Baine is nothing like Saurfang. Saurfang has done stuff. Baine has done nothing.
Baine is nothing like Saurfang. Saurfang has done stuff. Baine has done nothing.
Baine could have his badass moment in Pandaria - you know,being the one,who actually brings down the Hellscream in Mak'gora,avenging his father and becoming a warchief. But he didn't. He truly symbolizes the nature of tauren - being eternally grateful to the orcs for saving,thus becoming their minions without their own will who will agree with everything current warchief decides to do. Why would you need a spine,if there's somebody who tells you what to do?
Your edgy waifu is gonna die, deal with it already. She doesn't represent the Horde at all.
If only Baine had a spine and executed her himself. Yet all he does is bark.
You have an option to poison enemy soldiers - they will die before morning, and the battle will never come. Or - you can deem it unhonorable, and face their full might in the battle next day - you might win, you might lose, but a lot of your soldiers is going to die for sure.
Saurfang, Baine... all they care about is this "honor". Death isn't bad, as long as its "honorable". They will face their opponents in direct combat.
Sylvanas is different. Sylvanas doesn't care about petty mortal things like "honor". She died once already, and in honorable battle to that. She witnessed the "reward" for it. She wants the victory for her people. She will poison enemies without hesitation. Her people will survive, opponents will die, and thats all that matters.
I understand the concept of honourable combat perfectly... and I'm 100% against it. There is internal conflict in the horde. Let me stand on the side that doesn't consider honor important and stop flaming me for it. Fact that you have a specific vision of how horde should be doesn't mean horde HAS TO be like it.
I think a lot of it comes down to what you personally view as the "true" Horde. For me, having my first taste of the Warcraft universe through WC3, Thrall's Horde was the Horde that I fell in love with.
Supposedly, at least according to the info we had at the time, that was what the Horde was back on Draenor, before the demonic corruption thing happened, but a lot of things that have happened since have cast aspersions on that idea. Warlords of Draenor in particular really put into question what "true" Orcs were like before their fall to corruption and subsequent redemption.
Seems like all of us, the players, the devs and the in-game characters are having a kind of identity crisis regarding what "true" Horde honor actually entails, I just wish it'd actually go somewhere. I hoped this period was over at the end of Mists, but again, BfA seems so far to be a 1-for-1 retread of the story.
I must admit though, I had a good laugh when the Orc raiders who suprise-attacked a neutral civilian settlement in Kul Tiras started yammering about "dying with honor" when they get gunned down by farmers with blunderbusses.
Last edited by Ahrean; 2018-10-04 at 11:56 AM.
I don't consider Baine and Saurfang the same at all, really. Saurfang committed himself to war with the Alliance (after having been shown that victory was a possible and sustainable outcome by Sylvanas) - something I doubt Baine would've ever agreed to. Both individuals conduct themselves honorably as both leaders and warriors, but it is quite obvious that they have different values and different priorities as concerns the Horde and its future affairs. Saurfang prioritizes the peace and safety of the Horde over peace and safety in the more general sense (Baine is more flexible in terms of how he is willing to achieve peace), so in that sense you could say Saurfang is far more loyal to the Horde as a state than Baine is. Though I don't consider Baine a traitor like many here do, I also feel Baine puts more of an emphasis on the Tauren as a people than he does the Horde as a group, and if push came to shove Baine would enter into a non-aggression pact with the Alliance to preserve his people rather than fighting under the shared banner of the Horde if he felt that struggle were in vain. Saurfang would rather die opposing the Alliance, all things being equal - but, in the current Horde government, all things are not equal.
"We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead
Sylvanas has literally no reason to go on except for hate which makes her so incredibly shallow. Everything she does you can trace back to just pure hate. She's dead and her people is dead, she knows there is no future but still she keep killing people and forcing them into their rank. She's pure evil there is no gray zone, and that the horde hasen't figured this out is beyond me. The orcs have changed so much in the lore of wow. If sylvanas would've burned the tree years ago, the horde would have killed her on the spot.
I hope she gets killed off this expansion.
How Baine is an representative of Horde honor or honor at all is beyond me.
Yes, he talks about honor, but he never acts on it. Which clearly shows, that his words aren't worth anything at all. Instead of being truthful, upfront, standing up for what he believes in, having willpower and a spine, he is spineless and schemes behind the back of Horde warchief's to dethrone them. How is that honorable.
And the biggest problem in regards to Baine isn't, that he looks out for peace. The problem with him is, that he betrays the Horde, his own people, in favour of the Alliance ,himself and "peace". On top of his spinelessness and scheming mentioned above.
Baine is awful and has been for years upon years. Either he whines and whines, and does nothing, waits until someone else does something, so he tags along, or is an Alliance bootlicker. He's more distrought about an member of the opossition being risen than his people. He's terrible.
Worst thing that happened to the Tauren was Cairne being axed for this guy.
I gotta say... the VA is absolutely top-notch. I with they would just make Baine a little more brutal. Have him respect the command structure, but talk shit to Sylvanas when it's "just the leaders talking", maybe openly threatening to leave the Horde is she continues acting dishonorably, or even hinting that he may forcibly remove the mantle of Warchief. Make him seem truly POWERFUL, not "kind and wise". He shouldn't be Cairne 2.0, he should embrace a slightly more warrior-like stance on things. It's fine for him to be pragmatic, and seek out peaceful resolutions where possible, but be willing to throw-down when push comes to shove. Hell, even Cairne was willing to challenge Garrosh, and even backhanded him on he freshly-tattooed jaw like he was some kind of little bitch.
I still want to believe Cairne has potential. Blizzard needs to get away from these extremes, that characters either have to be "warmongers" or "completely passive and emasculated".
Saurfang has been Horde longer than you have, I back his understanding of what the Horde is over yours.
However it's nice to hear Baine doing something, even if it's just what Saurfang's doing. He's not at a feast, I'll take it.
His character is being an Alliance shill and potential puppet ruler on their behalf if Blizzard goes the rout I fear they’re going. (SoO 2.0, Alliance Victory, Puppet ruler implemented to keep the Horde in ‘check’ via Baine).
For a faction war expansion they’re really trying to do everything in their power to cripple Horde pride.