Why do people have a problem with titanforging?

[Aydinx2]

you guys believe that its doesn't work that way, in the meantime Blizz will keep taking your money. Because it does....
Also TF and stuff should just be seen a little perk or bonus.You guys are looking at it a wrong way. "Oh I'm mad someone got luckier than me!" but if it was you who got "luckier" ...well,. I'm sure most of you at least would be ok with that.

Get over it

You're really good at ignoring valid arguments and criticism, and especially skilled at taking a single complaint and making it seem unreasonable.
In a game that costs $15 a month and is supposed to reward players for playing, "Oh I'm mad someone got luckier than me!" is a 100% valid complaint.
And saying they would be ok with receiving the TF pieces is just the dumb cherry on the idiot cake. Ofcourse someone would be happy to get a good item, we're just not happy with the system and that we have to rely on RNG for the item to be good. We want to earn it, not get it as a handout.

[Sluvs]

1. And you will be punished by getting a worse version of the reward.
2. Doesn't matter how rare titanforging is. Not getting it means you're weaker/behind.
3. Untrue. Warfronts are easier and guaranteed to drop an item, besides the guaranteed 370 every week. I'm a Mythic+10 pusher and stopped pushing because spamming Warfronts was faster to upgrade. The best upgrade path is to do a single high keystone for the cache and spam warfronts.

A reward should be based on a mix of difficulty and time, not only time. Blizzard clearly doesn't operate on a time-based system because spamming normal dungeons isn't a possible alternative to Mythic +10. Yeah you should get a reward for doing warfronts, but the ilvl is too high compared to similar or even higher difficulty content.

1- But only if you feel entitled to the titanforged version, which you really should not.
2- But ofc it matters, if it happens once in a blue moon you will not feel cheated out of it.
3- Hmm I think I severely disagree with you here, I have been running warfronts non stop to get the transmog gear, and it took a full cycle + a couple of days to complete it in one character (just one set). Warfronts are a guaranteed drop, but not a guaranteed titanforged and they take 20-30 min to complete it. Doing a M+ is a lot more advantageous than doing a warfront, not mentioning that they can titanforge aswell.

I mean, for you to get a full warfront set, you have to do at least 10 warfronts, that is at least 3.5 hours without getting any repeated gear, which is pretty hard, close to impossible. Now you need to titanforge, not to mention it need to titanforge to a relevant level, which is even harder. I mean, it is theoretically possible that you farm for 3.5 hours and is completely raid ready, but that is not really what happens, if you truly want to have all decked out titanforged gear, you need to farm for waaaaay more than 3 hours. I mean, probably more than a whole say if we are going to be honest here. And this is where the argument falls apart for me.

I mean, it's so rare to titanforge to a high level, it's so unreliable and to gear solely through titanforging, that i honestly dont think it's a problem. I think it's a nice bonus when you get lucky.

[Aydinx2]

So you think it's better to do warfronts and hope for titanforged items than to do mythic plus?

I have already said multiple times that I do, and explained why.
In terms of pure "time to reward ratio", a Warfront has a much higher value than Mythic+.

[Gungnir]

you guys believe that its doesn't work that way, in the meantime Blizz will keep taking your money. Because it does....
Also TF and stuff should just be seen a little perk or bonus.You guys are looking at it a wrong way. "Oh I'm mad someone got luckier than me!" but if it was you who got "luckier" ...well,. I'm sure most of you at least would be ok with that.

Get over it

I don't like getting titanforged upgrades.
If I do a random WQ or a heroic dungeon to help a friend, and I get a titanforge that's higher than the Mythic gear I have on me then I'm genuinely just disgusted.
Granted I come from an era where RPG's had an actual set progression system and was a lot more rewarding.

Getting "rewarded" for doing nothing feels terrible. You haven't earned it in any way, you can't replicate earning it in any way, it just randomly happens.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

I don't like getting titanforged upgrades.
If I do a random WQ or a heroic dungeon to help a friend, and I get a titanforge that's higher than the Mythic gear I have on me then I'm genuinely just disgusted.
Granted I come from an era where RPG's had an actual set progression system and was a lot more rewarding.

Getting "rewarded" for doing nothing feels terrible. You haven't earned it in any way, you can't replicate earning it in any way, it just randomly happens.

I get the idea that getting an upgrade for lesser content feels weird.

BUT at the same time you're not "rewarded for doing nothing." You are investing time, and getting rewarded an upgrade. And Blizz feels time is enough of an investment on its own these days (again, a direct result of how most long-time players are now holding down full time jobs rather than students).

[Thelxi]

People keep saying it's bad but I don't get why it is. I like it when I get a good upgrade.

Well then WoW is the game for you.

[Azpas]

you guys believe that its doesn't work that way, in the meantime Blizz will keep taking your money. Because it does....
Also TF and stuff should just be seen a little perk or bonus.You guys are looking at it a wrong way. "Oh I'm mad someone got luckier than me!" but if it was you who got "luckier" ...well,. I'm sure most of you at least would be ok with that.

Get over it

But why does it feels like this is a thing of top tier gear? That's why everybody is talking and complaining about it. Is not that we are looking it in a wrong way, is just that this never have to be a thing. If the loot system was without any bonus or upgrade system in which involves RNG the community will be more happy than is it right now.

[Naked Snake]

I have already said multiple times that I do, and explained why.
In terms of pure "time to reward ratio", a Warfront has a much higher value than Mythic+.

How? It's baseline 340 and the chance for it to titanforge is rather low. Mythic plus gives increasingly better rewards the higher you go, they too can titanforge, I assume with the same chance warfront epics can. Yes, you might be unlucky in mythic plus for a while, but I did two mythics and got 3 epics each time. I'm sure I was really lucky, but you'd have to be really unlucky to get nothing for several runs and then there's still bad luck protection. I really don't see how warfronts would be better.

[Gungnir]

I get the idea that getting an upgrade for lesser content feels weird.

BUT at the same time you're not "rewarded for doing nothing." You are investing time, and getting rewarded an upgrade. And Blizz feels time is enough of an investment on its own these days (again, a direct result of how most long-time players are now holding down full time jobs rather than students).

I invest hours upon hours progressing in Mythic.
I get a higher item level reward from spending 2 minutes blasting through a HC dungeon with a friend.

That is not investment, in any way. It literally takes no attention and effort, and it "rewards" me better than the hardest difficulty in the game.
That is not a healthy progression system, it shouldn't work like that.

[Naked Snake]

I don't like getting titanforged upgrades.
If I do a random WQ or a heroic dungeon to help a friend, and I get a titanforge that's higher than the Mythic gear I have on me then I'm genuinely just disgusted

Sounds like you have mental issues.

[GenesisZero]

What does it mean, you haven't earned it? Who decides that?

Do you understand the concept of Difficulty to Reward? To be absolutely clear, the concept and not your personal experience.

From what I read of you, these are true statements -
- You should not aim for true BiS.
- You don't raid anything other than LFR because you cba to find groups.
- You like it when you get an upgrade.

Just on these things you've said right here you are -
- Devaluing effort/difficultly of higher level raiding (anything beyond LFR)
- Like having an upgrade regardless of that above fact and the Reward that the Difficulty should bestow.
- Telling people to ignore TF in regards to BiS, basicly ignoring what BiS means.

You yourself are throwing Difficulty to Reward out of the window because it suits you. That is an entitled position. My position (and likely others) is that you are devaluing effort, and the skill required to beat the difficulty regardless of how far above LFR just to suit your personal preference for the game. If the effort is ultimately and conceptually pointless then what is the point of anything in the game past its lowest common denominator? Why disincentivize players away from bothering to progress, why has gear progress decoupled from play and skill progress?

That is the core fundamental of progress, you PROGRESS. You don't run on the spot till you hard out-gear it just because the game bestowed you with enough lucky to have however many WF/TF pieces you got.

There was literally nothing wrong with how the game used to be. The worse we had to deal with was an string of unlucky weeks. You knew what you want, where it was and what you needed to do to get it. A massive difference from that compared to what it is now (Could be anywhere, with X ilvl, Socket AND tri stat).

Another way you could look at it is an equivalent exchange, and I will use the good ol nugget example.

Person A buys 6 McNuggets. Person B also buys 6 McNuggets. The exchange is the money (or effort) and the reward is the McNuggets. They both earned that amount but Person B gets his McForge luck to kick in and gets 18 McNuggets. For literally no reason Person A is now for the same cost has less McNuggets. See how the CONCEPT, not the practical application applies here. It doesn't matter how realistic that is, its either frustrating because you know it didn't happen or frustrating because it didn't happen for you.

[Yatagarasu]

Back in the day you get a drop (weapon for example) and you get so excited, you finally got the weapon you wanted and there is almost no weapon better in the game atm (depending on raid difficulty). Now you don't get excited, why? Because you immediately think: "Ah, it could have been forged/socketed...". Bliz has turned this excitement into dissapointment. Also it's extremely petty that an LFR zombie can get titan forged procs to match mythic raiders level, which is ridiculous.

[Aydinx2]

1- But only if you feel entitled to the titanforged version, which you really should not.
2- But ofc it matters, if it happens once in a blue moon you will not feel cheated out of it.
3- Hmm I think I severely disagree with you here, I have been running warfronts non stop to get the transmog gear, and it took a full cycle + a couple of days to complete it in one character (just one set). Warfronts are a guaranteed drop, but not a guaranteed titanforged and they take 20-30 min to complete it. Doing a M+ is a lot more advantageous than doing a warfront, not mentioning that they can titanforge aswell.

I mean, for you to get a full warfront set, you have to do at least 10 warfronts, that is at least 3.5 hours without getting any repeated gear, which is pretty hard, close to impossible. Now you need to titanforge, not to mention it need to titanforge to a relevant level, which is even harder. I mean, it is theoretically possible that you farm for 3.5 hours and is completely raid ready, but that is not really what happens, if you truly want to have all decked out titanforged gear, you need to farm for waaaaay more than 3 hours. I mean, probably more than a whole say if we are going to be honest here. And this is where the argument falls apart for me.

I mean, it's so rare to titanforge to a high level, it's so unreliable and to gear solely through titanforging, that i honestly dont think it's a problem. I think it's a nice bonus when you get lucky.

1. Why not? I am entitled to that gear. I've paid $60 and am paying $15 a month, did the content multiple times and for some reason I'm not entitled to that reward? Why? Do you have an actual good reason why I shouldn't receive that gear besides "the dice simply didn't roll good for you"?
2. Yet clearly enough people do to actively complain about it on multiple platforms.
3. No way, Warfronts are much more efficient when it comes to gearing. No dealing with affixes, timers, group-making, and it's much easier. If your group is geared to the point where you're easily clearing M+7, you're already ready to go into raiding content anyways, and getting to that point is easier through Warfronts.

Ocourse the issue with that tactic is that Warfronts aren't always available. Luckily they are up long enough to gear all my alts to raid status.

[Deleted]

simply because I could run lfr. my 3 year old sons could run lfr at the same time.

I have played to an average standard cutting edges etc. I go into raid finder my trinket drops at base ilvl my sons who doesn't play drops at max titan forge that even I cant achive in raids without an ounce of luck.... luck isn't fair luck is luck.

[lollermittens]

This post is illuminating: this guy came in and asked fundamental questions about why those bitching about WF/TF are bitching about it and nobody could give a precise answer.

Why is that? Because if you dislike WF/TF, it's a subjective issue. WF/TF gives you a chance at increasing the iLvl of an item. That's it. There are no inherent philosophical implications behind it and all of those who've tried to put a psychological slant on the issue look ridiculous.

Moreover, if you dislike WF/TF, you're a fucking hypocrite because when you actually get lucky and get a 385 iLvl item from a +10, I'm sure you're the guy (or gal) who'll cynically bitch on discord about how "random, stupid, unrewarding" the loot system is, but deep inside, you're giggling like a schoolgirl because you just found a BiS that'll significantly boost your character.

Also, the reason why no one was able to define the term "item inflation:" because it makes no sense. Inflation is when the inherent value of money starts diminishing the more currency you print. TF'ing a 370 item in a 385 is an extremely rare occurrence and has nothing to with inflation.

To be honest, those who don't like TF/WF are butthurt that there simply isn't easier access or consistency to TF/WF an item. That's it.

Oh and, as usual, those who dislike the item will typically shit on those who get lucky in LFR or WQs and score a lucky item. Because, you know, filthy casuals aren't allowed to have fun and ever surpass those who no-life this casual, easy, accessible, on-rails MMOARPG.

[Gungnir]

Sounds like you have mental issues.

Not only is that factually incorrect, it's also incredibly thoughtless and insulting.
Just because you enjoy not having to put any effort and time into things to receive the best rewards, doesn't mean that everyone else feels the same way as you do.

You seem completely unable to understand why people even dislike the system, so I don't even see the point as to why you've made this thread in the first place, unless it's some sort of thinly veiled troll attempt.
You just keep arguing with people, bringing up anecdotal evidence and completely disregarding any other argument at all as either mental issues or others being incorrect.

Please grow up before you make another thread like this.

[Aydinx2]

Sounds like you have mental issues.

Sounds like you do, considering you can't understand another persons viewpoint even if they have explained it to you multiple times.

- - - Updated - - -

Not only is that factually incorrect, it's also incredibly thoughtless and insulting.
Just because you enjoy not having to put any effort and time into things to receive the best rewards, doesn't mean that everyone else feels the same way as you do.

You seem completely unable to understand why people even dislike the system, so I don't even see the point as to why you've made this thread in the first place, unless it's some sort of thinly veiled troll attempt.
You just keep arguing with people, bringing up anecdotal evidence and completely disregarding any other argument at all as either mental issues or others being incorrect.

Please grow up before you make another thread like this.

You put it much better than I could.

- - - Updated - - -

This post is illuminating: this guy came in and asked fundamental questions about why those bitching about WF/TF are bitching about it and nobody could give a precise answer.

Actually many people gave very precise answers.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

Back in the day you get a drop (weapon for example) and you get so excited, you finally got the weapon you wanted and there is almost no weapon better in the game atm (depending on raid difficulty). Now you don't get excited, why? Because you immediately think: "Ah, it could have been forged/socketed...". Bliz has turned this excitement into dissapointment. Also it's extremely petty that an LFR zombie can get titan forged procs to match mythic raiders level, which is ridiculous.

I mean that system is long gone.

Sure now it's "it could have ___." But in BC-MoP it was "I have to take it to my jeweler friend to get socketed, then I have to find a blacksmith to install an extra slot, then I have to install a gem there, then I have to take it to get enchanted, then I have to take it to the reforger and have my addon crunch and re-reforge all my gear."

We haven't had PURE "Get iLevel, equip iLevel" since Classic.

[slalmon]

Sigh... please learn the basic mechanics of the game before opening your mouth to show the entire world what an idiot you are....

LOL ok, I am pretty sure I know raid tiers work, it ain't that complicated. Don't dog on me just because you couldn't be clear in what you were talking about

[Aydinx2]

Sure now it's "it could have ___." But in BC-MoP it was "I have to take it to my jeweler friend to get socketed, then I have to find a blacksmith to install an extra slot, then I have to install a gem there, then I have to take it to get enchanted, then I have to take it to the reforger and have my addon crunch and re-reforge all my gear."

Besides that addon-crunch part, that sounds like fun. Getting a reward and then going to socialise with other players to improve it further.
It sounds like a fun game.

I do agree the reforging wasn't a very good system, but it did give more power/options to players (even if they did always go for the cookie cutter stats).