Ret could use a buff (PVE)

[Deleted]

You're being hyperbolic not me lol. I simply offered some ideas for gameplay mechanisms that I either miss or desire, or believe are underutilized.

It's true that all we NEED is a numbers buff, but it would still be an anemic gameplay experience. If all you care about is being top of the meters I can respect that, but there are some of us who also care about how a class feels or plays. I know I'm not alone in that. Your analysis is also shallow in that you acknowledge we need a numbers buff and that added an additional AOE ability would MANDATE a nerf to an existing one. That's an assumption, not a fact as you state. It's a good guess for sure, especially considering past dev behavior, but I wouldn't state it as a fact.

Consecration by itself is bland and boring, but it is a thematic element to Paladin class fantasy and as such is deserving of some mechanical complexity IMO. I cited a way to add that in. I could come up with a half a dozen more, but I kept it simple.

Regarding WoA - it's because it's insanely strong. I actually love it, it's by and far my favorite ability in the current toolkit, but it hogs up so much budget. It's why I advocate for a slightly different approach to design where talents empower your existing abilities in different fashions. I'm ok with WoA being nerfed if it gives room for other mechanically differentiating functions to exist. I'm ok with WoA being nerfed if I can talent into a better version of it.

Hope this helps you understand my logic a bit better.

What makes you think i don't care about how the class plays? I did say Talent tweaks are welcome.
We do not need a total revamp though. What we have now is better than baseline Inquisition and judgement debuff window. Yes, i'd like to have more tools, but certainly we don't need an effin static weak ass AoE in consecration that will result in a DS nerf. Consecration is just outright a bad skill. It's the domain of prot paladins. Let's leave it at that. I'd rather have a 30 sec WoA than a consecration any day.
Also even death and decay has to have the special effect of allowing you to cleave when it's up. Consecration just has no use without extra functionality.

I understand that you want to give something to get something. But your proposed changes to WoA and baseline consecration would just make us less bursty. We get to be bursty every 45 seconds and we lack sustained. Sustained is only important at high keys. For that, the solution is a buff to DS. Yes, it increases our burst a bit, but our burst and sustained is still very far away from the likes of warriors and DH's.

[Wrecktangle]

What makes you think i don't care about how the class plays? I did say Talent tweaks are welcome.
We do not need a total revamp though. What we have now is better than baseline Inquisition and judgement debuff window. Yes, i'd like to have more tools, but certainly we don't need an effin static weak ass AoE in consecration that will result in a DS nerf. Consecration is just outright a bad skill. It's the domain of prot paladins. Let's leave it at that. I'd rather have a 30 sec WoA than a consecration any day.
Also even death and decay has to have the special effect of allowing you to cleave when it's up. Consecration just has no use without extra functionality.

I understand that you want to give something to get something. But your proposed changes to WoA and baseline consecration would just make us less bursty. We get to be bursty every 45 seconds and we lack sustained. Sustained is only important at high keys. For that, the solution is a buff to DS. Yes, it increases our burst a bit, but our burst and sustained is still very far away from the likes of warriors and DH's.

Again, your analysis is one dimensional. You are complaining about numbers. I don't care about numbers. That's tuning. They'll either get it right or they won't. I can't sweat that. You assume that by doing X they have to do Y, which is nothing more than a guess. They could leave our burst alone (DS) and add consecration and then STILL buff our numbers and we could still be weak in sustained/burst AOE.

All I can sweat is that the class feels like it's lacking some tools/thematic elements. I gave examples where I think they can add complexity/depth/engagement and hit some thematic elements. They don't need to add all of them, or any of them, they're merely ideas that I contributed to for fun.

I like consecration thematically. I think there's plenty of room for it to have unique mechanics in the Ret toolkit. I do agree that baseline it's useless, and I probably should have clarified that originally. It needs an effect attached to it. I'm not actually confident that HoPo by itself is qualification enough.

[Deleted]

Again, your analysis is one dimensional. You are complaining about numbers. I don't care about numbers. That's tuning. They'll either get it right or they won't. I can't sweat that. You assume that by doing X they have to do Y, which is nothing more than a guess. They could leave our burst alone (DS) and add consecration and then STILL buff our numbers and we could still be weak in sustained/burst AOE.

All I can sweat is that the class feels like it's lacking some tools/thematic elements. I gave examples where I think they can add complexity/depth/engagement and hit some thematic elements. They don't need to add all of them, or any of them, they're merely ideas that I contributed to for fun.

I like consecration thematically. I think there's plenty of room for it to have unique mechanics in the Ret toolkit. I do agree that baseline it's useless, and I probably should have clarified that originally. It needs an effect attached to it. I'm not actually confident that HoPo by itself is qualification enough.

Numbers are inherently tied to how enjoyable a class feels. You press something and something awesome happens and you see a direct impact as a number or mob health loss. If all your skills hit like wet noodles i guarantee you will find it less fun.
You thinking that DS wouldn't see a nerf for consecration is naive, sorry to say.

I think the tools you feel you are missing and i agree on are things that have to be available through talents. Baseline the class is fine in my opinion, aside from WoA wich i think should also be baseline. NOT consecration. Everything but consecration. It's gonna be uber frustrating to use. I already know what it feels like from my DK.

[Wrecktangle]

Numbers are inherently tied to how enjoyable a class feels. You press something and something awesome happens and you see a direct impact as a number or mob health loss. If all your skills hit like wet noodles i guarantee you will find it less fun.
You thinking that DS wouldn't see a nerf for consecration is naive, sorry to say.

I think the tools you feel you are missing and i agree on are things that have to be available through talents. Baseline the class is fine in my opinion, aside from WoA wich i think should also be baseline. NOT consecration. Everything but consecration. It's gonna be uber frustrating to use. I already know what it feels like from my DK.

I have numbers turned off so how much they hit for xyz matters little to me. As long as I am competitive and the class is fun to play I am happy. If shifting damage out of DS into Cons still leaves me with relatively the same overall I'd be ok with it.

However, at the end of the day that's also bad analysis on my part. They "shouldn't" make our AOE harder to maximize without a commensurate increase to the ceiling. We can argue that all day long and get no where, but we can at least agree on that there is more room for depth in the talent tree and maybe a tiny bit baseline.