Whats wrong with Shadow Priest?

[Enclave]

recently leveled an alt shadow priest and im having tons of fun but i keep seeing people on forums complaining how broken shadow is
whats exactly is wrong with it?

[zito]

recently leveled an alt shadow priest and im having tons of fun but i keep seeing people on forums complaining how broken shadow is
whats exactly is wrong with it?

the overall flow of the rotation, void form being ass and our talent choices being ass is what's wrong with it. You can have tons of fun with it but at the end of the day shadow has been an after thought in blizzards minds since alpha

[Enclave]

the overall flow of the rotation, void form being ass and our talent choices being ass is what's wrong with it. You can have tons of fun with it but at the end of the day shadow has been an after thought in blizzards minds since alpha

every class suffers from few rows of shitty talents and rotation feels okay i main mage and honestly spriest rotation feels much more fun for me

[Malikath]

the overall flow of the rotation, void form being ass and our talent choices being ass is what's wrong with it. You can have tons of fun with it but at the end of the day shadow has been an after thought in blizzards minds since alpha

pretty much this, bad class developers make bad classes.

[zito]

every class suffers from few rows of shitty talents and rotation feels okay i main mage and honestly spriest rotation feels much more fun for me

It's not a few rows of shitty talents, except the first talent row all our talent rows are shitty. Ion said himself he doesnt want classes to constantly change between single target talents and aoe talents because they are on the same row. Oh look shadow crash and SWD are on the same row. Every single talent row has a problem with it and I could go into detail on each one but I did that months ago in alpha and nothing changed.

The fact that SWD is a talent only because of warrior class fantasy is fucking ridiculous.

[Ambereldus]

The main issue has been a mechanical disconnect between what raiding requires and what dungeons require. I can't speak for PvP, so I'll let someone else discuss that.

For years, our main problem is ramp-up time. Because we had to spend so much time (several GCDs) getting DoTs on each target, lower health targets (e.g. dungeon trash, quest mobs, etc) would be killed by our party before we got a chance to deal meaningful damage. This left us in situations where our damage was only valuble on targets that lived a long time (i.e. bosses). In Legion, this ramp-up was amplified even further due to Voidform and various passives, making shadow a complete meme in M+ dungeons. Raids have been better for us because bosses live a long time. Many people feel Legion was a great time for raiding Spriests because of this emphasis on ramp-up (i.e. high risk of disruption vs. high reward for mastering the encounter).

BfA has gone in the opposite direction, frontloading a majority of our damage through Void Eruptions AoE. This means SPriest can finally deal meaningful burst damage in dungeons, but has somewhat suffered in the sustained-damage and spec-mastery department. Damage is too binary now; use VEr as often as possible to deal good damage, not much else matters.

Apparently, we're not allowed to be a spec that feels good to play in both Raids and Dungeons.

And this is the disconnect players are angry about. Voidform is a Legion invention, intended to be our "super saiyan" ability that we want to maximize our time in, with Insanity being the timer looming over us. This allowed us to feel great in raids, but punished us too heavily if we couldn't get a full Voidform cycle. By taking so much damage out of our normal abilities and pumping it into VEr, Voidform doesn't need to be maximized anymore, and actually feels COUNTERPRODUCTIVE to optimal dps. You don't feel like you want to extend Voidform anymore, because its just delaying you from getting another VEr to burst things down. But this is actively discouraged due to the talents we have that are still designed around extending Voidform...even though we don't want that anymore.
And on a more personal note, my biggest complaint still is the mismatched cooldowns of Void Bolt and Mind Blast that is ONLY fixed by taking a specific talent. I.e. You want the spec to feel good? Ignore these two talents, they no longer exist.

I've given up on Shadow a few expansions back...I couldn't take the heartbreak any longer. But...I still WANT to go back to my priest, and I haven't stopped caring about Shadow's state. Hopefully that gives you some more insight.

[ChairmanKaga]

The fact that SWD is a talent only because of warrior class fantasy is fucking ridiculous.

WHat exactly is the origin of that?

[zito]

WHat exactly is the origin of that?

Blizzard lol. All execute abilities for all classes except warrior were moved to a talent for the sake of warrior class fantasy

[sd2400533]

every class suffers from few rows of shitty talents and rotation feels okay i main mage and honestly spriest rotation feels much more fun for me

I agree, much more fun, until you look at the numbers on your Skada. Then you just wanna die.

[Jedimindtrx]

recently leveled an alt shadow priest and im having tons of fun but i keep seeing people on forums complaining how broken shadow is
whats exactly is wrong with it?

OP,
The feelings are carried over from late Legion Shadowpriest into a ROUGH Alpha & Beta, into an accentuated LAUNCH BFA SP.
LEGION SP
In the raiding environment only great/good SP excelled, and decent, ok, alt SP players suffered greatly in not being able to make haste caps of 41% and unable to maintain the 45-50 cycles. Very punishing. Poopoo damage outside of VF. Decent in M+ for 15 keys, but too much ramp up and no on demand burst, anything past that 15 key mark, DECLINED. ST was C-tier. PVP - BGs they're sexy, Arena B-tier, only Godcomp through Legion iirc.

Blizz solution and the current fix is less value on VF so you can do damage outside of VF therefore all can be good and enjoy SP. Good idea, but the execution is what most of the community has issues on. Tuning damage aside...

ALPHA/BETA/BFA LAUNCH SP
(1) DOTS incredibly weak
(2) Counter intuitive VF as Void Eruption has such a high value in cleave situations. (complaint since Alpha)
(3) Fluidity/"Clunky": Despite Legion SP drawbacks, it was butter smooth to play. BFA is just a messy overlap of CDs and low stats accentuate this.
(4) TALENTS: Major Issues
A. Core ability, SWDeath, is now a talent and so execute specialty/niche is now a choice(???). complaint since Alpha)
B. Abilities now talents, belt and torrent.
C. Talent that had no use after Emerald Nightmare, STM, is still here like... (???)
D. Talents still centered around Insanity generation when staying in VF provides little value even with talent Lingering Insanity + 3X Chorus of Insanity.
E. AOE Talents in line with more important talents. So you spec for fortified, be prepared to be poo on Boss, you spec for Tyr, be prepared to be poo on Mobs. As a SP, it's better to lead your M+ groups than apply to them unless 370+, even then the 350 Frost Mage is a better option. Even on my alts when I do low keys, take the rogue, take the mage, take the healing priest.
(4) STIGMA/COMMUNITY PERCEPTION
STIGMA P1. This is the biggest one. Legion SP community perception was GREAT for raiding progression at the semi-serious level due to the Execute and amazing Mass Hysteria ramp on large health pools. SPs were poo when things were on farm or super farm due execute phases being shorter, there you kill bosses during your 20-40 stacks of VF. BAD for M+. No one wanted a SP for M+ due to the Ramp up and providing nothing the boomy/mage can't + they have Brez + TimeWarp.
STIGMA P2: has carried over to BFA, even worse for community perception when Ion announced that Shaman and Shadowpriests were getting reworks for 8.1. Community hears this and continues the stigma of BAD SP, BAD!
STIGMA P3: <Method> uses no SP on their Mythic World First, besides Zul just to Mass Dispel, iirc. Eliminating the Legion community perception that SPs are good for progression raiding. Let's be honest, the larger majority does not raid at that super high level, but the common mind uses the best examples and copies them.

Since launch:
(1) Buffed DOTS
(2) Buffed Mflay and MB

So here we are, waiting for changes. Playing alts or co-maining locks/boomies.

On a positive note...
(1) BGs it's still high KB/Damage Done spec. Fairly easy to get into RBGs.
(2) ARENA it's solid as a tanky support DPS with Edge of Insanity. LOLOL as that completely negates VF in play Arena,*golfclap* lolol.
(3) Life Grip <3
(4) A-tier burst AOE, not S-tier, but A-tier is fine.

My biggest fear is that this "rework" is just tweaks to numbers, durations, and damage values. Essentially just being a "large tuning" rather than a "rework".

Posted 6OCT18. Shadowpriest 8.1 PTR changes are not up yet.

[Spicymemer]

recently leveled an alt shadow priest and im having tons of fun but i keep seeing people on forums complaining how broken shadow is
whats exactly is wrong with it?

Just seems a case that your standards are incredibly low

[Enclave]

Just seems a case that your standards are incredibly low

I played mage for past 4 years which has incredibly boring rotation and talents so yeah

[Deleted]

It has been garbonics ever since MoP. It was very good in both pvp and pve for a while at the beginning of MoP, but as WoW's Cinderella alongside elem shaman, spriest can never be allowed to shine, and if it does, it's quickly nerfed into garbonics again.

After 10 years, people still didn't get this message.

[Laqweeta]

Shadow Word: Death should not be a talent

Void Torrent should not be a talent

Shadow Crash should be baseline

Voidform's insanity drain needs to be lowered

Mind Flay, Vampiric Touch and Shadow Word: Pain need to be buffed

Mind Sear should spread Shadow Word: Pain to all targets within 10 yards

Opinion on Mastery -

Shadow Priests needs MoP's Mastery back (All dots have a chance to deal damage twice, each time they deal damage)

I'd like to see Shadow Orbs make a comeback, but instead of just Mind Blast generating them, let Mind Flay's tick have a chance to generate them as well.

3 Shadow Orbs for a hard hitting dot that ticks every 1 second for 5 seconds (Be it Devouring Plague or something different). When cast, it also causes all of your dots on all targets to deal 20% of their damage on the amount of time remaining.

[zito]

The days of mastery being interesting are gone. They stream lined most mastery to just be % bonuses unless your like holy where everything adds a hot to your targets which honestly is just a % bonus to that heal just not at one time

[Laqweeta]

The days of mastery being interesting are gone. They stream lined most mastery to just be % bonuses unless your like holy where everything adds a hot to your targets which honestly is just a % bonus to that heal just not at one time

This is what I don't like...

An uninspired, flat damage buff for a MASTERY.

Absolutely mental.

Praying for MoP's Mastery to come back :c

[domzae]

I can't speak for PvP, so I'll let someone else discuss that.

I'll take this one (primarily talking from a 3v3 point of view), it's a combination of changes from legion to bfa that end up with a really broken spec in PvP.

Firstly, shadows defensives got gutted with BfA, the biggest one being Dispersion, which had a 50% heal attached to it and was a 1m15s cd. (as opposed to now which is just the 60% damage reduction on a 2 minute cooldown.

Next, so much of shadows damage got shifted out of voidform, so going into voidform only gives you a bit of haste, and access to void bolt. On top of that, shadowform gives 10% damage reduction, which is lost when going into voidform.

And then blizzard changed a pvp talent, edge of insanity, to give 20% damage reduction when above 60 insanity and in shadowform.

The result, is that the most optimal way to play shadow in pvp right now is to sit at full insanity and never enter voidform, focusing on strong utility you bring rather than maximising dps. You literally just don't play half of your spec. Going into voidform is just not worth it unless you *have* to score a kill, else you will get swapped to and probably just die before you get back to edge of insanity.

Edit: To be clear, shadow is pretty good right now in 3s, it has a ton of utility, is quite tanky and does enough damage. it's just not fun to not be able to use your spec's mechanics

[EbonBehelit-]

Blizzard lol. All execute abilities for all classes except warrior were moved to a talent for the sake of warrior class fantasy

Blizzard talks a lot about preserving "class fantasy", and about removing abilities so that classes aren't stepping on each others toes. Meanwhile, they add Demon Hunters to the game. And what of holy power for Paladins? Isn't combo points part of the Rogue "class fantasy"?

I would think that an ability Shadow's had since 2007 should be considered part of its "class fantasy". What's next, removing Vampiric Touch (also from TBC) because DoTs that deal shadow damage are Affliction's class fantasy?

[qactuar]

Blizzard talks a lot about preserving "class fantasy", and about removing abilities so that classes aren't stepping on each others toes. Meanwhile, they add Demon Hunters to the game. And what of holy power for Paladins? Isn't combo points part of the Rogue "class fantasy"?

I would think that an ability Shadow's had since 2007 should be considered part of its "class fantasy". What's next, removing Vampiric Touch (also from TBC) because DoTs that deal shadow damage are Affliction's class fantasy?

Bad comparison. Shadow's always had the aspect to it of draining or leeching from their opponents, so Vampiric Touch fits just fine. That being said, I would like to see more Void-themed abilities because there's always been overlap with warlocks to a degree, and perhaps even DKs to a degree. If Blizzard would continue carving out this Void niche they created for Shadow with Legion, I'd personally be on board with that theme. However, I think as soon as they introduced Alleria and the Void Elves' story at the end of the Argus campaign that possibility was dashed...

[EbonBehelit-]

Bad comparison. Shadow's always had the aspect to it of draining or leeching from their opponents, so Vampiric Touch fits just fine. That being said, I would like to see more Void-themed abilities because there's always been overlap with warlocks to a degree, and perhaps even DKs to a degree. If Blizzard would continue carving out this Void niche they created for Shadow with Legion, I'd personally be on board with that theme. However, I think as soon as they introduced Alleria and the Void Elves' story at the end of the Argus campaign that possibility was dashed...

"Draining or leeching from their opponents" also describes Affliction, ya know. Regardless, Blizzard doesn't seem to have a single clue as to what they want Shadow to be. Remember when they gave Shadow combo points (orbs) for no reason?

I'd personally love to see Shadow return to the niche it had in TBC, but that would require a total overhaul of class and encounter design. A dps spec that has lower damage output, but constantly heals the party, has no place in modern WoW.