Seems to be a lot of people here who don't remember past xpacs....

[Deleted]

...Who don't seem to remember that almost every xpac in the past had large numbers of people complaining and threatening to unsub. Legion was very much the exception, not the rule.

Cue large numbers of people saying "BUT IT'S DIFFERENT THIS TIME!"-people said that in the past too.

I do wonder about the motives of some of these people criticizing wow. You have people like Heelsvsbabyface who bitched all the way through wod, left during Legion and now comes back so he can start bitching about BFA. Hate sells, apparently. What a great way to make living-complaining about a game that pays your wages. The same with Asmongold-complained on youtube all the way through WOD and left youtube altogether during Legion and just did twitch-now people start complaining about BFA he's back with a new video! Yeah we all know you "just have the interests of the game at heart"-you aren't just monetizing hate.

There are some issues affecting Legion but they are mostly affecting a relatively small group of elitist raiders who aren't representative of the community as a whole, who are mainly annoyed that other people who won't get boosted by their fans can have the same gear as them. They are the ultimate special snowflakes. The silent majority are enjoying many aspects that BFA got right-PVP is noticeably better this expansion, world pvp is probably better than it ever has been.

And no subs are not down. Blizzard don't publish sub numbers any more but you can get a reasonably accurate approximation by just watching the numbers in populated zones relative to a few months ago. Or you could use google trends (wow searches are a remarkably accurate, statistically significant approximation of current subs) you just see the expected small dip you get after an xpac launches. Nothing dramatic.

[Powerogue]

I still remember when world pvp, and by consequence the entire game, died in BC when flying mounts were implemented. January 2007.

[Lochton]

I still remember when world pvp, and by consequence the entire game, died in BC when flying mounts were implemented. January 2007.

WoW has been announced dying every single damn expansion.

[Deleted]

WoW has been announced dying every single damn expansion.

To be fair to powerogue world pvp almost literally died during that xpac. On most realms you just never saw large-scale world pvp afterwards unless you did the "For the (faction0" achievement-and then only in SW or Orgrimmar, the other cities are deserted.

This is what I love about BFA-I can join a premade group and go anywhere in KT or Zandalar and do world pvp all day, and actually get some rewards for it. There is something to actually do in world other than trivial pve.

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Your reasons for why the subs are not down are ridiculous, too, honestly.

Google "population sampling". You can get highly accurate projections based on small samples.

[Zequill]

Legion was an exception? Lol, do you remember the first 3 months of Legendary. We had people unsub because they didn't got their BIS on the first drop or because they were playing 4 specs and they got a spec specific. They were people deleting their main to start anew because supposedly you had more chance of getting the first 3-4. So if you didn't got the 4 legendary you needed to not get bench by your mythic guild, delete and start over.

So yeah, people going crazy about tiny aspect of the game are not new. It did calm down after 1 or 2 patchs, not sure if the game got better or the anti-shill kept their money to came back in force for this xpac.

[Aeula]

Unified hatred of this magnitude has only ever been seen during Cata and WoD. It might not be 'different' but it sure as hell doesn't mean the game's in a good state.

[Lochton]

The game was "dead" before it even left beta.

Eh, don't recall that one. Then again, doomsayers are a dime a dozen.

[Azure653]

And no subs are not down.

Lol x10 chars

[Lochton]

To be fair to powerogue world pvp almost literally died during that xpac. On most realms you just never saw large-scale world pvp afterwards unless you did the "For the (faction0" achievement-and then only in SW or Orgrimmar, the other cities are deserted.

This is what I love about BFA-I can join a premade group and go anywhere in KT or Zandalar and do world pvp all day, and actually get some rewards for it. There is something to actually do in world other than trivial pve.

It was alive in The Burning Crusade on my RP server at least. Haha.

[Deleted]

Unified hatred of this magnitude has only ever been seen during Cata and WoD. It might not be 'different' but it sure as hell doesn't mean the game's in a good state.

Purrleaze...you did not remember the shitstorm about the pandas.

[Deleted]

I still remember when world pvp, and by consequence the entire game, died in BC when flying mounts were implemented. January 2007.

Incorrect, there was plenty of world pvp even when flying was a thing. There was always people invading cities, fighting outside Stormwind and Org, down at Tarren Mill and Southshore, I remember it well. It stopped in Wrath.

Reasons? I think it's partly because the game was by that time spread out over 3 places, EK and Kali, Outland and then Northrend. There was the pvp area in Wrath but that was about it. Nobody had any reason to go and invade cities any more, the Lich Babies didn't jump into PvP and had no idea what wPvP was like in the past.

There is simple ways to get wPvP going again, and it isn't with this shitty Warmode. The city invasions happened because the new achievement system gave people a reason to do something, all they have to do is bring in more wPvP achievements with some awesome rewards. Add mount drops to faction leaders, that'll get the invasions going again. Give players increasing rewards for how long they can take over an enemy auction house or bank. Put out better rewards for wPvP in old and new zones, random flashpoints that have the chance to give you some loot you cannot gain anywhere else, it could be anything as long as it's not shitty battle pets.

People need a reason these days to do wPvP, such is the attitude of the modern community, they won't do anything unless there's something in it for them. In the past it was for fun, now it's all "I want I want I want". Give them something to aim for and wPvP will be reborn.

[Vampyrr]

I still remember when world pvp, and by consequence the entire game, died in BC when flying mounts were implemented. January 2007.

What the hell are you talking about? Halaa, which was in BC mind you, had some of the most fun pvp zerg fests I've had in WoW. Full on 40+ v 40+ battles that would go on for hours. Unless you are talking about random gankfests but I dont consider that pvp.

[GreenJesus]

Lol another post complaining about complainers...

[Hadriker]

The death of WoW has been imminent since the release of TBC if forum posts are to be believed. yet somehow the game soldiers on and is still the most popular MMO out there. It may not be as popular as it was in its heyday, but its still not anywhere near dying.

[Aeula]

Purrleaze...you did not remember the shitstorm about the pandas.

The hate disappeared within a few days of launch. A few months later (Once the catch up for daily quests was implemented) most people playing viewed the expansion positively. BfA in the same time period is being shat on from all corners, and rightly so.

[ryanmahaffe]

Right but I didn't see dozens of muilti page "I quit posts" with tons of people posting they also unsubbed since WoD, I haven't seen this level of negativity since WoD, I haven't seen a rapid drop of interest across multiple sites and external factors since... well I didn't check in WoD because they gave out sub numbers but I will say Legion certainly didn't have this problem.

This deflection based argument of "oh people complain every expansion" needs to stop. Legion also didn't have multiple stay subbed or come back promotions this early on.

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The hate disappeared within a few days of launch. A few months later (Once the catch up for daily quests was implemented) most people playing viewed the expansion positively. BfA in the same time period is being shat on from all corners, and rightly so.

While I disagree with you on Legion, this is such an obvious thing people use. THey see negativity every expansion and then assume every expansion gets the same amount of negativity. It's an argument made by people who can't actually defend the horrible design of the game itself. Up there with "Just unsub and never look back lul I am having a good time "

[Aeula]

While I disagree with you on Legion, this is such an obvious thing people use. THey see negativity every expansion and then assume every expansion gets the same amount of negativity. It's an argument made by people who can't actually defend the horrible design of the game itself. Up there with "Just unsub and never look back lul I am having a good time "

I fucking despise Legion, but even I can see that I'm a minority in regards to that. Legion was positively received overall.

[prwraith]

I still remember when world pvp, and by consequence the entire game, died in BC when flying mounts were implemented. January 2007.

Yea sure.

Prime example here everyone. Of perception =/= reality.

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Unified hatred of this magnitude has only ever been seen during Cata and WoD. It might not be 'different' but it sure as hell doesn't mean the game's in a good state.

This is another one where I can agree on WoD being a steaming pile of shite.

But I enjoyed the hell out of Cata

[Aeula]

This is another one where I can agree on WoD being a steaming pile of shite.

But I enjoyed the hell out of Cata

You might have, many others didn't though.

[Phookah]

Yea sure.

Prime example here everyone. Of perception =/= reality.

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This is another one where I can agree on WoD being a steaming pile of shite.

But I enjoyed the hell out of Cata

It was clearly sarcastic hyperbole in response to the OP.