Varimathras quotes revisit - Relevant in BfA?!

[vertigo12]

I just elaborated what you meant, that's all. Then you said what I said have zero bearing on yours so....

[Deleted]

I think he simply knew her to be a scheming person.

The alliance betrayal was Saurfang attacking Malfurion without honor/from behind. The rest is the Darnassus/Darkshore stuff.

The horde one is that she likely put herself forcibly in the warchief position with the help of another agent of death.

I guess it may be a plan long in the making and he was aware of part of it.

[vertigo12]

I think he simply knew her to be a scheming person.

The alliance betrayal was Saurfang attacking Malfurion without honor/from behind. The rest is the Darnassus/Darkshore stuff.

The horde one is that she likely put herself forcibly in the warchief position with the help of another agent of death.

I guess it may be a plan long in the making and he was aware of part of it.

Saurfang and Malf aren't even homies and you call that betrayal?

[Felixon]

So, your Alliance still endures. Longer than I expected, though she has already planted the seeds of its downfall. She is patient, that one.
When your thrones run red with betrayal... when your holy places burn and the shattered mask hangs above your hearth... only then you will know. And it will be too late.
It matters not. You are blind to the true darkness closing in around you.

Is tha seed she planted Saurfang? Could it be that like I have speculated on my other thread, Saurfang is playinf charades and acting as a double agent and even old soldiers can learn new tricks?

And it seems the continuation related to Vol'jin has some connection with his line when Horde encounters him:


So, she found me at last. Sent her underlings to finish the job.
Tell me, when she seized your throne of hides and bones, was your allegiance forced? No... I'd wager you surrendered it willingly... or were convinced you did.
It matters not. You are blind to the darkness in your midst.

From the looks of it, he knew something all along!

In both of the quotes he speaks about Sylvanas.

In the Alliance version - Sylvanas's plan to divide the Alliance and then take out it's races one by one.
In the Horde version - well,it's obvious her,he is talking about her as a warchief.

[Deleted]

Saurfang and Malf aren't even homies and you call that betrayal?

Yes. It was a disonorable blow. He says it himself. A blow from behind he did not deserve. It was a betrayal of honor.
The throne of the nelves ran red with blood from that betrayal. It fits perfectly. He nearly died.

If you prefer, it was the horde betraying honor after the siege of Orgrimmar "armestiece".

I'm 100% sure that is what the quote is refering to.

[Sin Cara]

I am starting to think Mal'Ganis may have had a hand in making Sylvanas warchief. Even if he didn't, I think we will see him at some point during this expansion.

[vertigo12]

I am starting to think Mal'Ganis may have had a hand in making Sylvanas warchief. Even if he didn't, I think we will see him at some point during this expansion.

He wasn't bested yet iIcr in the citadel dungeon. We will see. But I believe someone pulling the strings must be atleast 1 step lower than a Pantheon Titan as using a Void Lord or old god would prematurely end a several seasons worth of story telling.

[tikcol]

People expecting forshadowing in wows lore lol. Best joke

[vertigo12]

In both of the quotes he speaks about Sylvanas.

In the Alliance version - Sylvanas's plan to divide the Alliance and then take out it's races one by one.
In the Horde version - well,it's obvious her,he is talking about her as a warchief.

This is what I thought. After reviewing the two novellas related to BfA it becames clear his quote was hinting about it. I'm not sure if he is someway related to the outcome of events or even with his Nathrezim brethren.

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People expecting forshadowing in wows lore lol. Best joke

I heard about a 6 expansion worth of story being planned behind the scene and I'm not sure if what Blizz is talking about would be MoP-WoD-Legion-BfA-???-??? So that's about 2 3 chaptered story blocks per every expac.

First half would be MoP-WoD-Legion (End of Burning Legion Story Block)
BfA- 2 expac connected to BfA. Something similar to Star Wars Trilogy.

[tikcol]

This is what I thought. After reviewing the two novellas related to BfA it becames clear his quote was hinting about it. I'm not sure if he is someway related to the outcome of events or even with his Nathrezim brethren.

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I heard about a 6 expansion worth of story being planned behind the scene and I'm not sure if what Blizz is talking about would be MoP-WoD-Legion-BfA-???-??? So that's about 2 3 chaptered story blocks per every expac.

First half would be MoP-WoD-Legion (End of Burning Legion Story Block)
BfA- 2 expacts connected to BfA. Something similar to Star Wars Trilogy.

You believe that and don't question the shit pile of retcons they do to lore? Best planning ever when you have to constantly go back and make sense of present events by fixing previous lore. Lol

[vertigo12]

You believe that and don't question the shit pile of retcons they do to lore? Best planning ever when you have to constantly go back and make sense of present events by fixing previous lore. Lol

From the looks of it there is indeed a flow of story now compared to the previous 3- BC,WotLK & Cata.
Somehow Cataclysm was the catalyst for the non-Draenor centric expac & events.

- MoP mistifying spell removed from Pandaria.
- Suramar shield powered down as 3rd Legion invasion happened.
- Kul'tiras moved closer to Maelstrom and Zandalar is now an island smaller that it used to be pre-Cata.

[Ehrenpanzer]

Banking on Sylvanas for the horde one and changing the alliance one from Jaina to Alleria. Lines up with his line talking about "the true darkness" and the other line about "at the hour of her third death" being heavily implied to be Sylvanas or Alleria.

Except that Sylvanas has already died 3 times, and Alleria (to my knowledge) hasnt even died once, unless you count her metaphorical whining...

[Foolicious]

I love it when new speculation theories pop up after some youtuber made a video about it =p

[Selinde]

It's pretty obvious at this point that they have been telling a long story over the last expansions. They're no longer just coming to the resolution of past WoW lore, they're building up future lore and shaping future villains and heroes right now. I think both Varimathras' quotes and Il'gynoth's whispers were meant to make sense after Legion, probably in BfA.

[Powerogue]

Except that Sylvanas has already died 3 times, and Alleria (to my knowledge) hasnt even died once, unless you count her metaphorical whining...

Well the metaphorical whining sounds like it was written specifically to fulfill that prophecy, so that's why I'm counting on it. (would be hilarious if this turned out to be an "isn't Falstad dead?" moment and they totally forgot Sylvanas died once in the books and were like "DAMN IT, now we need to rewrite this")

[Dravec]

ITT: Alliance afraid that Sylvanas will win BfA. (which has been hinted at several times now even by developers in interviews)

Must be some massive plot armor or everyone on the Alliance becomes full blown retarded, considering she’s lost 90% of her battles/wars...

[Vladier]

Well the metaphorical whining sounds like it was written specifically to fulfill that prophecy, so that's why I'm counting on it. (would be hilarious if this turned out to be an "isn't Falstad dead?" moment and they totally forgot Sylvanas died once in the books and were like "DAMN IT, now we need to rewrite this")

They could just say that Sylvanas' three deaths don't include her original death, as Elf Sylvanas and Banshee Sylvanas count as different people.

[Deleted]

They could just say that Sylvanas' three deaths don't include her original death, as Elf Sylvanas and Banshee Sylvanas count as different people.

I will always argue that this part of the prophetic whispers is not referencing Sylvanas and that her becoming a banshee was absolutely her 'First' death. By definition, a banshee is something that is non-living, as in dead, which means when Sylvanas went from being a living elf into a banshee she went from being alive to being dead - ergo, her first death. Furthermore, if you read Lor'themar's dialogue on the PTR on Heritage Armor quest, he specifically refers to her fall as paying "the ultimate price" - a definitive phrase that has only ever referenced death.

I would argue that Alleria is far more likely to be the one the prophecy is referring to. After all, Alleria is in direct contact with the Void, which is in direct contact with her and therefore her thoughts, and as we know Il'gynoth is Void-aligned, and as we also have been told the Void does not specifically lie. As such, when he/it says about "her third death" it would not be lying about Alleria but merely refelecting her own thoughts which, for all intents and purposes, is the truth. The key thought it is referencing to is the time that Alleria specifically says "Sometimes I feel that I have already died twice. Once when we were presumed lost on Draenor, and again when gripped by the shadow of the fallen naaru" In other words, if Alleria feels like she has died twice, and ergo the Void and it's aligned entities also know this, it makes perfect sense for it to refer to her with something as specific as a "third death". Let us also consider that the prophecy refers to this third death as being the key to "usher in our coming" and we know that Alleria is a unique being in the sense that she is the first to resist their whispers after wholly absorbing a Void entities. By resisting them she is putting up a barrier, a wall of sorts that the Void has not encountered before. It would make sense then that somebody who is resisting their powers is therefore preventing them from coming to Azeroth and thus, with her death (i.e. when she succumbs to the whispers and dies), that wall is broken down, and they are free to do...whatever.

Yeah it's all speculation and slightly Off Topic, but if we are talking likely candidates for these prophecies, with regards to "Her Third Death" my bet is definitely on Alleria.

[vertigo12]

I will always argue that this part of the prophetic whispers is not referencing Sylvanas and that her becoming a banshee was absolutely her 'First' death. By definition, a banshee is something that is non-living, as in dead, which means when Sylvanas went from being a living elf into a banshee she went from being alive to being dead - ergo, her first death. Furthermore, if you read Lor'themar's dialogue on the PTR on Heritage Armor quest, he specifically refers to her fall as paying "the ultimate price" - a definitive phrase that has only ever referenced death.

I would argue that Alleria is far more likely to be the one the prophecy is referring to. After all, Alleria is in direct contact with the Void, which is in direct contact with her and therefore her thoughts, and as we know Il'gynoth is Void-aligned, and as we also have been told the Void does not specifically lie. As such, when he/it says about "her third death" it would not be lying about Alleria but merely refelecting her own thoughts which, for all intents and purposes, is the truth. The key thought it is referencing to is the time that Alleria specifically says "Sometimes I feel that I have already died twice. Once when we were presumed lost on Draenor, and again when gripped by the shadow of the fallen naaru" In other words, if Alleria feels like she has died twice, and ergo the Void and it's aligned entities also know this, it makes perfect sense for it to refer to her with something as specific as a "third death". Let us also consider that the prophecy refers to this third death as being the key to "usher in our coming" and we know that Alleria is a unique being in the sense that she is the first to resist their whispers after wholly absorbing a Void entities. By resisting them she is putting up a barrier, a wall of sorts that the Void has not encountered before. It would make sense then that somebody who is resisting their powers is therefore preventing them from coming to Azeroth and thus, with her death (i.e. when she succumbs to the whispers and dies), that wall is broken down, and they are free to do...whatever.

Yeah it's all speculation and slightly Off Topic, but if we are talking likely candidates for these prophecies, with regards to "Her Third Death" my bet is definitely on Alleria.

However if you try to connect Ilg's quote about a third death with Varimathras quote with point of reference on Alleria, there is a disjunction and disconnect feeling of sense and logic.

Usually the 3rd death speculations points at Azeroth as a planrt with connection with the last event called Sundering or some sort. And there is Sylvanas.

[Deleted]

However if you try to connect Ilg's quote about a third death with Varimathras quote with point of reference on Alleria, there is a disjunction and disconnect feeling of sense and logic.

Usually the 3rd death speculations points at Azeroth as a planrt with connection with the last event called Sundering or some sort. And there is Sylvanas.

Like I have already explained though, Sylvanas has already died 3 times so she does not fit the pattern either. What's probably happening is Blizzard is outright trolling us and are actually referring to somebody else entirely we haven't seen for freaking ice ages and then say "Hah, you all forgot about her didn't you!" Just you wait lol