Uldir is one of the worst raids that this game has seen so far.

[Spike`]

uldir is boring visual wise and the most part of the fights are not really engaging mechanical wise so i agree that is one of the worst and i even liked somewhat TOC! so you can see the low bar than Uldir is to me

well since i play this game and i always were a raider and this was the first time that i stopped raiding middle raid progress

next one dont know yet but seeing that is using the pyramid and i'm Horde is way disappointing , its hard to find a horde player that isn't sick of that pyramid already

we will see, for now trying to maintain some m+ vibe but if blizzard dont start to really work on their game and give all type of players some good gameplay reply value i and probably many more will stop playing in 8.1-8.1.5 range

[shaunika123]

Hotfix (2011-01-18): " [Rip] and [Bane of Doom] damage is no longer affected by the damage increase of Stolen Power when engaging Nefarian."

Yeah it was.

And that's my last reply, because you do not see the obvious problem, which i guess has something to do with you wanting to play sub.

wait, so they hotfixed it for ferals and not for sub rogues when they coudl do the exact same thing?

wat...

that's somehow worse

[Titan Grasp]

I didn't care for the last 2 bosses myself and add wave fights are never that engaging.

[Seramore]

I mean we'd be blessed if you stopped talking entirely because your opinions are terrible.

Seriously anyone who basically says EN and Nighthold are on the same level should be outright ignored.

Imagine attempting to completely invalidate what somebody says because they said EN and NH were good raids.

[McNeil]

I’m not a fan of them overusing the circular center that divides into seperate one boss wings, then ending up in the middle, down in the ground then a little bit further down in the ground. It just feels lazy raid design where almost everything looks the same, they don’t even use new music and just rehash Nazmir and bits of Ulduar for most part. I also don’t like that there is no build up for Alliance to visit the place at all. They are basically cleaning up the Horde’s mess, considering that Rastakhan left the blood trolls unchecked for so long.

I wouldn’t consider it a bad raid but it isn’t anythng special either. It just feels kinda lazy, other than G’huun who has an awesome model they mostly just rehash all the other models. They rehash the same titan facility theme that they already did so many times. I’d say Emerald Nightmare had a much better theme, but the raid also felt very lackluster with all the reddish stuff and portals to small areas.

[Marrilaife]

Imagine attempting to completely invalidate what somebody says because they said EN and NH were good raids.

What was even wrong with EN except "Xavius was way too easy"? I mean the remaining bosses were decent, I'd add one more exception is the stupid oversight that allowed Ilgynoth to be 1-phased and was hotfixed post 1st kill, generally "post 1st kill hotfixes" means you're using top guilds as your unpaid testers, but tbh that's the Blizzard's quality we have to live with, bosses that had to be hotfixed shortly after going live have a long list since then: Odyn, Helya, Star Augur, Elisande, Mistress Saszine, Fallen Avatar, Kiljaeden, Varimathras, Argus, Mother, Fetid... All of these weren't "nerf months later to make boss easier" but rather "nerfs to fix blatant bugs, broken mechanics or extra cheese strats".

Emerald Nightmare also suffered from "same-ish visuals on every boss" but so did Firelands and people claim it was a good raid.

Emerald Nightmare also existed in the world where dps specs had massive imbalance swings due to access / lack of access to top legendaries between different players, yet much fewer classes / specs were perma bench material (only dk / shamans afaik as compared to Uldir where it's shamans of all 3 specs, shadow, feral, ret). Also while warrior tank was OP, it got swiftly nerfed, while so far no brewmaster nerf in sight despite as someone gracefully said on wowhead "I could play with 1 hand only press ironskin and keg smash and still tank mythic ok", and he's probably and unfortunately right.

How can you bitch about RNG and then make a statement like “ every raid in WoD was good”?

Tbh HFC was also suffering from melee unfriendly syndrome, too many fights were "kill prio adds that are either spread or fuck you up on melee contact" or / and had spread / run away mechanics.

They really should rethink their encounter design since they insist on stuffing more melee specs into this game and more mandatory buffs on melee specs.

[Dangg]

Didn't play it.
Is it worse than EN (which was average for me) and HM (which I think was pretty bad)?

[Wotuu]

My personal experience with Uldir is that the fights are okay, but I really don't find the raid aesthetically pleasing. It may be a lame complaint to have, but it's really just a big square with rooms that all look the same. I'm sure it took a lot of work to create but it just doesn't pull me as much as other raids. I did get the same feeling from EN, I really don't like the layout types of those dungeons. Something like Nighthold was great, even though layout wise it was similar (an entry, then a square where you can choose your path). Antorus was different enough to not make me feel this way, though the teleporting around did feel a bit off.

Because of this I'm not as motivated to raid as I was before. Perhaps it's also to do with the rest of the issues around BfA not making me want to play as much as Legion did.

[Deleted]

I don't like udir much either struggling to find a boss i actually enjoy think only 1s that come to mind are Mythrax and G'huun.

[ymn]

I only have to think of one expansion ago to see a worse raid than Uldir in the Emerald Nightmare.

Maybe it's not a perfect raid, but your title seems quite hyperbolic.

Apart from Xavius being trivialized by Shadow Priests S2M (and generally everyone being slightly overgeared).

Nythendra - easy entry level boss
Dragons of Nightmare - interesting boss fight with teleport phases, decent cleave/add mechanics
Ursoc - a very well done DPS-check boss, a couple of mechanics, one knockback and ezpz
Il'Gynoth (vagina boss) - the add exploding is meehish, but the general mechanics of the tentacles were not too bad
Elerethe Renferal - a decent fight, slightly undertuned, but it was a bit annoying with some RNG involved+flying around and baddies falling down
Cenarius - even with a third-tank trivializing the fight, it was still a good DPS-check boss
Xavius - meh, worst end boss fight ever

I'd give EN a solid 6/10 - and that's just because Cenarius was 5 times harder than Xavius (kinda the same with Spine in Cataclysm), but I always thought that Xavius is kinda that "trophy boss", where if you've got to this part, you get to kill him ezpz.

Trial of Valor however...
Odyn - a messy fight, some RNG involved, definitely not an entry boss-fight
Whatever the name of that Chimaera is - another DPS-check that's done right, 2 mechanics, stay in the right color, avoid him running around in a predictable manner
Helya - awesome fight, add management, plus DPS-checks all across the board, plus individual responsibilities, a hard an awesome fight

That tier would be easy 8/10 if Xavius and some story stuff were changed.

[vekk513]

Uldir feels pretty bad if your raid comp is melee heavy.

[Sixy]

I'm having fun in Uldir, and I think mechanically some of the fights are very interesting. Despite how easy it is, MOTHER is probably one of the most mechanically interesting fights in the game for me (although I think I would have preferred it if they kept in the Hallion laser in at least Mythic). As annoying as phase one is on G'huun, it's definitely an interesting fight as well.

With that being said, as contradictory as it may sound, Uldir is also one of the worst raids that this game has ever seen.

Instead of the raid getting better as it progresses, it gets worse with the better bosses being near the start of the tier instead of near the end of the tier. Taloc is your traditional entry raid fight, MOTHER, as I said, is mechanically a pretty interesting fight despite the easiness of it. Zek'voz wasn't too difficult but was one of the more mechanic heavy fights of the raid. Vectis was honestly probably one of my favorite fights, I thought the debuff mechanic made the fight kind of fun.

This is where the raid starts to slope: Fetid is an annoying fight and begins to introduce what I like to call "artificial" difficulty that's present in the raid. You're punished for having an unideal raid comp and the fight drastically gets more annoying and hard with an added melee. The idea of positioning being everything is an interesting mechanic to learn on a fight, but at the same time, the fight artificially becomes more difficult when you add more melee.

Zul is a horrible fight and also has another weakness of Uldir: class stacking. Rogues completely trivialize the fight and make what would be an otherwise semi-interesting fight into a snoozefest DPS race.

Mythrax re-introduces the artificial difficulty: the more melee you have, the harder and more annoying the fight gets. A melee heavy comp makes the orb spawns hard to deal with, especially when you're swapping to the add. Phase two is completely trivialized by the stacking and warlock gate strat.

I haven't done G'huun, so I will mostly stay quiet about this fight, at least on Mythic. With that being said, from everything I've heard from people who have killed it and seen from footage of guilds killing it, G'huun just sucks. I said the fight is interesting, but the fight is also complete garbage. Phase one is completely boring, and is only interesting if you're an Orb runner. Phase two you can damage the boss, but again, is pretty boring (and quite honestly irrelevant) unless you're an Orb runner, again - outside of the burn phase where the boss is stunned and minimal mechanics are going out. Phase three is the only overall interesting phase of the fight, which is mostly in part due to the growth mechanic.

In short, Uldir is hot garbage and a good amount of difficulty is somewhat artificial depending on your raid composition. I'd argue it's worse than ToS; ToS had heavy emphasis on soaking, but there were also a lot more mechanics going one besides soaking. Uldir isn't very mechanically heavy outside of being completely spread, and the difficulty of the raid is spiked when you have unideal comps, specifically melee heavy comps. That, in combination with the emphasis on class stacking two different classes (Rogues for Zul, Warlocks for G'huun (although the hotfix did make it so you don't need 4 warlocks anymore) - in comparison to just wanting Rogues in ToS), makes Uldir worse than ToS in my opinion.

Worst raid ever? Yeah.. no. It is far better than EN the last equivalent entry raid, equal in terms of enjoyment to many of the 'decent' raids that blizzard has made and just straight up better then many other raids which weren't that great (ToC, Naxx, Dragon Soul, Mogu'shan etc).

- - - Updated - - -

Apart from Xavius being trivialized by Shadow Priests S2M (and generally everyone being slightly overgeared).

Nythendra - easy entry level boss
Dragons of Nightmare - interesting boss fight with teleport phases, decent cleave/add mechanics
Ursoc - a very well done DPS-check boss, a couple of mechanics, one knockback and ezpz
Il'Gynoth (vagina boss) - the add exploding is meehish, but the general mechanics of the tentacles were not too bad
Elerethe Renferal - a decent fight, slightly undertuned, but it was a bit annoying with some RNG involved+flying around and baddies falling down
Cenarius - even with a third-tank trivializing the fight, it was still a good DPS-check boss
Xavius - meh, worst end boss fight ever

I'd give EN a solid 6/10 - and that's just because Cenarius was 5 times harder than Xavius (kinda the same with Spine in Cataclysm), but I always thought that Xavius is kinda that "trophy boss", where if you've got to this part, you get to kill him ezpz.

Trial of Valor however...
Odyn - a messy fight, some RNG involved, definitely not an entry boss-fight
Whatever the name of that Chimaera is - another DPS-check that's done right, 2 mechanics, stay in the right color, avoid him running around in a predictable manner
Helya - awesome fight, add management, plus DPS-checks all across the board, plus individual responsibilities, a hard an awesome fight

That tier would be easy 8/10 if Xavius and some story stuff were changed.

ToV was not a part of EN and stands on it's own.

- - - Updated - - -

3 out of 8 bosses were/are straight up broken.


Fetid: even leaving aside the quick nerfs that had to be done: "let's make a very tight dmg check and pile on huge RNG variance oh and while we're at it, let's cap melee slots".
Zul: 4-5 rogues mandatory.
G'huun: 4 warlocks mandatory


Mother was bugged for weeks, even leaving aside the fact that you need to stack rogues Zul was just terribly boring, G'huun phase one and two feel really insignificant, like two or three DPS could just afk (small hyperbole).

Asigning superlatives is for morons, but I don't see how anyone can take an honest (and informed) look at Uldir and say the Devs have done well.

Neither of those are actually "mandatory" requirements.
You can do ghuun with zero warlocks, it's not optimal but it is absolutely possible. You can also do Zul with zero rogues, and it is likely not even all that hard at this point.

[Fitsu]

This just in mythic raiding isn't friendly to bringing lots of melee, in other news the sky is blue and the sun is hot.

How can this be the WORST raid tier ever, when all the complaints you have are things that have been a thing for literally every single raid tier?

[Frozenbro]

I'm really getting that impression too.

The difference between Heroic Fetid with an Arms Warrior and Sub Rogue and Heroic Fetid without them is fucking gargantuan.

Without Arms and Sub, you need to kill one of the adds every time until 50%. That add has health equal to 7% of the boss' health, and heals rapidly over time. Say Fetid manages to spawn two or three adds before 50%, that's twenty percent more damage than a team WITH Arms and Sub.

Meanwhile, if you do have those two specs, the adds end up healing the boss for 6.7% of its health... while taking damage equal to 7-10% of its health to kill... meaning you actually do BETTER if you literally ignore mechanics.

Wait what, no matter what comp you use you can literally tunnel fetid and ignore the adds, what you describe is 100% a git gud issue, you play with people with suboptimal damage with their spec if you need arms/sub on your comp.

[PaladinBash]

I haven't killed Zul in Mythic yet but it's pretty shit as Ret. A lot of fights in there are shit as Ret. The irony that current Ret would have still sucked in the cleavefest of Legion isn't lost on me but that's not really my problem right now. Sooooo many fights favour ranged and even then certain classes on top of it. Again, Horde had OP racials to cheese things early on but that's not to say my band of casuals would instantly be crushing Method's dick if we had Arcane Torrent or some bullshit but I won't lie, it'd make a lot of shit easier for me right now. Hurr durr being better would also help, having better players would help, having other classes in the raid would help, playing 100% of my ability while never making mistakes would help etc but it never really stops.

TL;DR raid sucks if you're X class, news at 11

[Alphatorg]

Neither of those are actually "mandatory" requirements.
You can do ghuun with zero warlocks, it's not optimal but it is absolutely possible. You can also do Zul with zero rogues, and it is likely not even all that hard at this point.

You can also play wow with your toes, it's not optimal but it is absolutely possible.
First of all I don't see how that's true for G'huun on even the most theoretical of levels before they nerfed orb runs, secondly even with the nerfs warlocks just make the fight insanely easier.

And when Blizzard's design gives you a vastly superior strategy for an encounter the competitive nature of mythic raiding indeed forces guilds to try to adapt that strategy otherwise you get left behind and no one wants that or often can afford it..

What kind of logic is it even to say: well by the time world 1000 with their almost maxed out array get to Zul rogues wouldn't be needed. By the time these guilds have gotten to encounters they've always been faceroll tuned by stat inflation or straight up nerfs. But that doesn't excuse the first x IDs where the encounters tuning required class stacking.

[ramayana1423]

Not even close to the worst. It's not great, it's not bad, its just fine. It doesn't even come back to being as terrible as ToS.

[Mixxy]

Wait what, no matter what comp you use you can literally tunnel fetid and ignore the adds, what you describe is 100% a git gud issue, you play with people with suboptimal damage with their spec if you need arms/sub on your comp.

I never said you couldn't. What I actually said that if you have an Arms Warrior and a Sub Rogue in your raid, you're actually, actively REWARDED for ignoring the adds. The amount of total damage your raid needs to do to beat the boss is lower if you don't follow the mechanics.
But only IF you bring those two specs. If you don't, you actually need to do a bit more than the required minimum damage in order to down Fetid.

Like... you just fundamentally misunderstand. You can down Fetid despite mechanics, yes... but if you have those two DPS specs in your raid, the mechanics literally CHANGE so that not targetting the adds becomes the proper way to handle the mechanic.

[Onikaroshi]

I never said you couldn't. What I actually said that if you have an Arms Warrior and a Sub Rogue in your raid, you're actually, actively REWARDED for ignoring the adds. The amount of total damage your raid needs to do to beat the boss is lower if you don't follow the mechanics.
But only IF you bring those two specs. If you don't, you actually need to do a bit more than the required minimum damage in order to down Fetid.

Like... you just fundamentally misunderstand. You can down Fetid despite mechanics, yes... but if you have those two DPS specs in your raid, the mechanics literally CHANGE so that not targetting the adds becomes the proper way to handle the mechanic.

Idk if you're taking arms SPECIFICALLY for the MS debuff, but RSK from WW monks and some Hunter pets also apply the MS debuff.

Though I do suppose the execute is nice, but it terms of "dmg required" it should be the same with other classes with MS.

[Mixxy]

Idk if you're taking arms SPECIFICALLY for the MS debuff, but RSK from WW monks and some Hunter pets also apply the MS debuff.

Though I do suppose the execute is nice, but it terms of "dmg required" it should be the same with other classes with MS.

That's still not the point. The point is that following the mechanic actually punishes you if you happen to have the right specs in the raid.

Imagine if on, say, Zul... there was a specific spec you could bring that changed the encounter's rules, making it so that letting the Bloods reach Zul actually damaged him, instead of healing him.