NEW PTR Build - Nothing for warlocks

[Gaidax]

You are an anomaly.

I'll append you also mentioned class design in your original post (since this is copy/pasted) which I agree with. Class design is fucking terrible in BFA.

No, WoD was legit good for raiders. Raiding is the thing I like and I'd love to return to WoD - login to raid way of playing. I am not terribly fond of all the AP gathering and such upkeep things.

On the other hand class design is fine in BfA, especially from a warlock perspective. I enjoy a lot the fact that I can play whatever I want without having to make excuses and let my skill show plainly as opposed to being carried by outright OP shit like in MoP.

Various minor gripes are worth dealing with for that amazing feat of balance achieved.

[burek]

You are an anomaly.

No, WoD was great for raiders and raid-loggers especially. But since it was so badly received they had to invent new stuff like world quests, ap grinds, legendaries, m+, island expeditions and so on. The funny thing is, they are also badly received, all of them.

[slickwilly]

No, WoD was great for raiders and raid-loggers especially. But since it was so badly received they had to invent new stuff like world quests, ap grinds, legendaries, m+, island expeditions and so on. The funny thing is, they are also badly received, all of them.

m+ is the new end game. Raiding is for nostalgic snowflakes.

[Schirmy]

WoD just disgustingly abhorrent for me. I hated logging in to raid, hated arena, hated Draenor. Can't make the comparison to Legion because didn't play. I can understand the idea of constant up-keep of grinding and why it's so bad. And no, Gaidax, class design for Lock is bad this expac, too. We will never agree on this.

[Orwell7]

m+ is the new end game. Raiding is for nostalgic snowflakes.

It could be.. but Azerite armor is a big part of the game and you won't get it from m+.

[Liarparadox]

It could be.. but Azerite armor is a big part of the game and you won't get it from m+.

2/3 of my raiding azerite pieces are from M+. When I do M+, I think all three of them are from M+. I hate the slot machine style gearing from M+; but some of the best gear in the game is from there, including Azerite gear.

[Lucrece]

I honestly hate all the comparisons to wod BFA is getting.

I enjoyed the crap out of WoD, the only real issue it had was it funneled the entire outdoor reward structure through garrisons. Which personally I didn't mind, since I had 0 interest in doing dailies or the world quests that replaced them. The raids were fantastic as always, the dungeons were fun, and most importantly class design was still enjoyable for me.

BFA is on the opposite end of the spectrum from wod in both design and my own personal enjoyment. WoD actually was great for me personally because it made it really easy to balance getting in the raids / dungeons I wanted, while also giving me the time to play other games that I wanted to get into. Legion didn't afford me that at all, and BFA is legion light.

I hated WoD simply because I did not like the raids and the fact we got stuck with BRF which was such a massively unenjoyable raid for so long to me, and HFC did not improve things. WoD was barren on features outside the garrisons, which I actually did not mind at all and thought was really well done. We also got a totally interrupted storyline with a bunch of wasted characters and a total of 3 raid tiers stretched out way too thin compared to Legion's wealth of content or even MoP.

I admit the comparison is a little unfair in that BFA is a catastrophically worse xpac, both in features, class design, and story; the content judgement has to be held till the end of the xpac.

[oathy]

Getting to the stage I really dont want to do G'huun anymore.
people are going so nasty about the bloody portal location.
everyone seems to have a different idea where they are supposed to be.

Classic line from earlier "put one on the left, then go and do the same on the right"....
and yep I was the only lock on the raid.

[Baconeggcheese]

I hated WoD simply because I did not like the raids

What didn't you like about them?

[Kagthul]

WoD's main "did this right" things/strengths was actually the PvP system that they then just threw in the trash.

The scaling iLevel gear was pretty well perfect.

There were SOME issues because WoD Season 1's Conquest gear had an iLevel that made it arguably better than Highmaul gear - but thats purely a tuning issue.

They could have made it 640 instead of 660 in PvE and it wouldn't have mattered.

Same with the last season being the same level as HFC - that was only because they cut a raid tier. There were 3 PvP seasons and only 2 raid tiers. If there had been a third raid tier, it would have been higher level than the Season 3 PvP gear's PvE iLevel.

Actual class balance in PvP in WoD was still a shit-show, FWIW, but the reward system was dead-on.

And then they threw it out. For no reason. It was a good system that rewarded all levels of play appropriately. Even casuals could eventually get the "best" PvP gear (just took quite a bit longer) and put themselves on an even field.

[burek]

And then they threw it out. For no reason. It was a good system that rewarded all levels of play appropriately.

Wasn't there a lot of backlash towards holinka, ashran, scaling and basically everything pvp related? On the other hand, there's only backlash these days towards anything they do so that's probably not what drives their decisions.

[Kagthul]

Wasn't there a lot of backlash towards holinka, ashran, scaling and basically everything pvp related? On the other hand, there's only backlash these days towards anything they do so that's probably not what drives their decisions.

Ashran had nothing to do with the gearing system, though, and deserved a pretty harsh amount of criticism. Holinka also had it coming for the mess of class balance.

I was strictly speaking of the gearing system.

The split iLevels was perfect.

Honor gear was acceptable for doing Daily Quests/World Quests, and doing dungeons (in PvE) and was only 10 iLevels below CQ gear in PvP.
CQ gear was acceptable for starting normal mode raids (being slightly better than LFR gear when they weren't having the "its the 3rd season but only second raid tier" issue) but didnt allow you to skip raiding, and was the best PvP gear.

You could acquire it at your own pace, and if you were even a remotely dedicated casual (do your first Win every day, and 4 more wins per week) you'd get your full set of gear about halfway through the season. Faster if you wanted to do a little Ashran. (Which wasn't really that bad for what it was... but it WASNT what was advertised and therefore deserved the criticism it got).

Actual PvP class balance was still a mess (though miles better than current).

[JustaWarlock]

On the other hand class design is fine in BfA, especially from a warlock

At this point you're just trolling, really wish you would stop.

[Gaidax]

At this point you're just trolling, really wish you would stop.

At this point people like you need to just shut up and listen to people who actually show numbers behind their words.

When you will get to my level you can talk shit like that.

[Deleted]

At this point people like you need to just shut up and listen to people who actually show numbers behind their words.

When you will get to my level you can talk shit like that.

Wanna duel my warrior, rogue, mage, enha/ele shaman with your lock? Kiddo, you have no frakking clue.

[Gaidax]

Wanna duel my warrior, rogue, mage, enha/ele shaman with your lock? Kiddo, you have no frakking clue.

Who the fuck is even talking about PvP? That one is merely an offshot of survivability tools not being strong enough, which in turn is a question of pure tupning, not class design. If tomorrow Blizz boosts PTR lock HP by 30% instead of 10% on top of the new PvP talent you will grind your teeth trying to bring one down in arena.

From the class design standpoint - all 3 specs are very different and 2 of them are extremely competitive neck in neck achieving this competitiveness by a vastly different gameplay and toolset. Which is the meaning of what I say.

Learn to read context before you reply, “kiddo”.

And btw, I can duel all of those just fine - I’d say there are pretty much 2 classes I can’t win against and these are none of those you mentioned there.

[JustaWarlock]

Who the fuck is even talking about PvP?

People who aren't trolling and pretending class design is great are talking about PVP.

Actually, you're right class design is great, even though Lock's can't really participate in half the game (PVP). Having 1 good and 1 pretty good spec in PVE but being irrelevant in PVP is the pinnacle of great class design. How could I have been so blind?

[burek]

half the game (PVP)

This is like calling micro holidays a half of the game. PvP is irrelevant.

[Schirmy]

What didn't you like about them?

Highmaul was a pretty good raid and had unique fights, even though I wasn't vibing with the theme that much. Only fight I didn't enjoy on progression was Tectus because of the fucked up camera angles as a ranged. My memory of the raid is plagued by constant alcohol consumption at the time so I can't remember Twin Ogrons that well.

I quit in mythic BRF, but I thought HnF and train boss were the only unique fights. Only raided HFC for a bit because a buddy's guild really needed ranged and I thought the raid sucked, so. That's my 2cents my nibba.

[Deleted]

This is like calling micro holidays a half of the game. PvP is irrelevant.

True. The main issue with Warlock Game Design is that we cant really kite lots of the Mobs on IE.
This makes us generally useless in endgame that matters and is a pain in the ass compared to melee aoe