Resto Shammy M+

[Elios]

Listen let's face it mythic dungeons are a joke and move on. The fact that they now have "MDI" just goes to show nothing in this game matters anymore. The fact that you can spam them for rediculous amounts of raid level gear is stupid. The game is now about how much time you can grind than spending a couple hours playing at a high level. Don't believe me? then why is the only metric that matters in mythic dungeons time? You could erase the time requirement and make dungeons purely about completion and these arguments would disappear altogether because in the end you can finish the bosses and move on.

Funny how you can be wrong in nearly every sentence you just wrote, that takes talent.

[Faesroll]

Resto shamans are really bad for M+. Arguably the worst healer to bring

[Stormbreed]

I can say that with a 367, neck lvl 22, Resto Shammy, I struggle more then on a 364 neck lvl 21 Resto Druid.

Same instances, same group, the druid just has the ability to handle spike damage group damage better. And we're completing 11 and 12's with over 90 seconds to spare on the druid while missing it on the Shammy.

Sad days.

Bottom line, we need a heal or go to mana intensive device to handle the group dropping low at the same time. Simply put we can not catch up as easily as other classes, even when damage is planned for. If it is unexpected we're in the worst spot of any healer.

[Quesenek]

Players like you that are happy to complete lvl 4 key this week and call it victory are exactly the reason shaman is left behind every single expansion. If your class can't be competitive what is good for even?

For anyone who even entered higher key than 10 knows how useless our "multiple party cooldowns" are. Where is this massive damage at? Takes you 10 seconds to top the tank, time in which other healers can use to dps instead.

Shaman was garbage in Legion when we had AG/CBT/ASC combo. Earth shield is supposed to replace that?

If they are so useless as healers then how do you explain that aside from a 16 at the time of posting, there is at least 1 resto shaman healer that has completed a high level key in each of the M+ levels?
https://raider.io/mythic-plus/season...strict#content
https://raider.io/mythic-plus/season...healer#content

There is no arguing that shamans don't need help, but even in their current state with enough gear and skill they can be good enough to complete keys.

[furiousferret]

Healing Wave and Surge just aren't strong enough for M+ content, and the rest is really just filler. I've avoided Resto in M+ this expansion because I learned last expac they're just not designed for it and I don't want to be a liability (which most Shamans are in that content). We're designed for raid aoe healing and Blizzard doesn't want to us to stray from that, so dungeon healing is a huge problem. Just look at the low amount of parses in 12+ keys and you can see its an obvious problem (just like Protection Warrior).

Its doable, but the skill level required for the group as a whole is going to be higher than any other healer.

[BiggestNoob]

Listen let's face it mythic dungeons are a joke and move on. The fact that they now have "MDI" just goes to show nothing in this game matters anymore. The fact that you can spam them for rediculous amounts of raid level gear is stupid. The game is now about how much time you can grind than spending a couple hours playing at a high level. Don't believe me? then why is the only metric that matters in mythic dungeons time? You could erase the time requirement and make dungeons purely about completion and these arguments would disappear altogether because in the end you can finish the bosses and move on.

Spoken like someone who hasn't done any high keys ever. 15s and 16s are harder than mythic raiding right now, by a good margin. Mythic raids have a high initial time investment and award much better gear, but in farm will just be 1-shotting bosses while getting a good 17 key and then refining your play on it to the point that you can beat the timer will take longer than progressing mythic bosses, and isn't going to be consistently doable until everyone has a lot more gear.

The people who are 380+ right now are extremely lucky with azerite and titanforges or have a lot of mythic raid gear. Most people doing > 10 key spam are sitting in low-mid 370s. Even for groups that have done over 100 of these and timed most of them for the bonus drop. +10s give heroic level gear with no azerite pieces, and heroic raids are incredibly easy.

[Buschleague]

If they are so useless as healers then how do you explain that aside from a 16 at the time of posting, there is at least 1 resto shaman healer that has completed a high level key in each of the M+ levels?
https://raider.io/mythic-plus/season...strict#content
https://raider.io/mythic-plus/season...healer#content

There is no arguing that shamans don't need help, but even in their current state with enough gear and skill they can be good enough to complete keys.

No offense, but that's a pretty asinine argument. I don't remember reading anywhere in this thread that high keys are impossible with a shaman healer, just that they're unreasonably harder with a shaman healer than with any other healer. With enough gear and skill we see DKs soloing current expansion raid bosses, doesn't mean its reasonable to expect the average (even above average) player to be able to do that.

Simply put, shaman are the worst healers for high keys by a significant amount. We're fine on lower keys when not as much throughput is required but anything 7+ becomes much more difficult.

When it comes down to it, this is a game and is about having fun (for most people anyways). I've been playing a resto shaman for several expansions and right now is the least fun I've ever had by far. There basically isn't any situation in the game where we feel strong right now and most of the time we are a hindrance, especially in mythic +. Hopefully Blizz does something about our current state soon.

[xintoc]

If they are so useless as healers then how do you explain that aside from a 16 at the time of posting, there is at least 1 resto shaman healer that has completed a high level key in each of the M+ levels?
https://raider.io/mythic-plus/season...strict#content
https://raider.io/mythic-plus/season...healer#content

There is no arguing that shamans don't need help, but even in their current state with enough gear and skill they can be good enough to complete keys.

I think what everyone is trying to say is that you need 360 item level to get 355 gear. And once you reach competitive levels, you feel on par with a 355 mistweaver at 365 ilvl. Blizzard promised numbers tuning after raids open. Seems they tuned resto to 25-man, because mythic+ sucks b...s. Talent's like "Deluge, High Tide, Cloudburst Totem, Earth Shield" seem to work very poorly in most situations.
Cloudburst - would be better if it had a base amount of heal + 20% of healing done.
High Tide - Chain heal has a long cast time and bounces have a short range. Can be very straining on mana. Same thing with Deluge.
Earth shield - disappointing since Echo of Elements is mostly the same and gives more utility.

But hey, those are my thoughts.

[Elios]

Gonna be honest here for a second and say.

If you are having problems healing M+ you are probably not really changing your playstyle according to tanks and Affixes.

You need to change your playstyle talents every single week.

[this is caranthir]

If you are having problems healing M+ you are probably not really changing your playstyle according to tanks and Affixes.

This statement is so generic i'm not even sure you are serious.

[time0ut]

My shaman is my alt. I haven't had major issues healing up to a +8 as long as the group is good and the tank can kite. I expect it'd be a different story if I was trying to push further at this point. I really enjoy the class though. We have a lot of amazing utility. Having purge, great interrupt, tremor, aoe stun, aoe slow, and elemental totem is amazing. We also can do solid damage. If we get a nice throughput buff, we'll be one of the top choices.

[shammypie]

Spoken like someone who hasn't done any high keys ever. 15s and 16s are harder than mythic raiding right now, by a good margin. Mythic raids have a high initial time investment and award much better gear, but in farm will just be 1-shotting bosses while getting a good 17 key and then refining your play on it to the point that you can beat the timer will take longer than progressing mythic bosses, and isn't going to be consistently doable until everyone has a lot more gear.

The people who are 380+ right now are extremely lucky with azerite and titanforges or have a lot of mythic raid gear. Most people doing > 10 key spam are sitting in low-mid 370s. Even for groups that have done over 100 of these and timed most of them for the bonus drop. +10s give heroic level gear with no azerite pieces, and heroic raids are incredibly easy.

proof that wow is dead when dungeons are the endgame. The fact that you are here complaining how shamans suck in them just goes to back up my words. Mythic raiding is suppose to the end all time to save the world from gods mode. Now it's all dungeons and the game just encourages you to play 24/7 because you can just keep getting gear. It's not that high keys are hard it's that dungeons are thing is the joke. I understand why so many people are going back to classic wow now. Now it's just smashing keyboards, rng aids everywhere.

[Elios]

This statement is so generic i'm not even sure you are serious.

If you dont get it, thats ok. I hope people that actually are trying to play at a decent level shaman will understand what i said.

[BiggestNoob]

If you dont get it, thats ok. I hope people that actually are trying to play at a decent level shaman will understand what i said.

There is no changing anything based on affixes. You have to talent into full ST throughput and either burst AoE with Ascendance which is rarely useful or sustained throughput with HS/CH weaving via HT. Because our healing is so weak baseline, ES/Undulation/FF are mandatory for tank/spot healing, and EWT is the only decent thing on its row both in general and as an effective tank heal for pulls with necrotic.

We literally run the same talents and do the same things no matter what the affixes are. We get screwed more by quaking than most classes because we don't have instants to fill with during that 1.5 second window where a cast will lock you, we generally can't do anything productive during it and definitely can't spot heal someone who's about to die (like a tank) because we don't have something like swiftmend or LC or PWS.

Shaman's toolkit is slow and weak, it's bad at just about everything in M+ by comparison to other specs. That's the problem.

[Nyel]

I can say that with a 367, neck lvl 22, Resto Shammy, I struggle more then on a 364 neck lvl 21 Resto Druid.

As I said, even Resto Druids can pump out enormous ST healing when needed compared to Shamans that just keep on spamming the 15k HS/HW for ten seconds to get somebody up because we don't have anything more than that.

- - - Updated - - -

Gonna be honest here for a second and say.

If you are having problems healing M+ you are probably not really changing your playstyle according to tanks and Affixes.

You need to change your playstyle talents every single week.

Still makes Resto Shaman the worst Mythic+ healer by far. That doesn't change by adjusting traits.

[Deleted]

This is a bad place to come ask that.

Most shaman players think they are terrible, but it's not true. If you like shaman, go for it. Disregard the hyperbolic people linking you top end numbers.

For example, you have heard how Ele and enhancement and terrible, yet you still see more representation than Fury, survival, unholy, arcane, fire, demonology, destruction and feral druids above 10. /shrug

Aslong as you are not expecting to break world records, you will be fine.

[Elios]

There is no changing anything based on affixes. You have to talent into full ST throughput and either burst AoE with Ascendance which is rarely useful or sustained throughput with HS/CH weaving via HT. Because our healing is so weak baseline, ES/Undulation/FF are mandatory for tank/spot healing, and EWT is the only decent thing on its row both in general and as an effective tank heal for pulls with necrotic.

We literally run the same talents and do the same things no matter what the affixes are. We get screwed more by quaking than most classes because we don't have instants to fill with during that 1.5 second window where a cast will lock you, we generally can't do anything productive during it and definitely can't spot heal someone who's about to die (like a tank) because we don't have something like swiftmend or LC or PWS.

Shaman's toolkit is slow and weak, it's bad at just about everything in M+ by comparison to other specs. That's the problem.

I'm sorry but no, running the same setup with completly different affix is fucking stupid.

[Xvolte]

quick question b/c I don't want to make an entire new thread to ask.

Does earthen wall totem absorb DoT damage? a google search didn't have the answer

[BiggestNoob]

I'm sorry but no, running the same setup with completly different affix is fucking stupid.

Thanks for letting me know how I'm healing these 14s wrong, my friend who is stuck on 8s.

[Rammus]

My shaman is my alt. I haven't had major issues healing up to a +8 as long as the group is good and the tank can kite. I expect it'd be a different story if I was trying to push further at this point. I really enjoy the class though. We have a lot of amazing utility. Having purge, great interrupt, tremor, aoe stun, aoe slow, and elemental totem is amazing. We also can do solid damage. If we get a nice throughput buff, we'll be one of the top choices.

Have a very similar situation and I have to agree with you. The utility r.shamans bring is insane, they only lacking throughput and on that note if you have self healing tank like dks, dh or even palas you wont run into any issues as far as the group is reasonably good. Still, even though I've done +8s with my sub 355 shaman I still think they are the only healer that actually need few buffs right now.