Mass poll/discussion: Would these changes positively or negatively change the game?

[artam]

IMHO would improve the game to a point of gear make sence again, but with this team 2, it will never happen.

Casino is the path choosen for the game, i hate it, but maybe a less vocal minority loves it.

[ellieg]

Why does everyone have such a hardon for getting rid of titanforging? Have you ever had guild members get bis and just stop showing up to raids cause there are 0 upgrades? Because that's what happens. Sure community and all that, but eventually, attendance goes down when theres no rewards. This is why titanforge exists, so theres always something to do.

I think ppl overestimate it. There is no one running around right now at 370+ ilvl that has only done lfr. Sure u might hear of that guy with the 395 piece from a M0 dungeon but that's incredibly rare. And honestly, so what? One dude had lottery winning luck and got 1 good piece. If that's the price to pay to make it so all content is potentially rewarding, its worth it.

[Sithalos]

Bring back master looter for guilds along with those changes and we might actually have a game.

[Azerate]

Vendors for gear is a system that encourages to collect badges/emblems/whatever currency instead of actually doing content for item drops, so I don't want that.

Warforging/titanforging is this little nice something that you can always count on, I don't really see a problem with it, especially now when it's limited on weapons and absent on some item pieces.

Azerite armor I could live without.

So I only agree in 1 out of 3

[Queen of Hamsters]

I don't consider currencies to be some lost messiah, but then the past doesn't get covered in a rosy shimmer by my brain so... I can see why some would hail it as such.

I'd be glad to see Azerite Armor and Titanforging go away though.

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IMHO would improve the game to a point of gear make sence again, but with this team 2, it will never happen.

Casino is the path choosen for the game, i hate it, but maybe a less vocal minority loves it.

They don't design the game for a vocal minority, they design it for a majority.
If shit sticks, it's probably because they as a company see that they can get away with it and still sell the product. We may have our grievances and opinions, but we have no hard data of any sort to support us.

They do.

[dacoolist]

I could make do WITHOUT azerite armor, and titanforge/wf/those extra affix stats (leech/socket etc) - BUT I don't really give a damn about tier sets/vendors

So for me: Get rid of Az armor and TF/WF/socket bonus/affix bonus (leech etc)

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This thread needs more cheese.

It actually needs more wine .. or is it WHINE ;D

[Weeps]

Instead of stupid fucking requirements for crafting, expulsom and sanguincell... it should've been badges/currency towards some piece of gear that has not been dropping in a raid or m+

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

I personally don't like M+ (though I'm fine with M0) due to the fact that it's just a rush and I prefer to relax and take things slowly in the games I play and M+ is very much counter to that. So that said, with heroics basically being entirely useless this Xpack and LFR only dropping 340 gear I've basically been forced into a "Raid or Die" situation when honestly the thing I enjoyed most from this Xpack and Legion was some fo the world content (doing World Bosses, WQ etc). So bringing back Badge Gear and Tier Sets that can be acquired via Queueable content would actually give me something to do other than see how fast I can click the unsub button.

If you need to take mythic slowly it means you don't understand the dungeon. I cleared dungeons with sub optimal groups while having 10-12 minutes to spare. The ones in bfa are tuned a bit tighter but if know the dungeon and vet groups like in the burning crusade nothing has changed. Stop trying to make the game easier.

[Triggered Fridgekin]

Blizzard has more or less locked themselves in to what can only be described as a self-inflicted Sisyphus cycle. Each time they found a system which worked they would allow the stone to roll back down the hill for the sake of introducing something new and go through the growing pains of pushing it back up the hill rather than allow the system to rest at the top to be refined which has ultimately lead us to where we are now.

The issue is that now we have one system which is essentially represents four and it's messy to say the least. Tier sets, legendary items, artifacts and glyphs. So where do we go from here once the next expansion hits? That doesn't even touch on forging and the old token system is likely long, long gone.

This is a case where I hope they do scrap everything since I'd argue we're still at rock bottom and start fresh even though I am concerned whether or not they can swallow their pride and provide a more user-friendly experience.

[Derpleton]

If you need to take mythic slowly it means you don't understand the dungeon. I cleared dungeons with sub optimal groups while having 10-12 minutes to spare. The ones in bfa are tuned a bit tighter but if know the dungeon and vet groups like in the burning crusade nothing has changed. Stop trying to make the game easier.

Saying that I want the game easier is a strawman. I don't care how difficult M+ is honestly, I already said I'm not interested based on the premise of what it is. That said it can exist and people can go off and enjoy it that's fine, I really don't care but I would like to be able to have long term goals without being forced into either Raiding or M+. I don't think its unfair to offer a piece 355 gear to someone that completes some arbitrarily high amount of LFR runs considering that a player doing normal can easily get multiple set pieces off of a single run on normal. I would remove Titanforging/Warforging if this is the case. I think that having people be able to set and achieve goals is better for the game than "Oh look you just killed this boss and got 340 gear while Billy over there got an ilvl 1000 piece because he's really lucky even though you did the same thing"

If we were to take the max warforge/titanforge from every difficulty and set it as the badge gear piece from that difficulty then people would have goals to set and people able to pad out holes in their gear with powerful gear. tldr I think that badge gear/goals is much more rewarding than free +30 ilvl's for no reason.

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

Saying that I want the game easier is a strawman. I don't care how difficult M+ is honestly, I already said I'm not interested based on the premise of what it is. That said it can exist and people can go off and enjoy it that's fine, I really don't care but I would like to be able to have long term goals without being forced into either Raiding or M+. I don't think its unfair to offer a piece 355 gear to someone that completes some arbitrarily high amount of LFR runs considering that a player doing normal can easily get multiple set pieces off of a single run on normal. I would remove Titanforging/Warforging if this is the case. I think that having people be able to set and achieve goals is better for the game than "Oh look you just killed this boss and got 340 gear while Billy over there got an ilvl 1000 piece because he's really lucky even though you did the same thing"

If we were to take the max warforge/titanforge from every difficulty and set it as the badge gear piece from that difficulty then people would have goals to set and people able to pad out holes in their gear with powerful gear. tldr I think that badge gear/goals is much more rewarding than free +30 ilvl's for no reason.

Its not at all if you know the dungeon the timer doesn't matter, I don't even think about it 90% of the time. I never optimized pulls or use invis pots unless I'm with my guild because none of that stuff matters. Mythic+ is only thing that is right in the game. Stop trying to make everything carebear.

[TriggeredKid]

I've been playing since mid-classic. I only managed to get back into raiding in Legion (stopped in wotlk during the early adoption of gearscore) because I was able to access gear via war/titanforging to push to where I could raid. Instead of the ridiculous catch 22 of "we're going to demand you have the ilevel of this content to play this content."

"Just make your own group" says the tank/healer role guy who is already geared.

I main a dps, join a guild.

[Derpleton]

Its not at all if you know the dungeon the timer doesn't matter, I don't even think about it 90% of the time. I never optimized pulls or use invis pots unless I'm with my guild because none of that stuff matters. Mythic+ is only thing that is right in the game. Stop trying to make everything carebear.

Moving titanforged/warforged Gear to Badge Vendor = Carebear? I really don't think so and it has nothing to do with M+ and thats not the topic of this thread either it's about whether badge gear and no forging would be positive for the game. M+ and Badge gear can coexist.

The discussion on M+ timers is over that way: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ed-to-be-timed

[Regalbeast]

O my god finally someone who brings on the table something totally new and never seen around this forum! Just like my answer!

/s

You must struggle with reading comprehension

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I don't consider currencies to be some lost messiah, but then the past doesn't get covered in a rosy shimmer by my brain so... I can see why some would hail it as such.

It is 100% an improvement over the casino-like loot system that we have now. You could spend 3 hours in a raid or 3 hours doing dungeons and not have anything to show for it.

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

Moving titanforged/warforged Gear to Badge Vendor = Carebear? I really don't think so and it has nothing to do with M+ and thats not the topic of this thread either it's about whether badge gear and no forging would be positive for the game. M+ and Badge gear can coexist.

The discussion on M+ timers is over that way: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ed-to-be-timed

I don't care about that it's the crituque of mythic+ just learn the dungeons and stop crying, they aren't hard.

[Arainie]

I feel like you should've made this a multiple choice poll, as I agree with a couple of the points and am rather indifferent about the third. I voted agree regardless but I don't think that completely conveys my feelings.

[NihilSustinet]

These are the changes/reverts I'm proposing (which aren't new or groundbreaking at all):

-Bring back tier sets and get rid of Azerite armor
-Bring back vendors for gear (both PvE and PvP)
-Get rid of titanforging on gear

It's my opinion that these simple changes would drastically improve the game. The casino-like approach to gear is an abomination to the core gameplay that we used to have. It was clearly implemented to keep players in the game (sub #'s) due to the possibility of a "random" upgrade. What it really does is introduce ambiguity and frustration.

yes to one and three, no to two.

[Deleted]

I voted "positively".
However : do these changes help with retaining subscribers for the maximum amount of time possible ? No, so they won't happen. You need to realize that every single design decision these days is taken with this objective in mind: keep us p(l)aying as long as possible.

[HuxNeva]

-Bring back tier sets and get rid of Azerite armor

Absolutely. Getting rid of tier was an epic mistake, and azerite gear a failed experiment

-Bring back vendors for gear (both PvE and PvP)

Gawd no. If you want a predictable income, get a job.

-Get rid of titanforging on gear

Since TF is the foundation on which alternate content is based, you're basically advocating the old 'raid or die'. No thanks.

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I'm sure someone more intelligent than me can come up with a hypothesis or even eveidence of what i'm saying isnt all that insane.

It is called confirmation bias.

[Great Destiny Man]

I feel like you should've made this a multiple choice poll, as I agree with a couple of the points and am rather indifferent about the third. I voted agree regardless but I don't think that completely conveys my feelings.

I'm of the same mind on this one. I sort of agree with some of the OP's suggestions but all 3 points in unison feels like a massive step backwards.