M+ increasingly toxic and elitest

[Vilendor]

"Just figure out something else". Oh, how fucking easy. You're so smart, please tell us all how to easily change it from being timed to actually hard and non-cheesy.

Turn them into a mini raid. Switch from farming trash on a timer to increasingly difficult 5-8-10 min boss fights. They give similar reward as mythic raids, then why not. Not saying it needs 20 man style complexity, but 2-3 phase bosses with 3-5 mechanics and weekly m+ buffs designed around them, like cloning: every boss duplicated. Or hardmode: +1 random mechanic to every boss

ps: there you go. but not i am the one who gets paid millions to come up with ideas. So cut back your disgusting arrogance and style next time you talk to me

[MrExcelion]

I believe I saw this on the wow subreddit rather than here, but the TLDR is basically you get a lot of toxicity at the mid-range pug points of M+ and PVP (an ELO hell of sorts). Whereas at the high and low ends are more chill. Said mid-range players strive too hard to be the high-end without understanding their group's true skill level and strengths and weaknesses (aka they think they're something they're not and get stressed out about it). Pugging really can be a mixed bag.

[Flurryfang]

M+ is by nature toxic, so is it that much of a surprise that things are getting bad?

I think it has something to do with the timer. Since you can't get behind from the start, people will find the time to flame from the very get-go of the dungeon, people will leave after the first wipe or if you are slow on a boss. It is a system, where people can early on access if the dungeon will go well and just leave if they don't find it adequate, leaving everyone mid dungeon.

[Great Destiny Man]

The leaderboard doesn't fill up instantly, but it does fast. I'm on Stormrage-US and unless the affix combo is bullshit the leaderboard API is filled with +10's by Friday night; had I to guess, largely due to +10 carry runs.

That's kind of my point, unless you're willing to suggest that everyone with that kind of situation (i.e. has 1k rating with very few clears of all dungeons at 10 and nothing below) are all being stung by doing M+ late enough for it not be counted for anything 8 or under but somehow early enough for the easy dungeons not to go to 10 or above for overcapping this is so absolutely incredibly niche to the point of not worth thinking about.

Either way this is really going on some weird and wonderful what if situations.

- - - Updated - - -

If the DPS douche wants to tank the dungeon himself he should roll a tank, end of story. You don't invite a tank and then tell him how to do it. Its actually fairly straightforward social etiquette, people who ignore it are going to find themselves with a lot of dead keys.

I've had groups literally start abusing me in chat because I pulled a different trash pack than what they were used to pulling in Freehold (a dungeon where you can literally choose from any of dozens of trash packs.) That's the only time I leave dungeons.

At the end of the day if you want to play the laziest role and PUG a tank to do the hard work for you, you don't get the right to tell him how to do it.

This is pretty important here, most people try to spin situations like this to be "oh I gave constructive criticism in a polite way to the tank and he was a baby about it and left" when in reality they're more likely hurling abuse at the tank left, right and centre for not doing as they expected.

If you want to check how a tank is going to approach the dungeon in terms of pulls and whatnot, ask at the start and get a feel for what he prefers to do. Not bothering to do so and then proceeding to "coach" the tank halfway through the run is obviously going to cause friction.

[Chillside]

It's not about being emo, it's about a tank that gets dpsers advising him what to do in many many groups and he'll have none of it. I don't blame him at all. In pugs keep the chat clear and the last thing you do is tell people what to do. Otherwise you end up with a dead key.

It's actually all about being emo. Here is a thing that some people, especially relatively new people don't/will never understand. It's a fact that over the years Blizzard has been dumbing the game down and now, when having a good gear or good raid history means literally dogshit, some people actually think that they're good enough to not tolerate anyone else literally giving them an advice, just because they have higher ilvl or better current content progress or the fact that they can get away with pretty much anything because tanks are rare in general, while everyone else around them knows how shit they are, sometimes you gotta look at things objectively and you might realize that the only reason you get to do these dungeons is because you're a good geared tank

[ydraw]

It's actually all about being emo. Here is a thing that some people, especially relatively new people don't/will never understand. It's a fact that over the years Blizzard has been dumbing the game down and now, when having a good gear or good raid history means literally dogshit, some people actually think that they're good enough to not tolerate anyone else literally giving them an advice, just because they have higher ilvl or better current content progress or the fact that they can get away with pretty much anything because tanks are rare in general, while everyone else around them knows how shit they are, sometimes you gotta look at things objectively and you might realize that the only reason you get to do these dungeons is because you're a good geared tank

It's actually not about being emo at all. You don't tell other people how to do their jobs. I don't tell DPSers how to DPS more when I tank, despite the fact that I know how to play their class much better than they do. And that's under the very generous assumption that they are doing it politely, which they most often aren't.

The tank may have a good reason for doing the things they do. 90% of the time when I get "advice" as a tank, it's because I did something differently or took a different path than what they expected, and the "advice" wasn't advice at all, it's stuff like "omg" "wat" "why are you going this way" etc. In the situation talked about earlier, he talked about the tank not death gripping a certain mob. The tank might well have been saving grip to interrupt an important ability, but DPSers don't care about that sort of thing, he was most likely just raging because his AOE wasn't hitting all the mobs and didn't really consider anything else.

[Chillside]

It's actually not about being emo at all. You don't tell other people how to do their jobs. I don't tell DPSers how to DPS more when I tank, despite the fact that I know how to play their class much better than they do. And that's under the very generous assumption that they are doing it politely, which they most often aren't.

The tank may have a good reason for doing the things they do. 90% of the time when I get "advice" as a tank, it's because I did something differently or took a different path than what they expected, and the "advice" wasn't advice at all, it's stuff like "omg" "wat" "why are you going this way" etc. In the situation talked about earlier, he talked about the tank not death gripping a certain mob. The tank might well have been saving grip to interrupt an important ability, but DPSers don't care about that sort of thing.

No it's about being emo, you don't tell dps'ers how to dps because they're doing their job, but when you see some arrogant prick who doesn't even know how to put his camera distance high enough to see what's going on around him and the group is about to wipe because of his ignorance, yea politely telling him to use one of his abilities is the least you should do
See a dpser making a mistake, doing little damage or screwing something up, i guarantee you in most cases he'll say sorry if you try to correct him... yea i get it, "sorry" doesn't fix the problem but being a clueless delusisonal dipshit and thinking that you know everything better than someone else is not acceptable, I don't care who you are, grow a pair of balls and suck it up

[Deleted]

The solution is so simple...just find a decent active guild and stop playing with random players. No more toxic waste.

[boz0]

No it's about being emo, you don't tell dps'ers how to dps because they're doing their job, but when you see some arrogant prick who doesn't even know how to put his camera distance high enough to see what's going on around him and the group is about to wipe because of his ignorance, yea politely telling him to use one of his abilities is the least you should do
See a dpser making a mistake, doing little damage or screwing something up, i guarantee you in most cases he'll say sorry if you try to correct him... yea i get it, "sorry" doesn't fix the problem but being a clueless delusisonal dipshit and thinking that you know everything better than someone else is not acceptable, I don't care who you are, grow a pair of balls and suck it up

Refusing to put up with abuse from an asshole is not being emo, it's just rational use of your gaming time. And that's true whether you're a tank, heal, dps or someone's pet murloc.

Pointing out mistakes or giving useful advice is fine (at least, *I* enjoy getting useful advice). "omg wtf r u doing tank" is not useful advice, "l2p" or "git good" are not useful advice, and that's not even going into the less savory remarks.

Basically, if you behave like an asshole, expect to be treated like one, especially if supply and demand doesn't play in your favor.

[Oriana]

I don't get it honestly. There are appears (judging by this thread alone) to be a lot of ppl who say that rio is bad and blizz should remove it from the game. Why don't they create their own community and run keys only with like-minded people?

A free idea: start creating groups with a title saying that rio will not be checked or something like that.

[Chillside]

Refusing to put up with abuse from an asshole is not being emo, it's just rational use of your gaming time. And that's true whether you're a tank, heal, dps or someone's pet murloc.

Pointing out mistakes or giving useful advice is fine (at least, *I* enjoy getting useful advice). "omg wtf r u doing tank" is not useful advice, "l2p" or "git good" are not useful advice, and that's not even going into the less savory remarks.

Basically, if you behave like an asshole, expect to be treated like one, especially if supply and demand doesn't play in your favor.

Twisting the words and adding your own version of bits and pieces to the already existing story, which i delivered precisely by the way, is not the way to go. You either check your facts about the particular subject before stating your opinion about it or you don't say anything at all

[Risheru]

No it's about being emo, you don't tell dps'ers how to dps because they're doing their job, but when you see some arrogant prick who doesn't even know how to put his camera distance high enough to see what's going on around him and the group is about to wipe because of his ignorance, yea politely telling him to use one of his abilities is the least you should do
See a dpser making a mistake, doing little damage or screwing something up, i guarantee you in most cases he'll say sorry if you try to correct him... yea i get it, "sorry" doesn't fix the problem but being a clueless delusisonal dipshit and thinking that you know everything better than someone else is not acceptable, I don't care who you are, grow a pair of balls and suck it up

I think the only "clueless delusional dipshit" here is you. All you do is trying to push your agenda with confirmation bias. Tanking is the highest pressure job in this game. If you fuck up, your whole group is dying - why do you think there is such high demand for tanks? If you got one bad DPS in the group, you can still carry him to dungeon completion, especially with current gear level. Yea you might need to take on insults the same way a tank does, but as a DPS you can be happy to have found a group that is willing to take you, especially if youre not a fotm class.

Also watching your tone in your posts paints a clear picture of what your tone is when you hand out "advice".

[Daevied]

next step is quitting the game. you'll have an even bigger sense of freedom.

Cant do. I still like raiding with my guild

[Feral Druid ist Op]

The solution is so simple...just find a decent active guild and stop playing with random players. No more toxic waste.

not even, a rnd realm 50-100 HC guild can do + 10 - 12 just fine

[Marrilaife]

just because they have higher ilvl or better current content progress or the fact that they can get away with pretty much anything because tanks are rare in general, while everyone else around them knows how shit they are, sometimes you gotta look at things objectively and you might realize that the only reason you get to do these dungeons is because you're a good geared tank

Well, you just pointed it out: most groups will be either stuck with no tank or "shit" tank. Why? Because tanks are rare. Now stop for a while and think, why are they rare, and why is there 30 dps queued for every tank.

Giving tanks shit for how "shit" they are doesn't help the situation, it just moves you from the category "stuck with shit tank" into "stuck with no tank".

[La]

Goodluck trying to get into M+ as a pure DPS class when you hit the 340 range unless you play with friends/join a guild. It'll never happen, and raid io doesn't show your main so it's not like you can even show that you're an alt with 1 1k io 8/8M main or something.

If you're serious about gearing up, find a guild/community that does M+. If you want to do M+ in general, again, you should search for guilds. Sadly, that's the nature of these timed dungeons. You might not want to do that, but if you're even a tiny bit serious about gearing up, you need to do it.

[ydraw]

Goodluck trying to get into M+ as a pure DPS class when you hit the 340 range unless you play with friends/join a guild. It'll never happen, and raid io doesn't show your main so it's not like you can even show that you're an alt with 1 1k io 8/8M main or something.

Raider.io does show your main if you create an account there and link your characters. I've invited many low geared players with 1200+ main .io scores and was always glad I did.

[ID811717]

Raider.io does show your main if you create an account there and link your characters. I've invited many low geared players with 1200+ main .io scores and was always glad I did.

There are certain requirements you need to fulfill in order to display the score:
https://support.raider.io/kb/raider-...-show-my-score

The addon shows scores for all players who meet the following criteria:

You've earned at least 500 points in the current or any previous Mythic+ season.
You've logged into the game in the past 30 days.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

M+ continues to be friendly and fun.
I do M+ with friends and we have fun.
If you are choosing to be toxic with strangers, that is your choice, your consequences.

[Kuruption]

The solution is so simple...just find a decent active guild and stop playing with random players. No more toxic waste.

M+ continues to be friendly and fun.
I do M+ with friends and we have fun.
If you are choosing to be toxic with strangers, that is your choice, your consequences.

I mean, these two quotes are the answer, but people, for whatever reason, keep going back to try pugging with assholes.