Ian Bates (Red Shirt Guy) - 8.1 Darkshore Quests are REALLY Bad

[Zandalariprelate]

At the time, her only 2 goals were to kill Arthas and end her life, besides the obvious that Bolvar wouldn't allow her to take Arthas body, let alone doing touch it, I don't see her taking it and trying to resurrect him. I know some people probably have some sick fantasies with her, being a dominatrix and torturing Arthas... but that's just not believable. Her biggest fear was Arthas ever having the chance of capturing her again(Nightmare) and would never allow that chance to ever happen.

Well Bolvar was in his year 0 so probably wouldn't have done anything, even chronicles mention he got a wake up call when sylvanas made a deal with the val'kyrs but to be fair the only credible way for her to find Arthas and keep him as a servant would be if the 8 valkyrs told her his location and suggested they can resurrect him and bound his existence to her soul, so if she dies, so does him and get back to the shadowlands but that would have raised a lot of concerns from Sylvanas being pushed to bring back the ex lich king

All that changed after she killed herself, she wanted nothing to do with the Valkyr before that. And that last part, too tempting to let pass that opportunity... giving him the opportunity to get free and re-enslave her is a risk she'd never take.

Well she is raising ex enemies that back stab her like Gallen Trollbane, Godfrey which cost her others 3, and probably Delaryn more later, so as long she gets the upper hand or some powerful servant, she wouldn't mind, besides she would take a lot of measures to keep arthas under her control or have some lethal poison engaged in his body in case she dies or something

Not sure about capturing, in Chronicles it says that he learned of the Valkyr from the Vrykul and attempted to make his own and eventually succeeded and with them his power increased like crazy.

She actually capture some of them in the shadow lands, there is twitter from Afrasiabi about that and you see in the wowpedia, besides part of the Val'kyr power depends from the master as you can see Helya and Odyn can resurrect anyone(Ymiron)

The Lich King didn't meet them, no but they're not the only ones who know. At least one of Sylvanas' Val'kyr if not all know how to make more, as there's more Valkyr in the Forsaken besides Sylvanas' original 8(it's Cell Juniors all over again)
Sylvanas has the means to make more Val'kyr thanks to the Valkyr or possibly learning how from Helya(who she learned for from the Valkyr)
We still don't know what was bargained with Helya and she has more than 4 Valkyr. Most likely the problem is that Sylvanas isn't the Lich King, she doesn't grow in power and thus she stuck with the few strong Valkyr she has and can only have them make weak ones, where the Lich King continuously grew in power and could keep making more powerful Valkyr. Arthas without the Lich King's unlimited power, isn't going to help.

The lesser Valkyrs seem to be left into the oblivion because there aren't mention of them or else Sylvanas wouldn't be bring the remaining 9 to any field with humans, besides we are talking about Arthas at his DK power level, he could raise dragons even with the lich king power leaking and you don't need his permission to use necromancy as you can see in the cult of the danmed in Andorhal and the ebon blade from wotlk to the start of legion, besides he probably knows a few tricks that could be useful to learn

The Knights of the Ebonblade were the ones I was talking about @_@
Their personalities and more free will than mindless scourge is what made them more powerful and yes they had more free will than most of the Scourge, proof by the fact that they rebelled literally right next to the Lich King because their feelings were hurt.

They rebelled after Fordring broke the main control after defeating the ebon blade in the light chapel or do you think Thassarian, Koltira and Darion were following him willingly? Considering how they react and act after being free, they would have killed Arthas before to follow him

Pretty sure your grasping at straws here. Secret passages to the castle really don't mean much, plague the city and raise some guards and get your answers. Not really a selling point for uses of Arthas under Sylvanas.

Yup, exactly how he did it, got someone who know all the secret royal passageways... oh wait that never happened
He didn't know quel'thalas' defenses and got lucky that he sensed one of the archmages inside who lusted for power and hated his own people to deactive the gates(not secret royal passageways) and if he didn't get lucky, the scourge would have most likely failed because they weren't prepared for the Elfgates.

Actually secret passages could be useful for assasination missions, entering the castle of Anduin with a secret pasagge, assasim him and drag the body to be raised to terrorize the population could be a very good tactic, things like this will be only know by officers and the royal guard which wouldn't participate in any battlefield and if she is already sieging the city, well it would be pointless in that case but every media has made clear the horde doesn't have the means to invade stormwind and probably the knowledge over the city is very limited or else some elite squad forsaken would be stealing noble corpses near of the cementery to get more information, about the elf gates, he got help from Drak which told him about the gates, the keys but he already knew about the dome because he learn that in his class of history about the second war and that is why he needed a insider, besides only got that far because he was a good field commander

Yup his vast knowledge of Orgrimmar, from when he was a boy... running around in Orgimmar, in the secret royal passageways.
It's a game, none of this secret passageways matters in WoW. Both factions know what to do once they get into each other's cities, just look at how the Alliance was able to get Alliance race spies in Orgrimmar and Undercity.
If this was ever a problem, Sylvanas can just raise someone who will instantly betray their people and spill the beans. or can be used to bring the plague in themselves.

Well Orgrimmar wasn't a good fortress back with Thrall and while you have a point about how missused/useless is to have spies thing in this game, still having knowlege is better than go blind, just ask Anduin about that

I know it sucks, Horde characters still living is just the worse, only Alliance and there 20+ prominent characters should live forever! Look at it this way, every time the WRITERs want to make a pvp expansion, they drag a Horde character through the mud to do it. "Lets destroy 2 cities to start this one off, who should do it?" "Just have Sylvanas destroy both!".... -_-

IKR the hordes has to always play the villain and losing leaders without reason and for worse repeating the storyline of the horde identity crisis and saving the horde themself, to be honest I wouldn't mind if she keeps the charge of Warchief because if Blizzard puts Saurfang or Baine, they can't do another faction or even a cold war between factions so they will go with the same route of disposing and putting a more "active and aggresive" warchief to kick another war or hostilities with the excuse to keep the 2 factions system, we lost Thrall for Garrosh only to de disposed, fine Vol'jin was a good middle ground but then Legion happened, now Sylvanas doing Garrosh things even knowing in full detail the horde is capable of kick her out in the middle of the war if they don't feel good with her at charge, there are some glimps of hope with Talanji wanting war, the Maghar Thrall rule 63, the elves supports her kinda, now only hoping if Vol'Jin wants to make her rule just since he is hunting in the shadow lands currently

Argus was turned into a Fel world and was used to anchor demon souls and hasten their resurrection. He wasn't used to resurrect them, that was something that was already natural to them. That's not to say she wont have resurrecting powers, just that your conclusion from Argus can so she can is wrong.

Actually Argus was capable of resurrect demons killed even in places fulled with fel energy or in the nether itself and besides I actually believe she has already that kind of power if she turns out to be the entity to resurrect Vol'jin

Mhmmm interesting little idea

I can't see her using the shadowlands as she is now, that being an unborn titan. Maybe when she's born and if she gains powers of the the shadowlands or even has death powers, that might be a possibility, but right now she's just some yolk that needs to be molded. I've theorized on here before that Azeroth could be born as a world size Val'kyr and with Death creeping around, it might be a thing. Would be interesting if she raised the dead to fight the Void Lords. But YoggSaron and his minions, if they faced a force of death, i can't see it being by her as she is now.

Yes she is unborn but probably knows how to use some of her power already and can even manipulate events if the voljin thing turns out to be her and she looked back at Sargeras back in the war of ancients so her baby phase passed a long time ago, besides she has been hyped as being THE WORLD SOUL, not just the average titan, but someone more powerful than the Pantheon and Sargeras and the dude was powerful enough to deal with the void lords without them using another titan soul to boost their powers and with all the problems in the shadowlands that are being keeped mentioned and that "shadow" entity, she could use some help to get rid of her troubles like that entity, N'zoth and the Naarus if they try to do anything funny in the meantime(which is 100% sure to happend if Calia starts to raise an army and the lightforged draenei are still loyal to the naarus), also as a funny thing since I learned she was very special I though she will go avatar with dominating every magic field like life,arcane, void, fel, ect

[lockybalboa]

Only the art team is doing a good job, the design and lore people are just slacking on their jobs; amateurs could do better. They should all be replaced.

[Yriel]

What is raiding Horde cities for when you fuck right off after you're done raiding it?

So you actually want to throw the Horde out of the expansion. Ok if that is actually your idea then further discussion is useless.

Same with Teldrassil - Undercity. Teldrassil was conquered by Horde. What about the Undercity? Angry screamo blown it before Alliance could get anything done.

Teldrassil was conquered by Horde? Have i missed that? I just saw some catapults firing over the straight. As far as i know not one Horde Soldier actually entered Teldrassil, let alone conquering it (as opposed to the Alliance that actually fought IN Uncercity twice). Now both cities are destroyed but apparently that is somehow a win for the Horde.. whatever.[/QUOTE]

[Iversithyy]

Do you want me to write a whole novel about it, including all the fine details? I said it in the first post you replied to.

What is raiding Horde cities for when you fuck right off after you're done raiding it?

Same with Teldrassil - Undercity. Teldrassil was conquered by Horde. What about the Undercity? Angry screamo blown it before Alliance could get anything done.

Why add that if not wanting to show Alliance how pathetically useless they are?

What's worse, this trend keeps repeating over and over, they start hyping up some big stuff, but as Alliance player, you can't help it but start wondering how will they make Horde look like the real victors.

Fucking WoD starts with Maraad saying "Not this time". Third leveling zone in, he lays face buried in dirt and the whole expansion proceeds with dead draenei being piled up and mass soul drained, ending with an orc, waving his axe, screaming "DRRRAENOR IS FRRRRRREEEEEE", mind that he was the big baddie from the start.

Siege of Orgrimmar - we might as well be raiding any other zone, result would be the same. Just like that, Siege of Zuldazar (or whatever is the name) is as much hypeworthy. Actually this time, we lose some more assets too, as opposed to SoO.

Or the whole Vindicaar case. Being a big Lightforged fan, I foolishly thought I might see them actually use it. Maybe see the Lightforged wreak havoc on Horde, you know, being the "living weapons", with all the cool light-fueled gadgets at their disposal. Instead, the only Lightforged you can see are the innkeepers on the Horde continent and a 7th Legion quartermaster.
Not even bothering explaining (making up some shitty story) why Vindicaar is not being used, they simply said that they forgot about it or didn't feel like using it. Maybe they ran out of time as they were busy making up more cool shit for Nathan the edgy cool guy who has always something edgy and cool to say.

So yeah, Alliance players have nothing to be hyped about, since they've proved over and over that the will get shat on one way or another.

You think this is part of the usual Management decisions? Majority plays horde (cause of earlier fuck ups I guess) and now they just want to please the masses?
Imo that would be stupid but would kinda align with Act-Blizz way of handling things. (at least nowadays)

[Aleksej89]

Blizzards story telling is even more pathetic and awful than ever before.

Its just unbelievable how incompetent they are.

Instead of making just a couple of good scenes where we get to see really powerful characters shine they make all characters feel like bland sh*t and perform even worse...