LvB to change it to dev's intent.
LvB is so common that people want to fill all the casting time with LvB.
dev need to increase the cooldown and damage of LvB.

So when using LvB you should feel like you are using a strong spell.
This will also help to maintain the strength of the AS.
This also helps to maintain the strength of LB as reasonably desired by Blizzard.
Increase LvB cooldown by 12 seconds and damage 1.5 times. This will effectively increase the 2target dps of ele.

Now I think ele is in a big change now.
You must forget old ele. old ele has been useless for many years. We have to change everything new.
You have to present a lot of good opinions.

[whyabadi]

I think it's time for Lava Burst to be instant baseline. Everything will just flow smoothly and Ascendance might actually match the new Stormkeeper in terms of throughput and utility (damage during movement).

[Socialhealer]

I think it's time for Lava Burst to be instant baseline. Everything will just flow smoothly and Ascendance might actually match the new Stormkeeper in terms of throughput and utility (damage during movement).

this would fix a lot of things really, no need for spiritwalkers grace, ascendance doesn't need lava burst to be OP to be worth it because you get the mobility, and elemental gains some mobility.

as much as blizzard have their heads licking each others colon that elemental is supposed to be a immobile. they don't design their encounters to let elemental ever excel at anything.

[trm90]

It's hardly about optimism, i've just taken a look at what the LB Buff entails.

The point is, even if Elemental was from a tuning PoV really bad, the basic function / interaction did work in their intended fashion, that LB buff however upsets a few really basic things.

Not using CL on two targets is just weird and goes against common sense that leaves anyone confused who reads the tooltip of these two spells.
Icefury will possibly be a Dps loss, as Icefury itself will deal less damage than LB and even a buffed FrS will hardly surpass LB, talents being bad is one thing, talents being a dps loss is another.

Just to be clear on that, this is not a "we need X to be viable" thing, it's a "EQ is better than ES on ST" thing and those things have been fixed by Blizzard in the past.

I agree with you re: Icefury.

As for using CL in 2 targets+, no offence at all, but I'm not really convinced by your arguments here. A lot of DPS specs (including us to some degree, with EQ) follow the rule that you should AoE on at least 3 targets. It's really not as counterintuitive as you're making it out to be, it's especially not comparable to using EQ > ES on ST. I would agree that it might be misleading because historically Elemental swaps LB for CL once a new target comes in, but changing the priority to 3 targets isn't degenerate gameplay.

[Nyel]

I think it's time for Lava Burst to be instant baseline. Everything will just flow smoothly and Ascendance might actually match the new Stormkeeper in terms of throughput and utility (damage during movement).

For me Ascendence never felt like a (good) DPS CD. Lava Burst damage is too low, casting times too high and you have the issue with Flame Shock possibly running out or the GCD thing when activated during Heroism/Bloodlust. Ascendence is for me one of the worst DPS CD in game right now.

[Deleted]

NEW TALENT TREE
15) Exposed Elements - Echo of the Elements - Elemental Blast*
30) Aftershock - Call of Thunder - Totem Mastery
45) Spirit Wolf - Earth Shield - Static Charge
60) Unlimited Power - Storm Elemental - Liquid Magma Totem
75) Nature's Guardian - Ancestral Guidance - Wind Rush Totem
90) Surge of Power - Primal Elementalist - Master of the Elements
100) Icefury* - Stormkeeper - Ascendance

ECHO OF THE ELEMENTS REWORK
In addition to Lava Burst (2x) adds a Flame Shock charge (2x)

SURGE POWER REWORK
- Flame Shock: the next Flame Shock DoT is always critical
- Lighting Bolt: Your next 2 casts will cause an additional Elemental Overload
- Lava Burst: Reduces the cooldown of your Fire (or Storm) Elemental by 6 sec
- Frost Shock: Roots the target in place for 6 sec

ASCENDANCE REWORK
The Shaman transforms into a being of raw elemental energy.
Each time you cast Lava Burst, you have a 1% change to gain Ascendance for 15 sec. For each Lava Burst, you gain a 1% stacking increased Ascendance change. Effect ends when Ascendance is up. While in the form of a Flame Ascendant, Lava Burst has no cooldown and Chain Lightning is empowered to become Lava Beam.

Elemental Blast* and Icefury* must be buffed.

Could they be valid?

[Diatribe]

I'd take how we were in Legion and be perfectly fine with that to be honest.

[Kralljin]

I agree with you re: Icefury.

As for using CL in 2 targets+, no offence at all, but I'm not really convinced by your arguments here. A lot of DPS specs (including us to some degree, with EQ) follow the rule that you should AoE on at least 3 targets. It's really not as counterintuitive as you're making it out to be, it's especially not comparable to using EQ > ES on ST. I would agree that it might be misleading because historically Elemental swaps LB for CL once a new target comes in, but changing the priority to 3 targets isn't degenerate gameplay.

While your reasoning is not entirely wrong, there are specs that have a clear enabler if a certain ability is supposed to be used only on three or more targets, Trick Shot for MM or Cleave for Arms as an example.

If there is no outright trigger / enabler, then usually cleave(ish) type of abilities find their way into two target priority, Beast Cleave for example.
The transition from LB to CL is with those changes simply far too watered down, intuition for most people says that CL should be used on two targets, but then the numbers might not match up, the reduced Mastery Proc chance makes this even muddier.

Lastly, all this talk from Ion about niches also has to show some results, not saying it will be a lot or statisfying, but i'd be surprised if they didn't come up with the totally unexpected decision that Elemental should be good at AoE, which it isn't really at the moment.
Earthquake is already being used on two targets, with ES also being nerfed, EQ buffs aren't an option, that leaves CL, which also plays into their whole idea that Lightning Spell(s) should also take a more dominant role for Elemental again.

15) Exposed Elements - Echo of the Elements - Elemental Blast*

Exposed Elements suffers the fate it deserves in 8.1..
This talent is the remnant of a scrapped ES / EQ rework during Alpha and our dear devs wasted their "Elemental time" probably on designing, coding & trying to make this stupid mechanic work rather than just come up with mechanics that are actually fun.

I'd even take the utterly useless Earthen Rage over this, simply to have the possibility removed of that talent ever becoming the Meta choice.

ECHO OF THE ELEMENTS REWORK
In addition to Lava Burst (2x) adds a Flame Shock charge (2x)

Lets make EotE even more attractive.

The Shaman transforms into a being of raw elemental energy.
Each time you cast Lava Burst, you have a 1% change to gain Ascendance for 15 sec. For each Lava Burst, you gain a 1% stacking increased Ascendance change. Effect ends when Ascendance is up. While in the form of a Flame Ascendant, Lava Burst has no cooldown and Chain Lightning is empowered to become Lava Beam.

No offense, but the design of the Smoldering Heart Legendary was already stupid to activate a CD such as Ascendance on a totally random basis.
Cooldowns such as these must be on use, because it is important that they are up at the right moments, not during some random situations.

[HeyItsPato]

All these changes and blablabla ... we increase the dps or is it just a change of mechanics ?

[Kalisandra]

My idea for fixing Elemental AoE:

Reduce ChL's cast time to 1.5s, adjusting damage and MS generation as required.

Put declining damage per bounce back onto ChL, allowing its base damage to be buffed. This will strengthen damage on small AoE packs without making damage on large packs go crazy.

Put more damage into ChL, leaving EQ's primary role being damage to large (6+) AoE packs.

There's nothing wrong with having simple 'Sith Lord' AoE on 3-5 targets.

For Single Target DPS I'm not so sure, but if LB is buffed at the expense of Earth Shock, then LvB and Frost Shock need to also be buffed. LvB will need a buff so it feels worth hard casting - it should never have lower base damage than LB in my opinion, because that just feels bad. FS will need a buff so that Icefury is worth using, and so that movement doesn't hurt quite so much - making base damage equal to LB still makes LB superior, so there's room for some buffing here.

[Deleted]

@Kralljin

I also think Exposed Elements is not a good talent but I find it more interesting than Earthen Rage.
EotE more attractive? yes, when I need to spread Flame Shock but if you buff Elemental Blast it may not always be the first choice.
Now, Ascendance is too weak to be a talent that activates every 3 min. How could they modify it to really make it a decent burst of damage?

[Deleted]

take the cd off flame shock baseline is all that is needed.

[HeyItsPato]

Can someone explain me? What do you want to blizzard all this? it is perfect that the elemental shaman has changes, but blizzard has to think what he wants, improve it in the field of mechanics, improve it in that more people play it in M+, raise the dps.

[Deleted]

Elemental is doing great.


the majority of players are terrible at the game so blamed their performance on the class. Now Blizzard have been forced to completely strip it down and make it even more simple for you donkeys to play.

Your first expansion or something? Sounds like you never experienced time when Elemental were actually enjoyable. All classes now are for monkeys.

[Kralljin]

Reduce ChL's cast time to 1.5s, adjusting damage and MS generation as required.

If those people that constantly suggest a reduced casttime could only go back to Cata / MoP era where secondary stat scaling was a massive issue for Ele because you got GCD locked at 15% Haste + any Random Haste (=Bloodlust / Trinket / Legendary Meta gem) on multiple spells because they had 1.5 sec casttime.

Changing Lvb and CL to a 2.0 Cast was welcomed by pretty much everybody back then and reversing that would just bring back the problems that some people have forgotten already.

@Kralljin

I also think Exposed Elements is not a good talent but I find it more interesting than Earthen Rage.

The talent is just horribly designed because it just further reinforces the weakness of target switch.
Second, because of the changes made to Stormkeeper & Surge of Power introduction, the Talent would destroy any other option because the Stormkeeper / Surge of Power synergy is by itself already utterly insane.

EotE more attractive? yes, when I need to spread Flame Shock but if you buff Elemental Blast it may not always be the first choice.
Now, Ascendance is too weak to be a talent that activates every 3 min. How could they modify it to really make it a decent burst of damage?

EB is kinda attractive by itself if there is a lot of target switch going on, so both EotE and EB have a similiar / same niche.
The best solution regarding EB would be simply to ditch Unlimited Power, put on the 100 Tier, give it some Splash Damage and buff its overall damage.

How to fix Ascendance? Buff it, or give it some passive bonus to Lava Burst.