Ret could use a buff (PVE)

[Phildozer]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/19

All specs down there at the bottom of the barrel of Mythic Uldir have had a buff in tuning passes, we have been heavily affected by trait nerfs and have had no buffs to balance that. My group wouldn't even take me if it wasn't for Wisdom.

[StayTuned]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/19

All specs down there at the bottom of the barrel of Mythic Uldir have had a buff in tuning passes, we have been heavily affected by trait nerfs and have had no buffs to balance that. My group wouldn't even take me if it wasn't for Wisdom.

While I agree that Paladin Ret seems to be at the bottom, I feel that the general difference between top and bottom have never been this insignificant.

[Demsi]

It's kinda skewed since you have specs above ret that are played way less, therefore creating a higher score than what it would have if it had the same play rate

[Sez]

Ret needs an AoE buff, it needs another button to push, waiting for WoA to do even any kind of decent AoE damage sucks ass. And the divine storm azerite trait is quite lack luster and doesn't feel worth using most of the time.

[mjolnrik]

Yea but you say you are still in the group because of wisdom. That means your utility is worth enough to account for your lower dps. Yea it would be nice if all dps were equal but then what would keep the classes with a lack of utility in the group?
But yea i agree that some classes who have both crazy deepz and utility are a bit strong but thats just some classes being broken rather than ret being weak.

[Phildozer]

Yea but you say you are still in the group because of wisdom. That means your utility is worth enough to account for your lower dps. Yea it would be nice if all dps were equal but then what would keep the classes with a lack of utility in the group?
But yea i agree that some classes who have both crazy deepz and utility are a bit strong but thats just some classes being broken rather than ret being weak.

I mean frost has insane aoe/burst and a brez, we have bop that we use on zul and thats about it.

[meroko]

our ST is fine, we need an AOE buff though.

[Bling]

Yea but you say you are still in the group because of wisdom. That means your utility is worth enough to account for your lower dps. Yea it would be nice if all dps were equal but then what would keep the classes with a lack of utility in the group?
But yea i agree that some classes who have both crazy deepz and utility are a bit strong but thats just some classes being broken rather than ret being weak.

Shame they are nerfing wisdom by 50% next patch

[Johnmatrix]

our ST is fine, we need an AOE buff though.

Exactly. There is pretty much nothing wrong with single target damage, but divine storm is weak and we don't have anything other than that and long cd WoA. I don't understand why DS was weakened after Legion. It should be so strong that you can use it on 2 target cleave like in Legion. Now it's almost not noticable increase even on 3 mobs. Proper buff to DS and we would be much better and wouldn't hurt balance anywhere else.

[Sez]

I want a talent that makes TV hit a second target for X% of the initial damage, and make WoA baseline.

[Johnmatrix]

Atm at two target cleave which is oh so very common we suck I am not sure that buffing DS to the point that it is a dps increase at 2 targets is a solution though. Imo WoA should be baseline and then we should have a talent that helps two target cleave in its place. I think Lawbringer would make a fine PvE talent (obviously not % based).

I think it worked so well in Legion. The problem is that even clumped aoe without WoA is pretty bad atm, and that used to be a strength of rets. We suck in mythic+ damage too because of that. Buffing our cleave helps a bit in some situations, but something needs to happen to aoe too.

[Mardux]

I mean frost has insane aoe/burst and a brez, we have bop that we use on zul and thats about it.

We can't help that you don't use any utility aside from BoP during 1 fight.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

If you filter to 90th percentile, set it to DPS numbers and then go boss by boss it shows Ret isn't catastrophic compared to the other melee for most bosses. It's a bigger issue that some specs and in particular ranged dps are so far ahead, another "worry" you can have is that the encounters in Uldir are almost all ST which is supposed to be a strong point for Ret paladin. You can see what happens when AoE or cleave is added to encounters and then, yes, Ret is shit. But that's been a known factor since BfA Beta, Ret has zero AoE/cleave potential (close to zero anyways).

[arukas]

Other than ST, paladin DPS seems a bit lackluster. Nonetheless there are other specs far worse than us. My only gripe right now is getting a M+ pugs with my semi-geared alt :S

My whishlist:
- Crusader Strike WITHOUT a cooldown - this alone would make the gameplay more fluid, removing those gaps waiting for an ability to click.
- WoA baseline and replace that talent with TV cleaving or somenthing.
- Divine Storm flat out increase in damage so it becomes worth on 3+ targets (since with 2 TV would cleave)
- Judgement bouncing so it would hit 2-3 target.

I'll keep on dreaming

[Neldarie]

If you're not top of meters, you're shit because you do not bring anything to the raid period. If you count measly shit like Wisdom utility then you need some waking up to do. Days of legion are over sadly, now we're back to "what do you bring to the group/raid" playstyle (group buffs/target debuffs). And ye ret brings nothing of those.

Non gimmicky single target = average at best.
Sustain AE = worst in game of ALL specs.

[nyc81991]

I really want them to bring back Empowered Divine Storm. Not only would it be an AoE buff but it was a lot of fun weaving Divine Storm into the ST rotation.

They also need to straight up buff Divine Storm to be worth using on 2+ targets.

[ulmer9]

Consecration needs to be baseline like holy/prot (no holy power gain) and they can keep the talented version

[Demsi]

I really want them to bring back Empowered Divine Storm. Not only would it be an AoE buff but it was a lot of fun weaving Divine Storm into the ST rotation.

They also need to straight up buff Divine Storm to be worth using on 2+ targets.

https://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=286393...ower#changelog

Here you go Chief

[Burgerberg]

Is this really a surprise? You people have been told for a long long time that Blizzard seems to have some sort of fixation to make ret subpar. They've always treated the spec poorly. Remember what they did with Legion at the beginning and the trinket nerf directly to rets?

People were going ga-ga over them this expansion, now that other classes are geared they are falling down the list. They still don't scale as well as most other melee; these idiot game designers have little clue.

[Revamp Man]

I mean frost has insane aoe/burst and a brez, we have bop that we use on zul and thats about it.

You have that
LoH
Bubble
Execute talent
Blessings
Lackluster ToK knockoff
You have utility

- - - Updated - - -

If you filter to 90th percentile, set it to DPS numbers and then go boss by boss it shows Ret isn't catastrophic compared to the other melee for most bosses. It's a bigger issue that some specs and in particular ranged dps are so far ahead, another "worry" you can have is that the encounters in Uldir are almost all ST which is supposed to be a strong point for Ret paladin. You can see what happens when AoE or cleave is added to encounters and then, yes, Ret is shit. But that's been a known factor since BfA Beta, Ret has zero AoE/cleave potential (close to zero anyways).

Taloc: lots of down time
Mother: unless you are in final group down time is a problem again
Fetid: mostly st
Vectis: mostly st but again lots of down time with phase shift
Zek: arguably great for ret but that's only during last phase
Zul: lots of cleave
Mythrax: st
Ghuun:...yeah fuck that fight as anything maybe ret is ok with the execute but Idk