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  1. #361
    Quote Originally Posted by Tabrotar View Post
    You mean Dengauer or what his name was who wrote "In the Mirror" and that´s basically him remodell Nathanos as he wants to look and then have posted his "love" for Sylvanas on his twitter.

    See here https://imgur.com/FX4poT6
    yep the cringe is too strong in this one, that expalins a lot and now I am worried about the future storyline

  2. #362
    Quote Originally Posted by Malikath View Post
    except they've been wrong several times in the past even needing to retcon live quests from the canon.
    and that's just your irrelevant opinion.

    - - - Updated - - -



    that's probably because the original leader of the modern horde is the self-insert of metzen.
    just like the current nathanos bullshit this narcissistic stupidity inevitably taints the game.
    Good points.

    This is why you are a valued member of this community. Let me add that Blizz has relied on WoW fans to fix the story many, many times because WoW devs don't care for the story.
    Battle for Abilities = WoD 2.0


    Quote Originally Posted by Rekz View Post
    I'll trust blizzard over your assessment. They've been doing this for a long time. It may very well be that your class is nerfed in which case, your class will feel as if it doesn't work correctly.

  3. #363
    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post
    Before you try to defend Blizzard - at least do your research. Only one Valkyr fights with the neckbeard self insert Nathanos.

    Valkyr are only ascended Vrykul warrior maidens. Obviously very powerful but not on the level of a god empowered priestess.



    In their own 8.1 writing they say the Night Warrior was able to end wars instantly for the Night Elves. Sweeping the field. Before she was even the Night Warrior, Tyrande was able to decimate armies with Starfall.

    In their own lore Malfurion is the most powerful Druid on the planet. Able to call the forest to crush his enemies. Yet he sits in Bear form swatting a Valkyr?

    This is what we call inconsistency. Would you like me to get you the dictionary definition?
    You do your reading better. When did i say both were involved in the fighting? I watched the whole questline buddy. One was fighting and the other was raising the elves.

    Sure, there is inconsistency because we don't have enough information and most of all cause it's just meant to be an introductory quest. No one big is supposed to die. It's just flavor for the warfront. I dunno, maybe i am not out to care about every little detail that it bothers me such.
    Would i have liked to see them kill Nathanos? Sure, he has it coming too. But i understand that we won't kill big characters in a patch when they make perfectly plausable raid bosses. And honestly, i'd rather it be that way as well.

  4. #364
    Quote Originally Posted by Lane View Post
    DBZ level writing is way more credit than I'm willing to give Blizzard writers. Also, Gohan didn't go SSJ2 until Cell destroyed Android 16, that was the trigger. Not that I'm a Malfurion fan, but I'm certainly not interested in seeing his head roll past Tyrande's feet (especially after all the other NE casualties already) before she's finally given the power to avenge her people.
    I can't say I'm interested in that either, but would that not drive her to levels of anger not even yet seen towards the Horde? It would also make for an interesting partial link to Thrall's moment of seeing Taretha's head thrown at his feet. Imagine her seeing his head, crying out in pain, then leveling a Horde settlement by herself. That would definitely make the Night Warrior seem like far more than she currently does.

  5. #365
    Quote Originally Posted by AngerFork View Post
    I can't say I'm interested in that either, but would that not drive her to levels of anger not even yet seen towards the Horde? It would also make for an interesting partial link to Thrall's moment of seeing Taretha's head thrown at his feet. Imagine her seeing his head, crying out in pain, then leveling a Horde settlement by herself. That would definitely make the Night Warrior seem like far more than she currently does.
    I'm not interested in a Thrall parallel and as a long time NE fan I've been over the story since War of Thorns. I had no expectation of NEs being written well in BfA, so this being a continuation of the abysmal pre-patch isn't surprising just disappointing.

    I never wanted a return to the faction war in the first place and the more unforgivable atrocities the Horde commits against NEs the more ridiculous it's going to be when we inevitably return to fighting alongside each other. Tyrande leveling one Horde settlement isn't going to be satisfactory vengeance either, especially since the writers will probably just turn it into another Camp T rather than any meaningful victory. It's not like she needed the Night Warrior powers to do that anyway, it's that she and Malfurion have been written almost to the point of being powerless. How the Night Warrior is portrayed in 8.1 might make sense if Tyrande had started off as someone with no pre-existing abilities of note, but that's not the case.
    "That's your opinion, I'm sorry you have it."

  6. #366
    The problem is Blizzard depends on scripted on rails storytelling and micro management of gameplay in an MMO which should have more player agency. Any town in game should be able to be attacked by the other faction if that faction has enough forces, NPCs and units to attack. Of course getting enough units, NPCs and resources to attack (or defend) is always the gatekeeper that stops this from being a garden variety affair. But Blizzard never built WOW to be a large scale siege and warfare engine. So you can attack NPCs all you want. They just die and come back over and over.

    Which makes the idea that Blizzard would make faction conflict the basis of an expansion, when they know they don't have the engine to support open world conflict on a large scale makes no sense. Giving players simulated losses and simulated victories via predetermined "story points" and "scenarios" is just dumb. There is nothing there to actually win or lose because of the theme park nature of the game. Its fine if you do it with the made up npc faction of the moment because it is the made up npc faction of the moment. But when you do it to the playable factions it is different.

    As many people said before BFA even came out, faction war is dumb because neither side can truly lose. All this apocalyptic burning of teldrassil and destruction of lordaeron does is makes folks mad. Primarily because Blizzard doesn't know how to create new towns and cities over time. An MMO should be like a living world where things change over time. Things get blown up, but also new stuff gets built. But not in WOW. That is why many zones are stuck in time warps from 7+ years ago.
    Last edited by InfiniteCharger; 2018-10-12 at 11:53 PM.

  7. #367
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxrokur View Post
    Wotlk Sylvanas yes, probably would have spended a lot of things mutilating the corpse of Arthas if she ever finded and because she doesn't have the power to raise new undeads
    At the time, her only 2 goals were to kill Arthas and end her life, besides the obvious that Bolvar wouldn't allow her to take Arthas body, let alone doing touch it, I don't see her taking it and trying to resurrect him. I know some people probably have some sick fantasies with her, being a dominatrix and torturing Arthas... but that's just not believable. Her biggest fear was Arthas ever having the chance of capturing her again(Nightmare) and would never allow that chance to ever happen.

    all of that changed with the Val'kyrs and forcing Arthas into a un-live of forced servitude is too tempting to let pass that opportunity.
    All that changed after she killed herself, she wanted nothing to do with the Valkyr before that. And that last part, too tempting to let pass that opportunity... giving him the opportunity to get free and re-enslave her is a risk she'd never take.
    Arthas learned to make Val'kyrs with capturing one in the shadow lands and doing reverse engineering
    Not sure about capturing, in Chronicles it says that he learned of the Valkyr from the Vrykul and attempted to make his own and eventually succeeded and with them his power increased like crazy.
    only Helya, Eyir and Odyn knows the secret to make more and doubt Arthas ever meet with any of these guys
    The Lich King didn't meet them, no but they're not the only ones who know. At least one of Sylvanas' Val'kyr if not all know how to make more, as there's more Valkyr in the Forsaken besides Sylvanas' original 8(it's Cell Juniors all over again)
    Sylvanas has the means to make more Val'kyr thanks to the Valkyr or possibly learning how from Helya(who she learned for from the Valkyr)
    that is the whole point with her bargain with Helya, sure she tried and probably still researching but so far we still have the same 4(until patch 8.1)
    We still don't know what was bargained with Helya and she has more than 4 Valkyr. Most likely the problem is that Sylvanas isn't the Lich King, she doesn't grow in power and thus she stuck with the few strong Valkyr she has and can only have them make weak ones, where the Lich King continuously grew in power and could keep making more powerful Valkyr. Arthas without the Lich King's unlimited power, isn't going to help.

    About death knights power levels and free will, the ebon blade under the control of Arthas or dks such as Morgraine are still op even under mind control, they just need some autonomy to think battle plans and to improvise if the situation requires.
    The Knights of the Ebonblade were the ones I was talking about @[email protected]
    Their personalities and more free will than mindless scourge is what made them more powerful and yes they had more free will than most of the Scourge, proof by the fact that they rebelled literally right next to the Lich King because their feelings were hurt.
    The thing about stormwind, yes we could stealthy enter into the city by the main gain but Arthas a guy from the royalty, surely knows more than an average forsakens would know about those cities, secret passages to escape or enter into the city in case of being siege
    Pretty sure your grasping at straws here. Secret passages to the castle really don't mean much, plague the city and raise some guards and get your answers. Not really a selling point for uses of Arthas under Sylvanas.
    that is how he managed to enter in silvermoon in the first place
    Yup, exactly how he did it, got someone who know all the secret royal passageways... oh wait that never happened
    he knew about the defense system and needed someone inside to desactivate, with that kind of knowledge it would be very useful in any invasion
    He didn't know quel'thalas' defenses and got lucky that he sensed one of the archmages inside who lusted for power and hated his own people to deactive the gates(not secret royal passageways) and if he didn't get lucky, the scourge would have most likely failed because they weren't prepared for the Elfgates.
    with that kind of knowledge it would be very useful in any invasion, in fact he smuggled plaged grain in Stormwind and Orgrimmar in the pre-event of wotlk, something not everyone can do.
    Yup his vast knowledge of Orgrimmar, from when he was a boy... running around in Orgimmar, in the secret royal passageways.
    It's a game, none of this secret passageways matters in WoW. Both factions know what to do once they get into each other's cities, just look at how the Alliance was able to get Alliance race spies in Orgrimmar and Undercity.
    If this was ever a problem, Sylvanas can just raise someone who will instantly betray their people and spill the beans. or can be used to bring the plague in themselves.
    About Sylvanas, probably she wouldn't be around or maybe she does if the azerite fix the shit the horde has done(writers saving her or just wanting to piss off the alliance)
    I know it sucks, Horde characters still living is just the worse, only Alliance and there 20+ prominent characters should live forever! Look at it this way, every time the WRITERs want to make a pvp expansion, they drag a Horde character through the mud to do it. "Lets destroy 2 cities to start this one off, who should do it?" "Just have Sylvanas destroy both!".... -_-
    if Argus can instant rez demons, Azeroth can do that as well with the average azerthorian
    Argus was turned into a Fel world and was used to anchor demon souls and hasten their resurrection. He wasn't used to resurrect them, that was something that was already natural to them. That's not to say she wont have resurrecting powers, just that your conclusion from Argus can so she can is wrong.
    she will only need grasp control over the shadow lands or have some ferryman that can transport souls to her and if you ask why would the planet do that
    Mhmmm interesting little idea
    well there is a old god with a massive naga army and faceless, probably she want to get rid of that and will need a lot of hands, besides we can play(writers) with the idea of Azeroth's own crusade over the cosmos with her inhabitants becoming into pawns
    I can't see her using the shadowlands as she is now, that being an unborn titan. Maybe when she's born and if she gains powers of the the shadowlands or even has death powers, that might be a possibility, but right now she's just some yolk that needs to be molded. I've theorized on here before that Azeroth could be born as a world size Val'kyr and with Death creeping around, it might be a thing. Would be interesting if she raised the dead to fight the Void Lords. But YoggSaron and his minions, if they faced a force of death, i can't see it being by her as she is now.

  8. #368
    Pandaren Monk Maxrokur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeBogina View Post
    At the time, her only 2 goals were to kill Arthas and end her life, besides the obvious that Bolvar wouldn't allow her to take Arthas body, let alone doing touch it, I don't see her taking it and trying to resurrect him. I know some people probably have some sick fantasies with her, being a dominatrix and torturing Arthas... but that's just not believable. Her biggest fear was Arthas ever having the chance of capturing her again(Nightmare) and would never allow that chance to ever happen.
    Well Bolvar was in his year 0 so probably wouldn't have done anything, even chronicles mention he got a wake up call when sylvanas made a deal with the val'kyrs but to be fair the only credible way for her to find Arthas and keep him as a servant would be if the 8 valkyrs told her his location and suggested they can resurrect him and bound his existence to her soul, so if she dies, so does him and get back to the shadowlands but that would have raised a lot of concerns from Sylvanas being pushed to bring back the ex lich king

    All that changed after she killed herself, she wanted nothing to do with the Valkyr before that. And that last part, too tempting to let pass that opportunity... giving him the opportunity to get free and re-enslave her is a risk she'd never take.
    Well she is raising ex enemies that back stab her like Gallen Trollbane, Godfrey which cost her others 3, and probably Delaryn more later, so as long she gets the upper hand or some powerful servant, she wouldn't mind, besides she would take a lot of measures to keep arthas under her control or have some lethal poison engaged in his body in case she dies or something

    Not sure about capturing, in Chronicles it says that he learned of the Valkyr from the Vrykul and attempted to make his own and eventually succeeded and with them his power increased like crazy.
    She actually capture some of them in the shadow lands, there is twitter from Afrasiabi about that and you see in the wowpedia, besides part of the Val'kyr power depends from the master as you can see Helya and Odyn can resurrect anyone(Ymiron)

    The Lich King didn't meet them, no but they're not the only ones who know. At least one of Sylvanas' Val'kyr if not all know how to make more, as there's more Valkyr in the Forsaken besides Sylvanas' original 8(it's Cell Juniors all over again)
    Sylvanas has the means to make more Val'kyr thanks to the Valkyr or possibly learning how from Helya(who she learned for from the Valkyr)
    We still don't know what was bargained with Helya and she has more than 4 Valkyr. Most likely the problem is that Sylvanas isn't the Lich King, she doesn't grow in power and thus she stuck with the few strong Valkyr she has and can only have them make weak ones, where the Lich King continuously grew in power and could keep making more powerful Valkyr. Arthas without the Lich King's unlimited power, isn't going to help.
    The lesser Valkyrs seem to be left into the oblivion because there aren't mention of them or else Sylvanas wouldn't be bring the remaining 9 to any field with humans, besides we are talking about Arthas at his DK power level, he could raise dragons even with the lich king power leaking and you don't need his permission to use necromancy as you can see in the cult of the danmed in Andorhal and the ebon blade from wotlk to the start of legion, besides he probably knows a few tricks that could be useful to learn

    The Knights of the Ebonblade were the ones I was talking about @[email protected]
    Their personalities and more free will than mindless scourge is what made them more powerful and yes they had more free will than most of the Scourge, proof by the fact that they rebelled literally right next to the Lich King because their feelings were hurt.
    They rebelled after Fordring broke the main control after defeating the ebon blade in the light chapel or do you think Thassarian, Koltira and Darion were following him willingly? Considering how they react and act after being free, they would have killed Arthas before to follow him

    Pretty sure your grasping at straws here. Secret passages to the castle really don't mean much, plague the city and raise some guards and get your answers. Not really a selling point for uses of Arthas under Sylvanas.

    Yup, exactly how he did it, got someone who know all the secret royal passageways... oh wait that never happened
    He didn't know quel'thalas' defenses and got lucky that he sensed one of the archmages inside who lusted for power and hated his own people to deactive the gates(not secret royal passageways) and if he didn't get lucky, the scourge would have most likely failed because they weren't prepared for the Elfgates.
    Actually secret passages could be useful for assasination missions, entering the castle of Anduin with a secret pasagge, assasim him and drag the body to be raised to terrorize the population could be a very good tactic, things like this will be only know by officers and the royal guard which wouldn't participate in any battlefield and if she is already sieging the city, well it would be pointless in that case but every media has made clear the horde doesn't have the means to invade stormwind and probably the knowledge over the city is very limited or else some elite squad forsaken would be stealing noble corpses near of the cementery to get more information, about the elf gates, he got help from Drak which told him about the gates, the keys but he already knew about the dome because he learn that in his class of history about the second war and that is why he needed a insider, besides only got that far because he was a good field commander

    Yup his vast knowledge of Orgrimmar, from when he was a boy... running around in Orgimmar, in the secret royal passageways.
    It's a game, none of this secret passageways matters in WoW. Both factions know what to do once they get into each other's cities, just look at how the Alliance was able to get Alliance race spies in Orgrimmar and Undercity.
    If this was ever a problem, Sylvanas can just raise someone who will instantly betray their people and spill the beans. or can be used to bring the plague in themselves.
    Well Orgrimmar wasn't a good fortress back with Thrall and while you have a point about how missused/useless is to have spies thing in this game, still having knowlege is better than go blind, just ask Anduin about that

    I know it sucks, Horde characters still living is just the worse, only Alliance and there 20+ prominent characters should live forever! Look at it this way, every time the WRITERs want to make a pvp expansion, they drag a Horde character through the mud to do it. "Lets destroy 2 cities to start this one off, who should do it?" "Just have Sylvanas destroy both!".... -_-
    IKR the hordes has to always play the villain and losing leaders without reason and for worse repeating the storyline of the horde identity crisis and saving the horde themself, to be honest I wouldn't mind if she keeps the charge of Warchief because if Blizzard puts Saurfang or Baine, they can't do another faction or even a cold war between factions so they will go with the same route of disposing and putting a more "active and aggresive" warchief to kick another war or hostilities with the excuse to keep the 2 factions system, we lost Thrall for Garrosh only to de disposed, fine Vol'jin was a good middle ground but then Legion happened, now Sylvanas doing Garrosh things even knowing in full detail the horde is capable of kick her out in the middle of the war if they don't feel good with her at charge, there are some glimps of hope with Talanji wanting war, the Maghar Thrall rule 63, the elves supports her kinda, now only hoping if Vol'Jin wants to make her rule just since he is hunting in the shadow lands currently

    Argus was turned into a Fel world and was used to anchor demon souls and hasten their resurrection. He wasn't used to resurrect them, that was something that was already natural to them. That's not to say she wont have resurrecting powers, just that your conclusion from Argus can so she can is wrong.
    Actually Argus was capable of resurrect demons killed even in places fulled with fel energy or in the nether itself and besides I actually believe she has already that kind of power if she turns out to be the entity to resurrect Vol'jin

    Mhmmm interesting little idea

    I can't see her using the shadowlands as she is now, that being an unborn titan. Maybe when she's born and if she gains powers of the the shadowlands or even has death powers, that might be a possibility, but right now she's just some yolk that needs to be molded. I've theorized on here before that Azeroth could be born as a world size Val'kyr and with Death creeping around, it might be a thing. Would be interesting if she raised the dead to fight the Void Lords. But YoggSaron and his minions, if they faced a force of death, i can't see it being by her as she is now.
    Yes she is unborn but probably knows how to use some of her power already and can even manipulate events if the voljin thing turns out to be her and she looked back at Sargeras back in the war of ancients so her baby phase passed a long time ago, besides she has been hyped as being THE WORLD SOUL, not just the average titan, but someone more powerful than the Pantheon and Sargeras and the dude was powerful enough to deal with the void lords without them using another titan soul to boost their powers and with all the problems in the shadowlands that are being keeped mentioned and that "shadow" entity, she could use some help to get rid of her troubles like that entity, N'zoth and the Naarus if they try to do anything funny in the meantime(which is 100% sure to happend if Calia starts to raise an army and the lightforged draenei are still loyal to the naarus), also as a funny thing since I learned she was very special I though she will go avatar with dominating every magic field like life,arcane, void, fel, ect
    Quote Originally Posted by Varitok View Post
    No, she is my waifu. Stop posting and delete this thread immediately.
    Quote Originally Posted by lockybalboa
    Fuck off Lore. Do something about your hair.

  9. #369
    Only the art team is doing a good job, the design and lore people are just slacking on their jobs; amateurs could do better. They should all be replaced.

  10. #370
    Quote Originally Posted by Louz View Post
    What is raiding Horde cities for when you fuck right off after you're done raiding it?
    So you actually want to throw the Horde out of the expansion. Ok if that is actually your idea then further discussion is useless.

    Quote Originally Posted by Louz View Post
    Same with Teldrassil - Undercity. Teldrassil was conquered by Horde. What about the Undercity? Angry screamo blown it before Alliance could get anything done.
    Teldrassil was conquered by Horde? Have i missed that? I just saw some catapults firing over the straight. As far as i know not one Horde Soldier actually entered Teldrassil, let alone conquering it (as opposed to the Alliance that actually fought IN Uncercity twice). Now both cities are destroyed but apparently that is somehow a win for the Horde.. whatever.[/QUOTE]

  11. #371
    Quote Originally Posted by Louz View Post
    Do you want me to write a whole novel about it, including all the fine details? I said it in the first post you replied to.

    What is raiding Horde cities for when you fuck right off after you're done raiding it?

    Same with Teldrassil - Undercity. Teldrassil was conquered by Horde. What about the Undercity? Angry screamo blown it before Alliance could get anything done.

    Why add that if not wanting to show Alliance how pathetically useless they are?

    What's worse, this trend keeps repeating over and over, they start hyping up some big stuff, but as Alliance player, you can't help it but start wondering how will they make Horde look like the real victors.

    Fucking WoD starts with Maraad saying "Not this time". Third leveling zone in, he lays face buried in dirt and the whole expansion proceeds with dead draenei being piled up and mass soul drained, ending with an orc, waving his axe, screaming "DRRRAENOR IS FRRRRRREEEEEE", mind that he was the big baddie from the start.

    Siege of Orgrimmar - we might as well be raiding any other zone, result would be the same. Just like that, Siege of Zuldazar (or whatever is the name) is as much hypeworthy. Actually this time, we lose some more assets too, as opposed to SoO.

    Or the whole Vindicaar case. Being a big Lightforged fan, I foolishly thought I might see them actually use it. Maybe see the Lightforged wreak havoc on Horde, you know, being the "living weapons", with all the cool light-fueled gadgets at their disposal. Instead, the only Lightforged you can see are the innkeepers on the Horde continent and a 7th Legion quartermaster.
    Not even bothering explaining (making up some shitty story) why Vindicaar is not being used, they simply said that they forgot about it or didn't feel like using it. Maybe they ran out of time as they were busy making up more cool shit for Nathan the edgy cool guy who has always something edgy and cool to say.

    So yeah, Alliance players have nothing to be hyped about, since they've proved over and over that the will get shat on one way or another.
    You think this is part of the usual Management decisions? Majority plays horde (cause of earlier fuck ups I guess) and now they just want to please the masses?
    Imo that would be stupid but would kinda align with Act-Blizz way of handling things. (at least nowadays)

  12. #372
    Blizzards story telling is even more pathetic and awful than ever before.

    Its just unbelievable how incompetent they are.

    Instead of making just a couple of good scenes where we get to see really powerful characters shine they make all characters feel like bland sh*t and perform even worse...
    BfA = Boredom for all...

  13. #373
    Quote Originally Posted by Yriel View Post
    So you actually want to throw the Horde out of the expansion. Ok if that is actually your idea then further discussion is useless.


    Teldrassil was conquered by Horde? Have i missed that? I just saw some catapults firing over the straight. As far as i know not one Horde Soldier actually entered Teldrassil, let alone conquering it (as opposed to the Alliance that actually fought IN Uncercity twice). Now both cities are destroyed but apparently that is somehow a win for the Horde.. whatever.
    To the first point, trading cities/outposts should be a key feature of this expansion. The full controll should follow a patch where you attack and defeat an area, but by the end of the expansion both factions should have taken key strategic spots from each other, thus expanding what each faction experiences. It would also be fun for players to have an area they inhabit that is the opposite factions architecture.

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