Class Balance Tuning - October 2

[-Skyfire-]

Now roll back the 5% nerf to BM hunters... That was so out of left field.

[keyone01]

MM confirmed to be totally fine.

[Deleted]

95% Mythic performance. Yeah, you're missing about 99,5% DK players.

But I'm 99%

Yeah 95% means they were probably luckiest.

[Indil]

I was curious what this tuning pass would do to each class:

Using this as baseline:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/st...gregate=amount

The 4% UDK buff will bring them from 13608 to 14152, above Shadowpriests and below Balance Druids.

The 4% Feral buff will bring them from 13932 to 14489, above Ret Paladins and below Destruction Locks.

The 5% Fire buff will bring them from 13562 to 14240, above Balance Druids and below Fury Warriors.

The 1% Shadow buff will bring them from 14068 to 14208, same position.
(Note: This assumes a pure single target fight where we even use Mind Flay, many fights we don't ever use it, in which case this is literally not a buff).

The 5% Enhancement buff will bring them from 13707 to 14392, above Fury Warriors and below Ret Paladins.

For the Elemental and Demonology buff I need a more involved method, so I will be looking at the top parses for both specs for Heroic Taloc for Single Target.

Elemental Single Target:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

Lightning Bolt is 6% of damage done, Chain Lightning and Earthquake are AOE and not used. This buff represents a 0.9% single target buff:

The 0.9% buff will bring Elemental from 13720 to 13843, no position change (they would have passed Feral but Feral also got buffed).
Note: This is strictly a single target measurement, while the Chain Lightning and Earthquake buffs are fairly significant for AOE.


Demonology Single Target:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...-done&source=6

Shadowbolt is 7%, Call Dreadstalker is 10%, Demonbolt is 11%. This represents a 4% overall single target buff.

The 4% buff to Demonology will increase dps from 13353 to 13887, above Elemental Shamans and below Frost Mages.


Congratulations to Marksmanship Hunters, you are now by your lonesome, well below even the other worst specs in the game!

The bottom of the meter now goes:

Marksmen < Frost Mage < Shadowpriest < UDK




^ This.

Mind Flay is 10% of our damage in single target, so the Mind Flay buff is a 1% single target buff.

We don't use Mind Sear on any of the raid bosses in this tier, so it's a 0% buff to raiding.
So I tried Mythic+ logs to find someone using Mind Sear, one of the highest Shadowpriest Mythic+ runs I found was a M14 Motherlode with a Spriest.
3.55% of their overall damage was Mind Sear, so it's about a 0.65% buff to Mythic+'s at most.

I'm sorry, you aren't taking in considaration New sims

http://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/T22_Raid.html

And you are considering 2 week range, wich is pointless, so all your calculations are wrong. That's sad because you did a very good job

[Cmx]

MM hunter? Hello?

[Deleted]

Jeezus people... Why are you making me sad all the time? When will you learn, pulling "all bosses" stats off of Warcraftlogs proves basically nothing?

For people saying UHDK is completely fine, here's a list reflecting Heroic Uldir WCL stats in the moment of me writing this comment:

Taloc - In lower percentiles, bottom 2-3, in higher percentiles, dead last.
Mother - Middle of the pack (like, literally 12th out of the 24 specs) in "mid" percentiles, falls to "lower middle of the pack" in high and low percentiles. (This boss isn't a good benchmark tho imo, due to the mechanics)
Fetid Devourer - Bottom 6-7
Zek'voz - Bottom 8 in low percentiles bottom 2-3 in mid-high percentiles
Vectis - Bottom 2 in high percentiles, bottom 4-5 in low percentiles.
Zul - Even with the "cleave strat" UHDK is in a limbo around middle of the pack
Mythrax - DEAD LAST from 50th percentile and above, bottom 2-3 below it.
G'huun - In a limbo in the "lower middle of the pack".

(And before you go "lOl wHo cArEs aBoUt hErOiC StAtS", as people mentioned in earlier comments, late Uldir bosses have very few parses on Mythic, and there are bosses which have ZERO UHDK stats at the moment, so you can't draw conclusions for a few more weeks on Mythic difficulty.)

Alas yeah, if you think a spec is "fine", while it is usually in the bottom third of the list, sometimes even in the bottom 5, you're delusional.

But you know what? I wouldn't mind being dead last on every fight even, iF the difference between first and last would be like 5%... But when it's 15-20% in some cases, you really have a f*cked up balance in the game.

[Scrysis]

"changes" Never once they said rework. We should expect nothing more than the ele treatment which isn't much.

You have two options then at this point because you don't want to believe what your fellows are telling you. You can either stay playing a weak spec, or you can reroll. You've already been told that the developers are aware and are working on stuff. You can deny that too. You've also been told that developers listen, but since you don't believe anything else you've been told, you probably believe that the developers don't listen to the playerbase. That means that crying about it on the forums is the most illogical thing to do at this point.

So choose:

Are you going unsub? Keep playing? Or reroll?

[Alcsaar]

still gotta wait for more mythrax/g'huun logs.

i find it really helps when a spec has its BEST TWO FIGHTS IN THE RAID, actually logged, instead of looking at 6 out of the 8 fights.

Being competitive on only 25% of fights is not nearly sufficient - not to mention specs like affliction are still beating balance on those fights AND are actually competitive on other fights.

So this "keep on waiting" logic is completely blasted and holds no water.

[bluesock]

You have two options then at this point because you don't want to believe what your fellows are telling you. You can either stay playing a weak spec, or you can reroll. You've already been told that the developers are aware and are working on stuff. You can deny that too. You've also been told that developers listen, but since you don't believe anything else you've been told, you probably believe that the developers don't listen to the playerbase. That means that crying about it on the forums is the most illogical thing to do at this point.

So choose:

Are you going unsub? Keep playing? Or reroll?

What I'm going to do / am doing has nothing to do with anything. Point is you are spreading false information there is no rework coming, you can delude yourself all you want but stop spreading lies.

[kevincuomo]

WOW a buff to Resto Shamans that doesn't include a Healing Raind buff.. Thank god they finally did something right.

[Yvaelle]

I'm sorry, you aren't taking in considaration New sims

http://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/T22_Raid.html

And you are considering 2 week range, wich is pointless, so all your calculations are wrong. That's sad because you did a very good job

Simcraft is an unreliable data source for overall balance, WCL data is better because it's based on real empirical evidence of performance.
Adjusting for the top 5% of logs is functionally similar to parsing for a ~perfect performance without including the unlikely "I only have 30% crit, but I had 80% of my abilities crit during that fight" anomalous data, which using a 100% log would cause.

2 week range is used because it reflects the latest data relevant to these specs and includes a gargantuan data set with hundreds of thousands of logs: more than Simcraft.

So, my methodology had a reason, and I prefer it to basing it off Simcraft.

[Tomana]

This needs a buff to holy paladins, come on Blizzard

[Scrysis]

What I'm going to do / am doing has nothing to do with anything. Point is you are spreading false information there is no rework coming, you can delude yourself all you want but stop spreading lies.

I'm not spreading lies. Here, from another post where they asked nicely, I did some digging.

Since you said please, I'll do the work of looking it up:

https://twitter.com/Wowhead/status/1007325104106160128

ACTUAL Q&A video at the timestamp:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AVTzRatRcY&t=487s

You have to watch through the whole answer because he doesn't mention specifics until the end. The gist of it is "Yeah, we know these classes are in a shitty place right now, but we don't have enough time to do major stuff on them for 8.0 and the release of BFA. Their reworks will have to wait until 8.1."

And this isn't the only communication where they mentioned the rework. I'm not going to look for those since that's a lot of extra work I'm not obligated to do.

If you want to disbelieve actual recorded discussions, there is nothing I can do for you.

[Mordarim]

Simcraft is an unreliable data source for overall balance, WCL data is better because it's based on real empirical evidence of performance.
Adjusting for the top 5% of logs is functionally similar to parsing for a ~perfect performance without including the unlikely "I only have 30% crit, but I had 80% of my abilities crit during that fight" anomalous data, which using a 100% log would cause.

2 week range is used because it reflects the latest data relevant to these specs and includes a gargantuan data set with hundreds of thousands of logs: more than Simcraft.

So, my methodology had a reason, and I prefer it to basing it off Simcraft.

Still allways get 75% percentile as the average cause thats the big percentage that actually matter not the top end tier 95%+ ones

[bluesock]

"Yeah, we know these classes are in a shitty place right now, but we don't have enough time to do major stuff on them for 8.0 and the release of BFA. Their reworks will have to wait until 8.1."

Literally did not mention the word rework once in the whole question ( with an exception on demo locks at the begging when he used that as an example of something they will not do ). Second they the word changes over and over again and regarding your tweet they said specifically major changes and they already did the major change for ele and all they did was give them 2 talents which are lackluster and didn't do anything for them. So yes you are lying and deluding yourself.

[Wretchedmist]

There are too many classes that are having problems right now. Doesn't reflect well on whoever's in charge on Blizz's class team.

[Deleted]

Very happy about the buff for my main, a resto shaman. I hope this will be enough to quickly dissolve the meme, that shamans are trash. The last weeks, I couldn't get into a M+ higher than +7. People just wouldn't invite me to save their life. And I couldn't even be mad, because resto shaman tank healing was just awful.

[Deleted]

am I the only one utterly baffled by the fire mage buff?

they're already in a very good spot in uldir due to their insane execute, they're underplayed but that's mainly because everyone just stopped playing it when it was garbage at the start of the expac.

they literally got a biger buff than feral druids did.

how is that rational?

even method said if they realized sooner that fire mage execute was so good they wouldve geared them for ghuun.

with the arcane nerfs last week, and frost generally not being that great in raids atm, fire is now easily the best overall mage spec in uldir.

and their execute is super value on the last 2 bosses (especially ghuun)

I am laughing so hard right now with that comment. Have u play fire mage at all during this expansion before saying those stupid things? Oh i heard method that .. pls go check logs and go do some m+ as fire and raids , then come back here and rewrite that . From those words i can say that u didnt play that spec at all during that expansion . Its only good for the last 2 bosses thnx to mobility it gives and bosses mechanics . NOT all bosses have those lol .

[Trumpcat]

I am laughing so hard right now with that comment. Have u play fire mage at all during this expansion before saying those stupid things? Oh i heard method that .. pls go check logs and go do some m+ as fire and raids , then come back here and rewrite that . From those words i can say that u didnt play that spec at all during that expansion . Its only good for the last 2 bosses thnx to mobility it gives and bosses mechanics . NOT all bosses have those lol .

The person baffled at the Fire buff and saying that it is fine has no idea whatsoever they are talking about. Not worth bothering with.

[shaunika123]

I am laughing so hard right now with that comment. Have u play fire mage at all during this expansion before saying those stupid things? Oh i heard method that .. pls go check logs and go do some m+ as fire and raids , then come back here and rewrite that . From those words i can say that u didnt play that spec at all during that expansion . Its only good for the last 2 bosses thnx to mobility it gives and bosses mechanics . NOT all bosses have those lol .

it was already buffed like 3 times this expac

also, the last two bosses matter like 5 times more than the previous 6

do you honestly think feral druids or shadowpriests are better than fire mages as the buffs would indicate? because then lol