Malfurion's death or lack there of

[Minikin]

So in the book Sylvanas believes that Elune interfered in Saurfang not decapitating Malfurion. Yet everywhere you go, Saurfang is held as the person who didnt kill him.

Which is the actual version?
- Sylvanas' belief, if Elune interfered, then did Saurfang really have a chance?
- Saurfang's belief, he could have killed him but it wasnt honorable.

Both include a choice yet pretty much totally negate the other as in, if one exists the other cant. So which is true?

If he never had a chance due to Elune, then can he be blamed? if no why? if yes why?

[Aeula]

Saurfang had a choice. His 'honor' wouldn't let him do it.

If Elune was involved it was through Tyrande. Not Saurfang.

[Arrashi]

Yet another example of "divine intervention is great way of covering poor writing" trope.

[Minikin]

Yet another example of "divine intervention is great way of covering poor writing" trope.

i just cant deal with the loopholes lol.

i reread the two books and theres so many. like generally we can kind of predict where this might end up. but its all rule of cool, arcane ship, mass destruction chemical warfare now.

[Koraggar]

It's more accurate to say Sylvanas speculated on the possibility of Elune holding Saurfang back.

Even in this dark hour, they would say, Elune still watches over us.

And that was almost certainly true, wasn’t it? Elune had intervened. Perhaps she had even stayed Saurfang’s killing blow. And she wouldn’t be the only force beyond the Alliance to oppose Sylvanas’s true objective.

Sylvanas’s anger grew cold.

She had known this would happen. It had simply come sooner than expected. That was all.

So we don't actually know what this "intervention" was. Sylvanas thinks may have also stayed Saurfang's blade, in addition to whatever else she did.

[huth]

So we don't actually know what this "intervention" was. Sylvanas thinks may have also stayed Saurfang's blade, in addition to whatever else she did.

That's already a step to far. We don't know if there was any intervention. Sylvanas just thinks so.

[Toho]

Blizzard has multiple writing groups.

Each with their own agenda.

Thats why inconsistency exists in this game and there is no interest in resolving it.

[Koraggar]

That's already a step to far. We don't know if there was any intervention. Sylvanas just thinks so.

Idk, I read it differently.

Elune had intervened.

(i forgot the italics last time)

This statement is 100% declarative. Elune did intervene. It's not speculation, it's observation.

Perhaps she had even stayed Saurfang’s killing blow.

This part is speculation/guessing.

[cparle87]

i just cant deal with the loopholes lol.

i reread the two books and theres so many. like generally we can kind of predict where this might end up. but its all rule of cool, arcane ship, mass destruction chemical warfare now.

It's almost like different people can have different understandings of why events took place.

[Minikin]

It's almost like different people can have different understandings of why events took place.

Different understandings?

Book version:
Malfurion gets smashed through the forest.
Saurfang throws axe and injurs him

Game event:
Saurfang "the warchief cant fight him alone!"
Runs over to find malfurion beating her
Throws axe injurs him

And that is just one example.

There is no "understanding" there are actual different events happening. This isn't the first time either.

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It's more accurate to say Sylvanas speculated on the possibility of Elune holding Saurfang back.




So we don't actually know what this "intervention" was. Sylvanas thinks may have also stayed Saurfang's blade, in addition to whatever else she did.

Yea that's where I was wondering too. Like does that mean elune in terms of tyrande or elune in terms of saurfang waiting before tyrande showed. Cuz he waits.

If it's the first then saurfang never really had a choice. If it's the second then malfs kill count can be added to saurfang's lol.

[Koraggar]

Different understandings?

Book version:
Malfurion gets smashed through the forest.
Saurfang throws axe and injurs him

Game event:
Saurfang "the warchief cant fight him alone!"
Runs over to find malfurion beating her
Throws axe injurs him

And that is just one example.

There is no "understanding" there are actual different events happening. This isn't the first time either.

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Yea that's where I was wondering too. Like does that mean elune in terms of tyrande or elune in terms of saurfang waiting before tyrande showed. Cuz he waits.

If it's the first then saurfang never really had a choice. If it's the second then malfs kill count can be added to saurfang's lol.

It's impossible to say because we don't actually know what intervention she's talking about. It doesn't have to be either honestly. It could have been something completely different for all we know. It's written awkwardly(whether intentionally or not).

I think as of right now we have zero reason to believe Saurfang was influenced by anything. He himself admits why he did it:

Saurfang decided to tell her the truth. “I struck without honor. I did not deserve to end him.”

[Nathasil]

In the book, Saurfang stands there with Malfurion for a long time before Tyrande arrives. He has doubts about his honor, yes, but if you read the passage it is heavily implied that he was litterally paralyzed. Not just by his own doubts.

In the game, Saurfang never had time to think about it, as Tyrande arrives almost immediately and he is never alone with Malfurion either because the PC is there, too.

So the event is drastically different and if you ask Blizzard which is canon they will certainly give you a non-answer.

---

The book DOES state a little later, however, that Saurfang was very happy the event had turned out this way and he was relieved Malfurion survived - only to then have Sylvanas go batshit crazy on him.

So in the end it really does not make that big of a difference. Saurfang did not want Malfurion to die and was happy he did not kill him. Whether Elune paralyzed him or Tyrande intervened before he had a chance does not matter THAT much in the grand scheme of things.

[Aucald]

Elune's "intervention" are the white-hot daggers of Light that threaten Saurfang's life, created by Tyrande's faith and her righteous anger. Whether or not Elune's presence was part of what stayed Saurfang's hand is more open to conjecture - it's possible, given Elune's portfolio of abilities and her penchant for pacifying or soothing the emotions of those who are locked in battle, but it's equally possible that it was all on Saurfang's part (depending on who you want to give the initiative to, as it were). Sylvanas and Tyrande seem to agree it was Elune's doing to some degree, and other people either aren't privy to what happen or want to give Saurfang the initiative in what happened.

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In the book, Saurfang stands there with Malfurion for a long time before Tyrande arrives. He has doubts about his honor, yes, but if you read the passage it is heavily implied that he was litterally paralyzed. Not just by his own doubts.

It was my take-away from "A Good War" that Saurfang wrestled with his doubts for a few moments after Sylvanas left him alone with Malfurion's wounded form, but at the moment he attempt to move (either to raise his axe or turn away) he found he was paralyzed and Tyrande made her appearance. I don't think Saurfang really got to make a choice in the strictest of senses - he struggled with the decision and then the decision was ripped from his hands. I guess you could say hesitation is its own decision, but that enters rather murky territory where the mind is the plaything of conflicting perspectives.

[valax]

So in the book Sylvanas believes that Elune interfered in Saurfang not decapitating Malfurion. Yet everywhere you go, Saurfang is held as the person who didnt kill him.

Which is the actual version?
- Sylvanas' belief, if Elune interfered, then did Saurfang really have a chance?
- Saurfang's belief, he could have killed him but it wasnt honorable.

Both include a choice yet pretty much totally negate the other as in, if one exists the other cant. So which is true?

If he never had a chance due to Elune, then can he be blamed? if no why? if yes why?

why is this even a question?
1) a belief
2) the actual facts

Saurfang had already slain malfurion with that axe throw to the back , he only needed to deliver the killing blow , which he thinks he does not deserve then Tyrande shows up and blocks him .
Had he more time to reflect , i'm sure he would have executed malfurion but he was too slow .

[Deleted]

Both are true, as in, they are not mutually exclusive. From what I recall in "A Good War", it was first Saurfang's hesitation at finishing off Malfurion right away where his emo sense of honour got the better of him, but shortly after this before he could make up his mind to act then Elune intervened and removed that as a possibility altogether. The only question with this though, is if Saurfang would have actually acted before Elune appeared - if we knew this for certain we could say that both were directly responsible for Malfurion surviving. Alas though, it will never be 100% certain how close Saurfang was to following through without Elune's intervention (be it through internal monologue or the like), all we know is that if he was going to then she/it made sure he would not land the killing blow. But being as that will probably never be known, the only element we CAN be 100% of as saving Malfurion was Saurfang's senile sense of honour. Maybe later Blizzard will reveal he was actually close to following through despite this, but for now it lays out like this - definitely muh honour, but only possibly also Elune.

[steelballfc]

there is no divine intervene here

[Illusions]

I believe that the storytelling in general has taken a sort of biased viewpoint for both sides in BfA, which can be cool, but also be confusing in regards to what is canon.

I believe the end result was that while Saurfang did have his doubts (and didn't immediately kill Malfurion), he doubted long enough for Tyrande (and therefore, Elune) to paralyze Saurfang, similarly to how the Undead dude in 8.1 will be while Tyrande wipes the rest out. And afterwards, the daggers of Elune continue threatening him while Tyrande saves Malfurion.

I believe in Elegy, however, the divine intervention from Elune was both showing Tyrande the path to Malfurion, and actually healing Malfurion from the axe to have him actually survive and then bounce back immediately.

I haven't read A Good War yet, but that probably explains the Horde side more. Perhaps Sylvanas thinks Elune intervened by having Malfurion survive.

[Irian]

It's hard to say without knowing how powerful Elune is. Is she a truly almighty goddess that can change the fate of her chosen? If so then perhaps there's some truth to it. It could also be that Saurfang's axe could have killed Malfurion, but Elune's protection spared him with an inch of his life, or that Tyrande's sudden appearance was from an epiphany of Elune.

It's hard to say. I don't think Saurfang by any means was influenced by Elune, but it depends on how you think Elune can manipulate the world around her.

[Sangris]

Blizzard has multiple writing groups.

Each with their own agenda.

Thats why inconsistency exists in this game and there is no interest in resolving it.

Exactly. Too many cooks spoil the broth, and it has been apparent with WoW writing for many years now.

[cparle87]

Different understandings?

Book version:
Malfurion gets smashed through the forest.
Saurfang throws axe and injurs him

Game event:
Saurfang "the warchief cant fight him alone!"
Runs over to find malfurion beating her
Throws axe injurs him

And that is just one example.

There is no "understanding" there are actual different events happening. This isn't the first time either.

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Yea that's where I was wondering too. Like does that mean elune in terms of tyrande or elune in terms of saurfang waiting before tyrande showed. Cuz he waits.

If it's the first then saurfang never really had a choice. If it's the second then malfs kill count can be added to saurfang's lol.

You're confusing me now. You reply to me and say there can't be different understanding of the circumstances of events, then reply to Kora questioning whether Elune helped save Malfurion by causing Saurfang to stay his hand until Tyrande arrived or convincing him not to try to take down Tyrande as well?