Is it time for tiered content to return?

[xcitng]

Might not wanna use popularity spike as a valid argument, champ.

Might want to explain to me how steadly increasing from 0-12.4 million over 7 years without a single fall and quick rise is a spike, champ.

[lollerlaban]

Might want to explain to me how steadly increasing from 0-12.4 million over 7 years without a single fall and quick rise is a spike, champ.

7? You mean 5. It's a popularity spike because it kept gaining momentum due to new players. See, you're in this delusional phase where you think everyone and anyone bandwagon'd onto games asap back in 2008 so that games spiked immediately within a year.

Look at PUBG, it took them almost a year to hit their highest and that's with Twitch and a fuck ton of streamers along word of mouth.

So try harder, champ.

[HuxNeva]

Lol at people still getting worked up about LFR when it has absolutely zero relevance for them.

[Themanintobuildafire]

Might want to look at the sub numbers decline after WOTLK by more than half the player base after WOTLK designed raids champ.

https://imgur.com/a/04uhViU

There is a lot more to it than LFR.

Look at the graph. The game was new in 2005, it took time to build up a playerbase and get people playing. By WoTLK it was 5 years old already, and the game was "same old same old" formula. Cata is introduced and again, same old same old. A lot of people got bored and left.

Why the steady decline in players? I can think of a lot of things outside LFR. Each xp is the SAME THING in a different skin:

- Do xxx quests to go from x level to y level. (The same types of quests and we do it supposedly to learn the "lore" but the writing gets worse and more and more it is just a huge ass chore. It IS NOT fun. I think if Legion invasions didn't exist for leveling up alts, we'd have had A LOT more people quit in legion.
- Re-farm gear by doing raids. Gear resets happen, so all the effort you put in to make your character stronger, wasted. People argue this is what MMORPGs are...well actually player decline is showing that this ISN'T what people want to be doing. The audience is older and time is more precious.
- PVP has been in a state of fuck up almost every xpac since arenas came out...that is a long long time. Top level PVP is for fewer players than top level PVE is for...that really kills a large percentage of players. The amount of cheating that goes on with the top 1000 players is well known the world over...so why play this game if you are a serious pvper?
- Grind: it has gotten WORSE. RNG RNG and more RNG. How it fun?
- Changing classes/talents every xpac: if a class is good, LEAVE IT THE FUCK ALONE. Seriously this is one of the biggest reasons my friends have quit. Why the hell do they take away or break the awesome/fun shit about a class and put stuff that sucks? They know better? No fucking way.


The game is going to die if they don't change it so that effort equals something long term. They were onto something with artifact weapons but decided they needed to reinvent the wheel cause it was a new xpac. No, they really didn't. Many people would love to see things like paragon levels, so that your character actually gets powerful or bonus abilities rather than relying only on gear. AP 2.0 is boring as fuck and I don't know anyone who has bought into it. AP 2.0 with our artifacts would have at least seen something carry over an xpac - WHY can't gear do that? Seriously? I just don't get it. Could have been made so that 111 and you got a free artifact to catch up.

Anyways LFR isn't doing anything but holding people to the game who use that as a source of gear. I absolutely hate LFR, and I have no time for raiding. So what's holding me to the game? Good question, for a lot of people....

[Flarelaine]

yes, and its direct consequence for many i assure you.

picture this. a particular guy runs 3x the content of the next guy in his guild. is twice the player. yet has not only worse itemization, but a much lower ilvl.

rng is fun.

this particular guy is about to quit wow due to the aforementioned, and due to several of his closest friends quitting already.

And what does bad RNG have to do with LFR?

[xcitng]

7? You mean 5. It's a popularity spike because it kept gaining momentum due to new players. See, you're in this delusional phase where you think everyone and anyone bandwagon'd onto games asap back in 2008 so that games spiked immediately within a year.

Look at PUBG, it took them almost a year to hit their highest and that's with Twitch and a fuck ton of streamers along word of mouth.

So try harder, champ.

Don't need to try at all when the graph shows whats needed. Hope you are loving the amazing LFR filled 1.9mil sub game btw, only a casual 8million+ drop since raiding changed....

[tankbug]

With the rng/grind fest that is bfa do you think it might be time to return to tiered content? To the idea that there should be content of all difficulty levels rather then difficulty levels for all content?

I can only speak for myself but the excessive rng of bfa has left a craving in me for some good well balanced tiers. No wacky loot. No scaling difficulty. Just a expansion with a measured and gradual difficulty increase from start to finish.

What are your thoughts on it?

Impossible to balance. You have to either shit on hardcores or casuals. I am something in between, leaning towards casual, and I know I would be pissed if I missed out on important lore and content because it was locked behind a wall of raids.

[Maudib]

No.

A system with multiple difficulty options caters best to players of various skill levels and should remain in the game. The additional difficulty levels are among the best additions to the game ever.

If you just make a raid with 2 first bosses being easy, then 99% of the players won't see past those 2, rendering the content useless.

Let me translate:

"Everybody deserves to see the entire game, whether they play it or not. It doesn't matter if you are good at it or not, everyone should get the loot just because they log in. The mere paying of a sub fee entitles them to everything the game offers."

Of course the OP's suggestion would take us back to when the game drove up to 12 million players to keep playing... while the current development strategy of participation rewards is barely managing a couple million.

Brilliant!... let's keep the crap that WoW is today. </sarcasm>

The WoW Trinity was far superior.

[Tony Slam]

Cant do that. How else will Blizz cater to the lowest common denominator of the player base.

[Dusty tome]

Let me translate:

"Everybody deserves to see the entire game, whether they play it or not. It doesn't matter if you are good at it or not, everyone should get the loot just because they log in. The mere paying of a sub fee entitles them to everything the game offers."

Of course the OP's suggestion would take us back to when the game drove up to 12 million players to keep playing... while the current development strategy of participation rewards is barely managing a couple million.

Brilliant!... let's keep the crap that WoW is today. </sarcasm>

The WoW Trinity was far superior.

I don't know about trinity it was more twins for me. Still one day I dream of seeing a tbc system with new content. A man can dream.

[Tharkkun]

7? You mean 5. It's a popularity spike because it kept gaining momentum due to new players. See, you're in this delusional phase where you think everyone and anyone bandwagon'd onto games asap back in 2008 so that games spiked immediately within a year.

Look at PUBG, it took them almost a year to hit their highest and that's with Twitch and a fuck ton of streamers along word of mouth.

So try harder, champ.

That little spike of momentum you see just before Cataclysm came out is WOTLK being released in China. It was delayed for 2 years before being approved.

So then Cataclysm is launched and the US players returned. Then people started quitting shortly after having nothing to do in Cataclysm. Pretty much the same in WOD. Lots of raid content. Lack of anything else. It's also known that over 50% of the subs were in China at that time and Cata didn't appeal to them at all.

PUBG is dead btw. Took them less than 6 months after release to practically kill their game.

[Tharkkun]

It's better for everyone. It gives every single person but the best of the best of players to work towards constantly. You replaced a rpg with slot machine.

From a business standpoint it's a terrible idea. Why would Blizzard continue putting tons of development hours into content that less than 5% of the player base would experience? If it continued to be that way what we would've seen is smaller or even less raids and more outdoor/dungeon content instead.

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I dunno what they countered but a lot of realms are desert. auction lots number speaks well

Well we have shards of every zone now. Zones are no longer able to go over a certain cap of players before it's crz'd into a new shard. It makes some of the deserted zones feel more lively but it also makes the zones that used to be overpopulated feel less active.

[Dusty tome]

And who should raids cater to?

To raiders, you act like gutting 5 mans into instant clear 15mins or your money back is a positive. Give non raiders non raid content as shocking as that sounds. Just because every shape can be jammed into the square hole does mean they should be.

- - - Updated - - -

From a business standpoint it's a terrible idea. Why would Blizzard continue putting tons of development hours into content that less than 5% of the player base would experience? If it continued to be that way what we would've seen is smaller or even less raids and more outdoor/dungeon content instead.

- - - Updated - - -



Well we have shards of every zone now. Zones are no longer able to go over a certain cap of players before it's crz'd into a new shard. It makes some of the deserted zones feel more lively but it also makes the zones that used to be overpopulated feel less active.

Because it is the most successful model ever known? They are paid per subscriber not per pixel loaded.

[Alvito]

We haven't had tiered content since BC. I doubt raiding would survive going back to that sort of progress staggering.

[Dusty tome]

Are you happy with reused assets and 5 bosses per raid? And the main story told in the content you want to give to non raiders?

Well I can't really recall a tier with 5 bosses the awnser would be yes. Making meaningless empty content on mass isn't better then making quality content in smaller doses.

[Tharkkun]

To raiders, you act like gutting 5 mans into instant clear 15mins or your money back is a positive. Give non raiders non raid content as shocking as that sounds. Just because every shape can be jammed into the square hole does mean they should be.

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Because it is the most successful model ever known? They are paid per subscriber not per pixel loaded.

Actually it divides the player base. It was the top complaint at the end of TBC because raids were being created that were inaccessible to the 95% of the player base and players wanted to know where the content for them was? I've seen the raid scene alienate the player base in EQ, Daoc, Rift and Wildstar.

The entire success of the game was due to casual players. Not top end raiders. Without the casual portion of the game it never would've cracked a million like all the other MMO's before it. You can believe otherwise but history has proven that players will not step up to the challenge if the content is just too difficult.

[Dusty tome]

So you would like to get rid of massive raid content just for not having to share it with LFR players? Exclusivity in exchange for massive raids?

Do you actually play raids?

I cleared ten years of cutting edge highest difficutly content and yes I would trade what we have for proper progression .

- - - Updated - - -

Actually it divides the player base. It was the top complaint at the end of TBC because raids were being created that were inaccessible to the 95% of the player base and players wanted to know where the content for them was? I've seen the raid scene alienate the player base in EQ, Daoc, Rift and Wildstar.

The entire success of the game was due to casual players. Not top end raiders. Without the casual portion of the game it never would've cracked a million like all the other MMO's before it. You can believe otherwise but history has proven that players will not step up to the challenge if the content is just too difficult.

Right but seperate isn't the same as any... that is where we part ways. I saw things like za and magisters as sufficient. Content for every level not all content for every level.

[Shalaator]

Might want to look at the sub numbers decline after WOTLK by more than half the player base after WOTLK designed raids champ.

https://imgur.com/a/04uhViU

Might want to realize that WotLK was a freak expansion. People that never played WoW before only joined the game to see the end of the WC3 Frozen Throne storyline. After WotLK, those people quit the game, happy with the ending. They "beat" the game (in their own minds and opinions).

Only a Warcraft IV (which should be hastily made alongside this BFA expansion or even within WoW for chirst's sakes) can restore WoW subs to WotLK numbers.

[xcitng]

Might want to realize that WotLK was a freak expansion. People that never played WoW before only joined the game to see the end of the WC3 Frozen Throne storyline. After WotLK, those people quit the game, happy with the ending. They "beat" the game (in their own minds and opinions).

Only a Warcraft IV (which should be hastily made alongside this BFA expansion or even within WoW for chirst's sakes) can restore WoW subs to WotLK numbers.

Was over 10 mil before they even announced WOTLK, so the "freak" expansion only added 2.5.

[Shalaator]

Was over 10 mil before they even announced WOTLK, so the "freak" expansion only added 2.5.

'only added'

lawl


Geez guys, our expansion "only added" an additional 25% of our BC subscribers to the current count!?!

There's 84,000 seconds in a day.

Start counting to 2.5 million.