Why can't the father choose not to pay the child support if he wants abortion?

[Christan]

In regards to the "womens body is sacrosanct" idea when combined with this discussion.

There is always adoption, if the father doesnt want a child, and the mother cant afford one, they should have to split all pregnancy related bills, the father should have the option to say no, just like the mother can, or the child can be adopted to a loving couple who cant have kids themselves(a very common problem lately)

None of that involves the sanctity of a womans body / abortion.

[kyoloco]

vasectomies ftw

[Craaazyyy]

Because she goes through 9 months of the blood sweat and tears of growing a human body in her body that have risks up to and including her death. Guess what if you don't want the chance of impregnating someone keep your dick dry, keep it wrapped, or get your tubes snipped. If a fetus comes to term that you helped create you are responsible for it so pay your share. I find it funny how the people usually calling for dads to not pay child support are also the ones saying abortions should be banned. Also for the most part those calling for abortions to be banned are also the ones crying hardest that social programs need to be cut down or completely. So what is it Pro-Lifers you seem to care so much about a fetus in a uterus but then when the fetus comes to term then instantly that baby and it's mother are societal leeches who need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps or die off. This political cartoon really says it all.

i dunno what you talking about.. you seem to completely miss the point

[Moralgy]

In regards to the "womens body is sacrosanc" idea when combined with this discussion.

There is always adoption, if the father doesnt want a child, and the mother cant afford one, they should have to split all pregnancy related bills, the father should have the option to say no, just like the mother can, or the child can be adopted to a loving couple who cant have kids themselves(a very common problem lately)

None of that involves the sanctity of a womans body / abortion.

So your idea is to overcrowd the adoption system even more?

[Jastall]

This is both correct and just. However what people are arguing for is having a say in the decision thay leads to the birth of the child. Since... you know. Something has to happen before we get to the child being born.

The something that happens is sex. Don't want a risk of having kids, don't have sex, period. Protection exists, and while not foolproof it is pretty effective, especially if multiple layers are used, ideally by both partners. In short, don't stick it in someone you don't trust.

Failing that, if a kid is to be born, s/he has to be taken care of by both parents no matter what. Fair to the father? Ideally no, I suppose, but fair for the kid, and they're the one that matter here. Their well-being is more important than the father's wallet.

[Baroclinic]

If a woman can choose (not) to abort without father's consent, why can't father choose not to pay child support if he wants her to do an abortion but she refuses? Either that or he should be able to stop the abortion but take full responsibility for the child once it's born.

Wouldn't that make the playing field equal?

Because any property within the body. and any actions, modifications, ect belongs to the owner of the body. Dumb question. You don't want babies, then hit a mannequin.

[kail]

Why do we have to pick up the tab for father? Why can't he just pay based on the amount money he makes period?

We pick up the tab for the ones who need it. If the man in question wants zilch to do with a kid and is forward about it during the pregnancy, he should have the same right to opt out as the mother. The mother still has the time to decide on her and possible child's future (abort, adopt, or take care of him/her).

[Craaazyyy]

Because any property within the body. and any actions, modifications, ect belongs to the owner of the body. Dumb question. You don't want babies, then hit a mannequin.

well if it belongs to the owner of the body what does it have to do with father and what is he paying for?

so its like this: "its 100% mine, but also yours, but still mine"

makes no fucking sense

[Christan]

vasectomies ftw

Yep forgot to mention that condoms and celibacy.
Granted some people with very strong opinions for either side may be incels

Adoption, fixes arguments for both sides, mother cant afford it and needs child support? Adoption
Father doesnt want anything to do with it and mother can afford it, then let him waive ALL rights.

Remember, once the child is born it is not part of the mothers bodily autonomy. Meaning, adoption

Meaning equalizing laws for protection of both sexes, if a woman can get an abortion without the sayso of the father(and rightfully so)
Then the father should be able to waive all rights and if the woman cant afford it, should be adoption time.

[pathora44]

i dunno what you talking about.. you seem to completely miss the point

Ya no I really haven't the vast majority of people who are pro-life are the same ones trying to take out all social programs. Tell me who are generally in need of social programs? Could it possibly be single mother's with unwanted or unprepared pregnancies who get an abortion if they could because they are either unable or unprepared to care for a child. Yet pro-life people want to force a child unto them where more then likely to pay for the ever rising cost of raising a child they would require aid in the form of social programs. So either the mothers have the child forced unto them or they give the child up to the state where the taxpayer is paying for them through adoptions or foster care. Yet again the vast majority of pro-life people want to cut social programs. So I ask pro life people which is it. Is the fetus this precious life that must be protected or is it a societal leech draining the hard earned money from hard earning tax payers?

[Craaazyyy]

Ya no I really haven't the vast majority of people who are pro-life are the same ones trying to take out all social programs. Tell me who are generally in need of social programs? Could it possibly be single mother's with unwanted or unprepared pregnancies who get an abortion if they could because they are either unable or unprepared to care for a child. Yet pro-life people want to force a child unto them where more then likely to pay for the ever rising cost of raising a child they would require aid in the form of social programs. So either the mothers have the child forced unto them or they give the child up to the state where the taxpayer is paying for them through adoptions or foster care. Yet again the vast majority of pro-life people want to cut social programs. So I ask pro life people which is it. Is the fetus this precious life that must be protected or is it a societal leech draining the hard earned money from hard earning tax payers?

who said im pro life?

as far as i know pro-lifers are completely against abortions of any kind

im saying that both a man and a woman should be able to decide whether the child should get aborted or not

[pathora44]

what about a well-being of a child that got aborted?

Easy there is no child because a fetus can't survive on it's own and isn't a life until it can live on it's own which is in the third trimester. Which hey you legally can't abort after that point.

[Garnier Fructis]

Every single time this topic comes up, the first few pages are filled with complete dumbassery about having less rights or some shit.

Guess what: society doesn't give a shit if you wanted the abortion. If that baby is born, someone needs to care for it. You are one of the two people who created that baby, and if you don't pay for it someone else must. That cost would get shifted to the rest of society through welfare.

"It's not fair." Too bad. Childbirth and pregnancy are fundamentally unequal. You cannot expect to have an "equal" right to your partner's body and their choice of whether or not to abort. At that point you're advocating for the right to be a deadbeat.

[Super Kami Dende]

Sex makes babies, if you aren't willing to risk the possibility of someone carrying your kid, don't do a sex on them.

That's some bullshit double standards. Since that is saying Men shouldn't be able to have Sex without always having a Risk of a Child, whilst Women get off Scotfree since they can choose to keep or abort.

[Moralgy]

who said im pro life?

as far as i know pro-lifers are completely against abortions of any kind

im saying that both a man and a woman should be able to decide whether the child should get aborted or not

I'll agree to this the moment a dude can take the fetus from the woman if she doesn't want to grow it in her body.

[Christan]

So your idea is to overcrowd the adoption system even more?

Orphans are hundreds of times less likely to be adopted out than a newborn, and the parents do have 9 months to discuss it, more than likely finding a loving couple who will also help with doctors bills.

[Garnier Fructis]

im saying that both a man and a woman should be able to decide whether the child should get aborted or not

When pregnancy happens outside of a woman's body, maybe. But giving you this right would mean giving up womens' right to bodily autonomy.

[Moralgy]

Orphans are hundreds of times less likely to be adopted out than a newborn, and the parents do have 9 months to discuss it, more than likely finding a loving couple who will also help with doctors bills.

That didn't address my question. So you want to overcrowd the adoption system even more by forcing women to incubate a human they didn't want to?

[Garnier Fructis]

That's some bullshit double standards. Since that is saying Men shouldn't be able to have Sex without always having a Risk of a Child, whilst Women get off Scotfree since they can choose to keep or abort.

It's not bullshit. Women get the right to decide not because of a double standard, but because their bodies are the ones that house the fetus. You are physically incapable of going through pregnancy, so why should you have the right to decide?

[pathora44]

Orphans are hundreds of times less likely to be adopted out than a newborn, and the parents do have 9 months to discuss it, more than likely finding a loving couple who will also help with doctors bills.

Oh ya this doesn't lead into ethical dilemmas like industries where you make women into human farms to grow babies for people willing to pay. Next step people can start selling their organs for money there could never be anything wrong with that.