NEW PTR Build - Nothing for warlocks

[Kagthul]

Why is it that Warlocks always bitch and moan the most? Like seriously, no other class community cries as much as they do, not even the shaman community who's in a much worse spot.

Shamans (as a class) are fine. Individual specs, not so much, but here is a spec that is viable and excells in every part of the game. While warlocks are fine in raids, theyre shit-filled-dumpster-fire nonxviable in PvP as any spec, and just this side of trash in Mythic+.

Your grip on reality isnt so great, tbh.

[Liarparadox]

yeah locks have every right to bitch loudly regarding our state in pvp.

[JabJack]

Control? What control do they have? Are you talking about the 3sec root? Once the DR kick in, they are punchable turrets.

Both Mortal Coil and Entrenched inflames both replicate with havoc regardless if specced into focused chaos. The ability to snare, and horrify two players in one use of havoc is massive when lining up a kill. Coupled with Shadow Fury, Fear, Succubus seduce, Banish. If you argue " What control" then you just want to complain about something you do not understand. I'm not saying warlock in pvp is in a GREAT position like rogues, or mages. Although, despite the squishyness of warlocks right now. That does not mean their damage, and pvp presence is non-existent

Been playing WW in arenas recently, whenever I see a lock regardless of spec they're basically just a punching bag that can't do anything to stop the incoming damage after their very limited defensives drop.

I never argued against the fact warlock survivablity is questionable. Also, mentioned nothing about longevity. Simple put, warlock has an acceptable ( by BFA Standards) toolkit. That doesn't mean they can actually utilize it. The problem is not damage nor lack of diverse Diminishing CC. It's purely they take damage way to easy, and outside of unending resolve they are completely at the mercy of interrupts . Specifically Affliction whose only spell pool is shadow.

IIRC the best warlock atm is Thugonomicz and he himself said warlocks are weak.
Maldiva rerolled Moonkin and in 3 days (I think) got to glad rank in 3's once he started doing arenas. He solo'd a destro warlock in 2.4k rating.

He could just as easily be even higher rated with ANY other caster. I'm not exagerating, it's literally any other caster.

Destro only kills you if you do not know how to play against it or gets punished way too hard for overextending if your teammates are all blizzcon material.

The damage is fine, the control is "ok", but if you're not tunneling a warlock you're doing it wrong.

Which is why warlocks are seeing defensive buffs, and almost no damage nerfs.
I agree that tunneling a warlock is the only realistic option. They just can't deal with melee like they used too. And unless you're playing with a fire mage, more than likely you will be a punching bag.

I agree with the common mentality that warlocks are not the threatening presence like we saw in the past.
Although, when I'm able to actually do my thing. I've found destro, and demo extremely fun to play. Affliction is okay, just feels cluncky af playing around inevitable demise

It's come to the point where two casters have absurd damage, great survivbility, and at its simplest just better to take.

What I've always had a problem with was the lack on consistent balance and or tuning of numbers. Yet, we still have Blizzard holding out 4-5 months for significant changes ( non-game breaking ).
mages (fire) and Boomkins have completely taken the spot light for casters in pvp.

[Baconeggcheese]

I never argued against the fact warlock survivablity is questionable. Also, mentioned nothing about longevity.

Talking up their damage + control implies that they're able to be competitive due to those factors. There are plenty of specs in the game with mediocre survivability but the damage + control to make them competitive.

Destruction does not have the damage and control to make up for its shortcomings.

Simple put, warlock has an acceptable ( by BFA Standards) toolkit. That doesn't mean they can actually utilize it.

This is an oxymoron.

[Lulbalance]

Why is it that Warlocks always bitch and moan the most? Like seriously, no other class community cries as much as they do, not even the shaman community who's in a much worse spot.

Clearly never opened the mage forums when they aren't fashionably overpowered.

[nToxik]

Why is it that Warlocks always bitch and moan the most? Like seriously, no other class community cries as much as they do, not even the shaman community who's in a much worse spot.

Shaman are in a better spot than Warlocks for PvP.

[Deleted]

Both Mortal Coil and Entrenched inflames both replicate with havoc regardless if specced into focused chaos. The ability to snare, and horrify two players in one use of havoc is massive when lining up a kill. Coupled with Shadow Fury, Fear, Succubus seduce, Banish. If you argue " What control" then you just want to complain about something you do not understand.

Warlock control is an absolute joke compared to every other ranged spec in the game bar possibly shaman, and even that I'm not sure of since I'm completely unversed in their kit. Literally the worst ranged when it comes to control, warlocks survivability wouldn't be so dire if they could actually control the other team.
No denying that MC cleaving is "massive" but when it's both coming at the expense of a portal in a meta where warlocks are squishy as fuck and when you factor in how absurdly easy it is to play around a warlocks heavily broadcasted and easily shut down burn window, it's hardly outlandish - it's the bare minimum to being even remotely viable, and that is a fucking STRETCH to call warlocks that currently.

I'm not saying warlock in pvp is in a GREAT position like rogues, or mages. Although, despite the squishyness of warlocks right now. That does not mean their damage, and pvp presence is non-existent

I don't think you understand how dire the representation is - it's below 2% representation on a class that has historically found a way and has enough diehard players to inflate those numbers. Pvp presence may as well be non-existant, it's as close as you can get without being a straight up joke like a tank and is an absurd position for a pure dps to be in, let alone left that way for an entire pvp season while developers say changes are coming ""SOON"" and then put out what may possibly be downgrades on the PTR in the form of survivability being addressed in the form of pvp talents when there's not enough slots for the defensive options you need as is, let alone shoveling more of them onto that instead of making them baseline.

[Dristereau]

There's not been really any noticeable changes from my POV that I can see that is close to the way DK's are, with a new set of Honor Talents and some baseline changes. I was hoping to see Shadowfury made instant, Sacrificial Pact once again be from the pet and Demon Amour baseline.

I'm concerned Warlocks will still be auto trained to the ground as from my experience from friends propping me up in twos and trying to win skirmishes. The gif of the Orc grinning pretty much sums up a melee seeing a Warlock, and I will most likely bench mine when I've levelled up stronger classes (Mage).

https://i.imgur.com/r45vRsM.gif

[lockedout]

I wonder if you would compromise playing a class if it had a 1 button rotation and the depth of a drop of water on the ground so long as it performed well?

Did you play Warlock in TBC because this was Warlock in TBC, at least in PVE.

[wholol]

Did you play Warlock in TBC because this was Warlock in TBC, at least in PVE.

?.. I did , it was the same thing in vanilla too, what's your point?

[Zulatomten]

?.. I did , it was the same thing in vanilla too, what's your point?

He anwsered your hypothetical question with a fact that warlock were just what you asked the first few years of Wow. And we both know what people played and didn't during those years.

[wholol]

He anwsered your hypothetical question with a fact that warlock were just what you asked the first few years of Wow. And we both know what people played and didn't during those years.

Yes but where did I say that I wanted to go back to tbc? seems you missed my point, anyway this topic is getting old, just let it go.

[Zythe]

Still no change lol

[Baconeggcheese]

Still no change lol

They have made changes, time will tell if they're enough.

I feel they've made it clear there aren't going to be dramatic overhauls this xpac, no point in waiting around to see if it'll come.

[Lucrece]

I mean, shamans and spriests waited till 8.1 to receive what amounts to a few talent reshuffles and some number tweaks, crap that could have been hotfixed in much earlier.

This xpac is total filler ala WoD, but worse. They don't even hide how much they're winging class design and that piece of shit azerite system.

[Baconeggcheese]

I honestly hate all the comparisons to wod BFA is getting.

I enjoyed the crap out of WoD, the only real issue it had was it funneled the entire outdoor reward structure through garrisons. Which personally I didn't mind, since I had 0 interest in doing dailies or the world quests that replaced them. The raids were fantastic as always, the dungeons were fun, and most importantly class design was still enjoyable for me.

BFA is on the opposite end of the spectrum from wod in both design and my own personal enjoyment. WoD actually was great for me personally because it made it really easy to balance getting in the raids / dungeons I wanted, while also giving me the time to play other games that I wanted to get into. Legion didn't afford me that at all, and BFA is legion light.

[Schirmy]

I enjoyed the crap out of WoD,

You are an anomaly.

I'll append you also mentioned class design in your original post (since this is copy/pasted) which I agree with. Class design is fucking terrible in BFA.

[Kithelle]

Did they say lock changes in 8.1? I thought it was just the classes that never made it out of beta (shadow and shaman).

Shadow and Enhancement haven't even gotten anything except some bandaid number buffs...does it matter if they said Warlock is getting any changes or not? They still wouldn't get them...

[Baconeggcheese]

You are an anomaly.

I'll append you also mentioned class design in your original post (since this is copy/pasted) which I agree with. Class design is fucking terrible in BFA.

It's not as much of an anomaly as you'd believe.

And yeah, class design is the prime issue above all other things. I'd probably be enjoying BFA if it had MoP / WoD class design. Its so easy to put up with other things when the thing you experience all of those other things through is enjoyable.

[Liarparadox]

I didn't mind WOD. I loved the leveling and dungeons. Hated the time travel story; but the storytelling wasn't as bad as BFA. BFA is just trash storytelling. There's almost nothing redeemable about it. WOD I mostly liked the raids. And gearing was MUCH better. Class design was better too; classes feel incomplete in BFA.

BFA is just a complete failure in terms of gearing; I can't say i love many dungeons. And i'm completely sick of Uldir. I liked leveling in BFA too; but the gear for me is what feel soooo bad. I don't get excited when something drops anymore; i just feel some relief. And it's always some tiny tiny upgrade it pretty much doesn't matter.

Prob for the first time since I started in TBC, I can begin to see the end for me with WOW. Cause aside from a bit of blizz admitting they messed up with Az gear, they seem really happy and proud of themselves with this endless layering of RNG gearing they keep going with. I prob liked BFA more than most when it first came out; but this system has me pretty burned out and unsatisfied.

I'd take WOD any day over BFA. And it doesn't look to me like Blizz wants to turn things around; I fear this is just their new design philosophy. They've ran the numbers I guess and this is what they want.