1. #1
    The Patient Warcrafting's Avatar
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    Are the Forsaken a Cult? A Bite Model Analysis

    Now, before you start raging at me, please allow me to explain.

    We all have a general idea of what a cult is. However, few outside academic circles have a serious understanding of the real nature of the term. Recently, I became interested in the topic, and learned of what is known as the Bite Model, the model used in sociological studies to determine whether an organization displays cult-like tendencies. And, when I went back to listen to Before the Storm, a few too many pieces started to slide into place. I performed a comparison against the Bite Model, and, well, allow me to show you my results.

    The Bite Model is divided into 4 main sections, with points subdivided into these sections. For each section, I will state the overall match, as well as a few key points I thought worthy of mention.

    Section 1: Behavior Control
    This section is, frankly, the least followed of all of them. The Forsaken have a frankly surprising amount of freedom in their mobility, at least within Horde territory. In addition, the nature of their undeath precludes much of the behavior control techniques common to cults. They don't eat, sleep, or reproduce, all factors humans can be easily controlled through. A promising start, but can the Forsaken keep it up?

    Section 2: Information Control
    No. No they could not. One of Sylvanas' defining traits as a leader is her mastery of information manipulation, and the lengths she'll go to to keep control of the narrative. Before the Storm is filled with damning evidence of her willingness to lie and manipulate. On a small level, we see the restriction of information flow from the human past. Parqual, a historian and former member of the Desolate Council, informs us in the book of being forced to smuggle into the Undercity books on human history. Any time he attempted to bring them in openly, they were seized by Sylvanas' forces, and Parqual was informed he was to sever any ties with the past, that the only history worth remembering is the Forsaken history. This is textbook cult behavior.

    On a larger scale, consider the massacre at Arathi Highlands. Sylvanas murdered any Forsaken, defector or not, who could possibly contradict her narrative that the humans were evil monsters who had turned their backs on the undead. She specifically phrased it as "rooting out the seed of hope".

    Section 3: Thought Control
    Sadly, the Forsaken run into serious issues here as well. Sylvanas' constant reinforcement of the concept of "Forsaken first, the rest never" is a serious red flag for cult behavior. Forcefully disconnecting individuals from any potential source of dissenting information is an important step in cult indoctrination, and teaching members that the rest of the world hates them is a prime way of accomplishing that. Forsaken also become masters of denial and rationalization, permitting the most heinous acts because their Dark Lady permits them. This deification of the leader is the primary source of a cult leader's power and control.

    I would also like to point out something small, but certainly not minor: the encouraged alteration of names. We learn, once more from Before the Storm, that the Forsaken highly encourage the newly raised to take on new names, to signify their "rebirth" and separation from their past. Two great examples are Nathanos Blightcaller and Velcinda, former leader of the Desolate Council. This renaming process allows cults to instill a new identity in members, one fully controlled by the cult, and separate them from any past experiences. In essence, renaming is an attempt to kill the past of members.

    Section 4: Emotional Control
    This section becomes... murky. The very nature of Undeath causes a number of emotional issues; namely, the reanimation process effectively seals off positive emotions, due to the incomplete soulbinding process. How much of the Forsaken's clear emotional instabilities are due to this handicap, and how much is due to cult-like behavior? For this section, I want to stress I am trying to be as stringent as possible, only taking the most obvious of examples in an attempt to be fair and balanced.

    As such, next to section 1, this is the second-least followed. However, we do know there is a serious campaign to "poison the well", as the term goes, against the living by Sylvanas. The only Forsaken Sylvanas allowed to survive the Arathi Massacre were those who came back early, turned away at the last minute by their loved ones. When Sylvanas speaks to Annie, we can see her active attempt to instill bitterness and hatred towards the living in these Forsaken. The plan being that these individuals will then go back to the Undercity, further causing distrust of living family and friends.

    Sylvanas, prior to the meeting, also actively demonstrates that she did not want the meeting to occur, but that she agreed for the sake of the Council. She privately expected things to go badly, but with her statements placed the blame for it at the feet of the Council. The leader is infallible, any mistakes lie with the cult members.

    Summary
    The Forsaken showed clear cult behavior for sections 2 and 3, and serious cult-like tendencies for section 4. The only outlying section is section 1. Overall, I score Bite Model Compatibility for the Forsaken at 65%-75%, give and take based on individual points and subjective opinions.

    Conclusion
    Based on the evidence provided, I would conclude that Sylvanas' Forsaken are cult-like at best, a full-blown cult at worst. Sylvanas' mastery over information and thought is among some of the most infamous cult leaders of our time. Her only major weakness is in behavior control, and that is clearly not an issue when looking at other areas.

    Biases and Issues
    I want to be open here, I came into this analysis despising Sylvanas. I believe her to be a psychopathic tyrant who needs to be stopped. I am also someone who mains a Night Elf, and who is deeply immersed in the lore. I admit these things freely, as we must all understand our own biases. However, I assure you, I have done my diligence, as all researchers must, to set aside my biases and look at the data as objectively as possible.
    I also want to raise the fact that the Bite Model is not fully, well, compatible with the sort of world Warcraft has set up; namely, medievel high fantasy. The Bite Model was developed to understand cults in our modern day, with all the freedoms we take for granted. What would be a cult in today's America would be commonplace in, say, Ancient Rome. As such, keep in mind there may be a certain disconnect between story and model, and take such into account when drawing your own conclusions.

    If you have made it this far, I thank gor for sticking through this long post, and I hope you may be able to add to tbe discussion in the comments!
    "All of Time and Space. Everything that ever was or ever will be. Where do you want to start?"

    "We're all stories, in the end. Just make it a good one, eh?"

  2. #2
    Damn love the post!! I’ve wondered it myself for a while. She has such a sway on her people that they will literally do anything that she asks. There is little to no freethinking just blind faith. Would love to know more about this. Does she employ a degree if control aka-Lich King on her subjects?

  3. #3
    I really enjoyed reading this post. And yes, I thought it was widely established that the Forsaken are a personality cult around Sylvanas. So I would agree that the forsaken are indeed a cult.

  4. #4
    The Unstoppable Force Friendlyimmolation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hobbidaggy View Post
    Damn love the post!! I’ve wondered it myself for a while. She has such a sway on her people that they will literally do anything that she asks. There is little to no freethinking just blind faith. Would love to know more about this. Does she employ a degree if control aka-Lich King on her subjects?
    No, it's been outright stated multiple times by the developer she doesn't.


    @OP very good post.
    Quote Originally Posted by WoWKnight65 View Post
    That's same excuse from you and so many others on this website and your right some of threads do bully high elf fans to a point where they might end up losing their minds to a point of a mass shooting.
    Holy shit lol

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    No, it's been outright stated multiple times by the developer she doesn't.


    @OP very good post.
    They say a lot of things but there just are a few things that don’t add up like the fact in the novel the Foresaken are almost human and remember their lives and want a relationship with their human families, yet in Darkshore the undead NE’s are immediately loyal to her without question. Just doesn’t add up.

  6. #6
    The Unstoppable Force Friendlyimmolation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hobbidaggy View Post
    They say a lot of things but there just are a few things that don’t add up like the fact in the novel the Foresaken are almost human and remember their lives and want a relationship with their human families, yet in Darkshore the undead NE’s are immediately loyal to her without question. Just doesn’t add up.
    Blame it on storytelling in an MMO, as it currently stands, Sylvanas doesn't mentally control undead.
    Quote Originally Posted by WoWKnight65 View Post
    That's same excuse from you and so many others on this website and your right some of threads do bully high elf fans to a point where they might end up losing their minds to a point of a mass shooting.
    Holy shit lol

  7. #7
    Now make one about Tyrande's cult.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...lopment-thread
    Quote Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post
    If you are suggesting to take my Night Elfs Shadowmeld away, then please find some pike to run yourself through, tyvm.

  8. #8
    Since the beginning she's basically had them revere her as their messiah, because that's how she views herself. Now that you put it that way, it is a teensy bit culty.

    The most malevolent thing in this regard she did was the Gathering. Culling those she thought were getting too sentimental about their old lives and maybe might possibly at some point in the future despite no particular evidence betray her. Thought control through outright killing of those that didn't fit her mold due to paranoia.

    Do you think she'd kill Faol if she thought she could get away with it? I do.

  9. #9
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    I wouldn't call the Forsaken a cult specifically - as in they don't have a system of beliefs unique to them headed by a charismatic leader (with said leader often the subject of said veneration), but I would say that Sylvanas leads the Forsaken in the manner of a cult of personality centered around herself. The only element of a traditional "cult" missing with the Forsaken is a uniform doctrine that defines a religion or set of beliefs for the "cultists" to follow. The Forsaken and their relationship to Sylvanas is more in the mold of a charismatic and tyrannical leader who holds the population in thrall due to past actions (e.g. Sylvanas' role in freeing many Forsaken from the Lich King's domination) fortified by said leader's level of control over the society at large. We know from multiple sources that Sylvanas has no altruism and no distinct duty of care to her people, "Edge of Night" is at pains to show us that rather than being a benevolent leader she views the Forsaken with disgust, valuing them only in terms of what they can do for her and then as a protective barrier against threats to her person. Her intense desire not to suffer the final death has actually increased her hold upon the Forsaken populace, as shown in "Before the Storm," instituting reforms to their society designed to increase her subjects' dependence on her and hopefully their reverence for her.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    No, it's been outright stated multiple times by the developer she doesn't.
    I'd say this is less a matter of degree and more one of their method of control being completely different. The Lich King had much more direct means available and could literally force people to behave a certain way, even if they disagreed with it. Just remember the Paladin in Naxxramas.

  11. #11
    you did this entire post for something that could be even summarize reading the forsaken presentation in vanilla?
    she is basically forsaken's fidel castro then she growth some stalinian cult of personality. thats all.

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