Raids are dead. M+ is the future. This is an epic statement by JDOTB

[Tiwack]

Different strokes for different folks. Do you and let it go - instead of calling on death and thinking you speak for others.

[Risale]

10 man raiding held 25 man raiding together.

I will most like get aggro for saying this but sweet jesus I want 10 & 25 man raiding back and back to LFR/Normal/Heroic with the odd don't push the Big Red Button Boss. That is what I still enjoyed the most in my time of raiding in WoW.

[Spotnick]

I don't know.. while mythic+ are fine, you are always lacking something in terms of utility when you do them because you have only 5 people.

I honestly believe Blizzard should flex dungeons from 5 to 10 people.

I kind of miss hard 10 man content,and solo healing in 5 man is less fun than doing it with a team to be honest.

[Priestiality]

Guy who makes his money doing one specific kind of content says that specific content is the best.

[unbound]

Blizzard has struck gold with M+, and rather than lean into it, Blizzard has decided that it needs to prop up raiding with favorable loot systems. Raiding is an anachronism from an era where massively multiplayer was actually the selling point. Now every game has persistent massive online worlds, and raiding has ceased to be spectacle and instead turned into homework. Let it die. M+ is the future.[/I]

M+ is a short-term future. Unlike PvP games such as MOBAs, the runs are largely identical every single time. The addition of affixes does little to disguise that ugly truth.

Like all things that lack substance, it will shiny brilliantly for a while, and then sputter out completely lifeless as people find other short-term toys that they find more amusing.

[Alexeht]

I absolutely do not agree, raids are entertaining, they are also harder, and Mythic should reward much higher ilvl than you can get from highest m+.

M+ is boring, easy, and nothing every changes or is difficult, outside of more damage and more health. You pray your DPS know how to DPS, and your healer and tank can handle the affixes. Why should something like that be more rewarding than raiding, which is arguably much more difficult?

The "Challenge" in a game should be raids, it shouldn't be the challenge of dealing with the mentally challenged, and hoping they're bright enough to get through.

Yep, raids require way more co-ordinance, tactics, leadership and time. I think all people that are defending m+ same ilvl rewards are just people that like easy items.

[Deleted]

I do think an equally challenging raid should be slightly more rewarding than a dungeon just because it needs more coordination. Otherwise there's little incentive to do them. I don't agree that raids requiring teamwork is a 'flaw' in the system. A game requires you to work together? Good god! If people don't have time well that is their problem and not the game's, WoW is not some socialist right it is a work of art. If you don't like it don't play. I say this as a casual myself who prefers mythic+ to raids. I don't raid much, however I appreciate it is part of the game that takes time.

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I don't know.. while mythic+ are fine, you are always lacking something in terms of utility when you do them because you have only 5 people.

I honestly believe Blizzard should flex dungeons from 5 to 10 people.

I kind of miss hard 10 man content,and solo healing in 5 man is less fun than doing it with a team to be honest.

To be honest I mostly do m+ during tyrannical weeks because in my opinion the bosses are what make it fun, I don't want to slog through hard trash all the time just to have faceroll bosses.

[Varitok]

If M+ is the future over raiding then im done. I really dislike it and it breeds an extremely toxic community since there is no immediate do over for a fuck up.

[Nightstalker]

When will big influencer's stop predicting the future? They always come across as wannabe smart asses with the 100th iteration of Columbus's Egg. Preach started that nonsense talk years ago with his: "15man raiding, it's going to happen boiiiiiis!"

[Varolyn]

M+ was cool in Legion but it's becoming a fad and people will be tired of it when BFA is over. I would like to see it either gone or changed dramatically after BFA but it is an "e-sport" according to blizz so they might still try to make it into a thing. However, with how popular wow became on twitch with Uldir Progression being streamed, maybe blizz can reconsider that part.

[Primemrip]

Epic statement by JDOTB

Raids are dead. M+ is the future.

Finally, and on a kind of unrelated note, I’d like to address Ion’s point that M+ should have loot disadvantages because “the activity requires four other people as opposed to coordinating and scheduling a full raid group.” I couldn’t disagree more vehemently with that line of logic, and it feels like the player base is being punished for the sins of the developers. The idea that players should be extra rewarded for putting up with the headache of finding 20 players that can all commit to playing at the same time is questionable at best. If Blizzard recognizes that the raid format is burdensome and onerous, maybe try fixing the raid format instead of incentivizing players to put up with it by throwing more loot at them. Part of the reason M+ has ascended so rapidly is because *gasp* it’s accessible. You don’t need five officers, a webpage, a Discord server and a recruitment post that you bump daily to do a +16 key. Blizzard has struck gold with M+, and rather than lean into it, Blizzard has decided that it needs to prop up raiding with favorable loot systems. Raiding is an anachronism from an era where massively multiplayer was actually the selling point. Now every game has persistent massive online worlds, and raiding has ceased to be spectacle and instead turned into homework. Let it die. M+ is the future.

Source: https://www.wowhead.com/news=287612/...ted-and-teemin

Must suck to be stuck on Fetid, even after all the nerfs.

[muto]

Blizzard knows nobody would raid if Azerite gear could drop in m+, that's why they're forcing you to raid if you want Azerite upgrades. They know raids are dying, and m+ is taking over. A lot of people have jobs now and don't have the time to commit 9+ hours a week on a schedule anymore.

[Drusin]

then WoW will finally die, good.

Ha, maybe retail. Dream on.

[Donimic]

M+ is boring, easy, and nothing every changes or is difficult, outside of more damage and more health. You pray your DPS know how to DPS, and your healer and tank can handle the affixes. Why should something like that be more rewarding than raiding, which is arguably much more difficult?

The "Challenge" in a game should be raids, it shouldn't be the challenge of dealing with the mentally challenged, and hoping they're bright enough to get through.

care to link that 5k+ IO score from Legion and current 1500+ profile you have there?

[Drusin]

Epic statement by JDOTB

Raids are dead. M+ is the future.

Finally, and on a kind of unrelated note, I’d like to address Ion’s point that M+ should have loot disadvantages because “the activity requires four other people as opposed to coordinating and scheduling a full raid group.” I couldn’t disagree more vehemently with that line of logic, and it feels like the player base is being punished for the sins of the developers. The idea that players should be extra rewarded for putting up with the headache of finding 20 players that can all commit to playing at the same time is questionable at best. If Blizzard recognizes that the raid format is burdensome and onerous, maybe try fixing the raid format instead of incentivizing players to put up with it by throwing more loot at them. Part of the reason M+ has ascended so rapidly is because *gasp* it’s accessible. You don’t need five officers, a webpage, a Discord server and a recruitment post that you bump daily to do a +16 key. Blizzard has struck gold with M+, and rather than lean into it, Blizzard has decided that it needs to prop up raiding with favorable loot systems. Raiding is an anachronism from an era where massively multiplayer was actually the selling point. Now every game has persistent massive online worlds, and raiding has ceased to be spectacle and instead turned into homework. Let it die. M+ is the future.

Source: https://www.wowhead.com/news=287612/...ted-and-teemin

I never thought I'd say that there is more to the game than loot lol. I don't raid anymore but I don't think raiding should die, that's a horrible idea.

- - - Updated - - -

Blizzard knows nobody would raid if Azerite gear could drop in m+, that's why they're forcing you to raid if you want Azerite upgrades. They know raids are dying, and m+ is taking over. A lot of people have jobs now and don't have the time to commit 9+ hours a week on a schedule anymore.

I'm king casual overlord now but if I still did "hard" content it would be raiding.

[korijenkins]

Epic statement by JDOTB

Raids are dead. M+ is the future.

Finally, and on a kind of unrelated note, I’d like to address Ion’s point that M+ should have loot disadvantages because “the activity requires four other people as opposed to coordinating and scheduling a full raid group.” I couldn’t disagree more vehemently with that line of logic, and it feels like the player base is being punished for the sins of the developers. The idea that players should be extra rewarded for putting up with the headache of finding 20 players that can all commit to playing at the same time is questionable at best. If Blizzard recognizes that the raid format is burdensome and onerous, maybe try fixing the raid format instead of incentivizing players to put up with it by throwing more loot at them. Part of the reason M+ has ascended so rapidly is because *gasp* it’s accessible. You don’t need five officers, a webpage, a Discord server and a recruitment post that you bump daily to do a +16 key. Blizzard has struck gold with M+, and rather than lean into it, Blizzard has decided that it needs to prop up raiding with favorable loot systems. Raiding is an anachronism from an era where massively multiplayer was actually the selling point. Now every game has persistent massive online worlds, and raiding has ceased to be spectacle and instead turned into homework. Let it die. M+ is the future.

Source: https://www.wowhead.com/news=287612/...ted-and-teemin

Except that not every game is a massive online world? WoW could still dominate that market, but they chose to streamline and casualize their game. Building a character isn't a thing anymore. Choices have no repercussions. Its just a generic MMO made to be visually appealing, but hollow on the inside.

[MoanaLisa]

It's a dumb thing to think that this is an either/or proposition. Raids will continue because they are some of the best of what Blizzard produces. They have a tradition in the game and will always be around. M+ is popular with players, some who raid and will remain so for those that like smaller group stuff and dungeons.

More stupid binary thinking that for one to win the other has to lose.

[DreamSlaveOne]

Why people vote for cutting content options is beyond me. A few years ago it was raids only or gtfo for PvE, but now you can enjoy dungeons, raids, expedtions, wq's...

[Starry Sidekick]

I think raids are like the last bastion of the classic MMORPG format, and if anything need to stay in some form. I don't even raid competitively, but just that fact that there's content that requires as much socialization as raids out there makes me happy. You really don't see anything like it anywhere but WoW.

[tttsssrrr]

Tier pieces were definitely a strong incentive to hit up the raids. Neither format are going to be cut from the game. Uldir is a decent raid but the best is still to come.