why bring a rogue to a raid?

[nToxik]

This has to be a troll thread. Seriously.

[Mazzeric]

If you don't think immunity to raid mechanics is good utility, you probably raid at a level where class utility is irrelevant.

[Alcsaar]

so what?

guilds are still not bringing more than 4-5 melees to fights....

go get 8/8 with 10 melees if they're so OP

also from the last 2 bosses there's barely any logs... so yeah

Still looking at 80% of the fights where melee are doing just fine. Even if they're bad at the last two, who cares?

Balance is only competitive at the last 1-2. THAT is unacceptable.

Not to mention rogues are amazing in mythic+, where as balance offers mediocre aoe and only burst single target abusing an overtuned trait.

[shaunika123]

Still looking at 80% of the fights where melee are doing just fine. Even if they're bad at the last two, who cares?

Balance is only competitive at the last 1-2. THAT is unacceptable.

taloc has an entire phase where melee does nothing (or they're at the mercy of the healers)
mother and vectis you can stack melees all you want
zekvoz punishes melee stacking heavily also due to eye beam and tight spots
fetid is horrible with more than 5 melee, and you cant really have more than two at a time on any add.
zul is fine obviously
and then we're at mythrax and ghuun, which are not "20%" of the instance but more like 50% or more if you count the amount of tries you put into it

melees are really good in this raid but only in small doses, you cant stack them at all because you're fine. almost every fight is ranged favoured in terms of how many of each there are. which was my point.

however you could do basically any boss without a single melee assuming you had enough dps.

[Alcsaar]

taloc has an entire phase where melee does nothing (or they're at the mercy of the healers)
mother and vectis you can stack melees all you want
zekvoz punishes melee stacking heavily also due to eye beam and tight spots
fetid is horrible with more than 5 melee, and you cant really have more than two at a time on any add.
zul is fine obviously
and then we're at mythrax and ghuun, which are not "20%" of the instance but more like 50% or more if you count the amount of tries you put into it

melees are really good in this raid but only in small doses, you cant stack them at all because you're fine. almost every fight is ranged favoured in terms of how many of each there are. which was my point.

however you could do basically any boss without a single melee assuming you had enough dps.

I don't think the difficulty of the boss determines how fun your class is to play. If g'huun/myth were toned down to be balanced as the first 1-2 bosses of the raid and were as much of a joke as taloc/mother are, we'd still be in exactly the same situation: only being good at 1-2 fights in an entire raid tier.

Still, I feel your pain on some fights certainly. Although I'll say Fetid is equally bullshit as ranged with that knockback. That entire fight seems incredibly lack luster, like a last second additional boss they added. "Lets add an additional mechanic that just serves to knock back every one every X seconds to be really annoying and uninteresting"

[Tier539]

We're top dog when it comes to melee. You just want the other melee to cover buffs and they fill the rest with rogues.

Sadly, if you have the option to bring a ranged over a melee, you do it if you can.

[shaunika123]

I don't think the difficulty of the boss determines how fun your class is to play. If g'huun/myth were toned down to be balanced as the first 1-2 bosses of the raid and were as much of a joke as taloc/mother are, we'd still be in exactly the same situation: only being good at 1-2 fights in an entire raid tier.

Still, I feel your pain on some fights certainly. Although I'll say Fetid is equally bullshit as ranged with that knockback. That entire fight seems incredibly lack luster, like a last second additional boss they added. "Lets add an additional mechanic that just serves to knock back every one every X seconds to be really annoying and uninteresting"

ranged has place to spread, melee is bunched in small corners wth a huge dmg circle around them.

also it's not a matter of "fun"

it's a matter you literally cant bring more than 4-5 melees to progress if you want to kill the boss.

and im sorry but the last two bosses will always be more important than the first two.

[eragoan]

because half the fights wreck your shit if you run more than 4-5 melees at most :P

cant even imagine doing fetid with 7 melees lol.

I mean you obviously bench melee on fights where melee isn't good. But that's not a rogue problem, that's a melee problem.

[Razaron]

I feel like we miss some unique utility.
we bring nothing to the table, that other classes cant do just as well, or better.
before our dps nerfs, we could rely on our top dps.
but now i cant see any reason why we should be in a raid, except for being a decent player.
im not complaining about our dps nerfs, our dmg is fine. but some sorta unique utility instead, would be nice, imo.

Try playing a enhancement or elemental shaman, then complain.

[shaunika123]

I mean you obviously bench melee on fights where melee isn't good. But that's not a rogue problem, that's a melee problem.

I never said it was a rogue problem.

- - - Updated - - -

Try playing a enhancement or elemental shaman, then complain.

but if enha/ele were good, would you truly enjoy it?

being garbage is part of their class fantasy

[Alcsaar]

ranged has place to spread, melee is bunched in small corners wth a huge dmg circle around them.

also it's not a matter of "fun"

it's a matter you literally cant bring more than 4-5 melees to progress if you want to kill the boss.

and im sorry but the last two bosses will always be more important than the first two.

Eh? Its absolutely a matter of fun. Thats the entire purpose, to have fun. If rogue is fun to play because it does high damages (and it is, because it does) then the fact that you can only bring X melee to a raid doesn't really matter; once you find a raid you're set.

Its like being upset because you can't bring 8 tanks or 8 healers.

The problem is when a class isn't fun to play because it does nothing useful and then you have to try to convince a raid to take you as pity.

Rogues aren't anywhere near having that problem right now.

[elfporn]

This has to be a troll thread. Seriously.

it is.

someone made almost the exact same thread at the start of the last expansion.

[shaunika123]

Eh? Its absolutely a matter of fun. Thats the entire purpose, to have fun. If rogue is fun to play because it does high damages (and it is, because it does) then the fact that you can only bring X melee to a raid doesn't really matter; once you find a raid you're set.

Its like being upset because you can't bring 8 tanks or 8 healers.

The problem is when a class isn't fun to play because it does nothing useful and then you have to try to convince a raid to take you as pity.

Rogues aren't anywhere near having that problem right now.

why do people keep saying this? i never said rogues have a problem

if anything they're good precisely because melee is being punished atm, and rogues are good at taking punishment.

being benched because yoU're a melee is not fun.

and dont know about you but just because I do good dmg, that doesnt mean im having fun.

[Naiattavain]

this just in.. the customers are starting to figure out that the rogues genitals were cut off this expansion. they called and want them back..

Infracted.

[shaunika123]

this just in.. the customers are starting to figure out that the rogues genitals were cut off this expansion. they called and want them back..

yes because when suddenly rogues arent the only good melee for progression we suck :P

[SilenceRedo]

I feel like we miss some unique utility.

Then your feeling is misplaced. Rogues are, along with the DK's, the Melee class most useful in raid. Cloak, feint, cheat death, vanish. It is absurd. Specially when blizzard goes numb of mind and release raids like tomb of sargeras.

[Angryst]

I'm really not sure if you are being serious, but in case you are, this is boss damage from our latest Uldir encounter (mythic Zul):

This is going to be next on the nerf bat. Trust me. I've been playing rogue long enough to see this one coming a mile away and it's justifiable.

[shaunika123]

This is going to be next on the nerf bat. Trust me. I've been playing rogue long enough to see this one coming a mile away and it's justifiable.

not really

it's just cheese...

why would it be justifiable lol...

[Morgaith]

Massive burst, massive ST, massive aoe, massive mobility, massive defensives and group stealth. What's not to like?

[shaunika123]

Massive burst, massive ST, massive aoe, massive mobility, massive defensives and group stealth. What's not to like?

those two are arguable...

only outlaw has massive AOE

and our mobility is good towards targets but not away from them