how will blizzard break the bond between the player and sylvanas

[Ulfric Trumpcloak]

For one, she's no longer walking around half naked.

[Arrashi]

They won't. Same as they didn't with garrosh, hence why he has his supporters to this day.

[nothingsjim]

Blizzard has already showcased her sociopathy, from committing genocide to killing her own soldiers etc

If players still side with her because somehow they felt she's "Right", it's the player's issue, not Blizzard's. Sure, Blizzard could go an extra mile and have her murder kittens then raise them as face-eating zombie kittens, but at that point players (Even those who doesn't like Sylvanas) will be calling Blizzard out for derailing a character, and her fanboy will gleefully ignore those bits as they continue to support their warchief.

It's not Blizzard's fault that some players genuinely like playing an evil faction. Heck, I remember back in 2003 (Or is it 2004?) when Undead was announced as a player race, some people were disappointed to learn they will be playing the free willed and tragic Forsaken instead of the world murdering Scourge.

[Zandalariprelate]

Blizzard has already showcased her sociopathy, from committing genocide to killing her own soldiers etc

If players still side with her because somehow they felt she's "Right", it's the player's issue, not Blizzard's. Sure, Blizzard could go an extra mile and have her murder kittens then raise them as face-eating zombie kittens, but at that point players (Even those who doesn't like Sylvanas) will be calling Blizzard out for derailing a character, and her fanboy will gleefully ignore those bits as they continue to support their warchief.

It's not Blizzard's fault that some players genuinely like playing an evil faction. Heck, I remember back in 2003 (Or is it 2004?) when Undead was announced as a player race, some people were disappointed to learn they will be playing the free willed and tragic Forsaken instead of the world murdering Scourge.

The real problem is the repetition of the same plot as mop, the horde doesn't want to be a red alliance but also doesn't want to be very brutal when the alliance is playing nice for most of the time(Rogers commands you to kill disarmed horde soldiers after the crash with the forsaken fleet), the alliance doesn't want to become in a babysitter or let the horde get away because we killed the figurehead while other guys that were aboard with the whole thing are whitewashed and then blizzard kills the next warchief to promote another person and restart the whole faction war again, happened with Thrall and Vol'jin, what makes you think this time will be different? Heck I even predict if Sylvanas is dethroned the next warchief will endure for 1 expansion at most and then he will be killed by the next one and it will promoted another guy/girl with a vague excuse, in this case I can see Baine or Saurfang promoting Gera'ya because she is an orc that loves the traditions of the horde and she is young leader with potential but surprise that expansion will bring Yrel and her lightbound group to azeroth and they will join the alliance which is gonna push her buttons and ta-dah a new faction war storyline has been opened

[Inukashi]

...

I thought the question was more about the ooc bonds and not the ones to her own people.
Also.. yeah I think some people like her just for her appearance. It's the internet after all. But I won't judge.. that's just objective observation

...

I think Sylvanas is stupid as a Character now (liked her before BfA though).
I have nothing against the people who like her. That's a difference.
I know it's WARcraft.. but still I can't sympathize with someone who thinks genocide is a valid way to start a war.

[Zora-Prime]

I thought the question was more about the ooc bonds and not the ones to her own people.
Also.. yeah I think some people like her just for her appearance. It's the internet after all. But I won't judge.. that's just objective observation


I think Sylvanas is stupid as a Character now (liked her before BfA though).
I have nothing against the people who like her. That's a difference.
I know it's WARcraft.. but still I can't sympathize with someone who thinks genocide is a valid way to start a war.

Except the she didn't start the war, Genn did in Stormheim. A fact many people seem to conveniently ignore.

[Inukashi]

Except the she didn't start the war, Genn did in Stormheim. A fact many people seem to conveniently ignore.

Did he really? I remember this quest dialog
Sky Admiral Rogers says: We are to track them from a safe distance. We may engage, but only if the situation demands.
And suddenly bats, bats everywhere.

And after Legion, there was no active war between the alliance and the horde. So even though Sylvanas and Genn had a Conflict in Stormheim we weren't in a state of war. I even would say Stormheim was something personal between two peoples of two nations and neither of them fought in the name of their nation.

Beside that I also don't like Genn...

So while the Stormheim conflict really was discussable (who attacked first? Was it the Bats or the Cannon-Fire? Did the alliance just help it's allys/the valkyrs? Was it an act of war or something personal from greymane? It was just two leaders with their personal squad...)

I think the burning of Teldrassil is clear. The Full Army of the Horde marched to teldrassil and burned it, right after we celebrated the defeat of our enemy.

But even though the Stormheim conflict may be the alliance' fault. I still think that Sylvanas has become a stupid character. She was awesome in Wc3 and till the End of Legion. Greymane is at least somehow realistic as an old and grumpy warmonger, who I wouldn't like personally, but I can accept it as a figure in a story.

[Flurryfang]

I would not be that surprised if they actually did not break the bond and just forced us into fighting her(if we really are gonna fight her). So far they have done a terrible job at putting Sylvanas up as an antagonist, and that is despite them doing quite an effort. They seem to think, that if they just change her character, make her directly evil with some james bond villian excuses behind her actions, then the playerbase will turn their back to her, but it just does not work like that. The sudden switch just makes people latch on to the past version of Sylvanas and unless blizzard takes the time to develop the Cata-Legion Sylvanas into what she is gonna be for end-BFA, than it will stay like this.

So if Blizzard wants to break favoritism of Sylvanas by the fan-base, they have to actually spend time to make her go from likeable to understandably evil, instead of this cartoon evil character we have right now.

[Zora-Prime]

Did he really? I remember this quest dialog
Sky Admiral Rogers says: We are to track them from a safe distance. We may engage, but only if the situation demands.
And suddenly bats, bats everywhere.

And after Legion, there was no active war between the alliance and the horde. So even though Sylvanas and Genn had a Conflict in Stormheim we weren't in a state of war. I even would say Stormheim was something personal between two peoples of two nations and neither of them fought in the name of their nation.

Beside that I also don't like Genn...

So while the Stormheim conflict really was discussable (who attacked first? Was it the Bats or the Cannon-Fire? Did the alliance just help it's allys/the valkyrs? Was it an act of war or something personal from greymane? It was just two leaders with their personal squad...)

I think the burning of Teldrassil is clear. The Full Army of the Horde marched to teldrassil and burned it, right after we celebrated the defeat of our enemy.

But even though the Stormheim conflict may be the alliance' fault. I still think that Sylvanas has become a stupid character. She was awesome in Wc3 and till the End of Legion. Greymane is at least somehow realistic as an old and grumpy warmonger, who I wouldn't like personally, but I can accept it as a figure in a story.

I don't think Sylvanas changed much (at least not since she was resurrected by the valkyr the first time). The only difference now is that she has a much larger army.
Instead of nuking down small towns like Androhol, she now has much bigger targets.

I think Characters like Garrosh and Sylvanas are fantastic for this stale boring story. It would be a waste if that every time a character that isn't made of cardboard stands out a little we have to turn them into a raid boss.

There has been more discussion/interest in the lore because of these characters. Which, like them or not, are better than the bland era of "MA HONOR"

[Evilfish]

So while the Stormheim conflict really was discussable (who attacked first? Was it the Bats or the Cannon-Fire? Did the alliance just help it's allys/the valkyrs? Was it an act of war or something personal from greymane? It was just two leaders with their personal squad...)

But it is not discussable. It's actually perfectly clear. Genn takes the first shot.

[Inukashi]

...

I didn't play horde for a while, so I didn't "see" her since she was resurrected. I only remember her old, revengeful spirit, hating arthas, giving hope to her followers.

After reading 'before the storm' I was like "Wow, they forced a perfectly fine character into an antagonist-role".
During Garrosh times she searched for a way to protect her people and prevent them from vanishing.
Now she just wants to end the 'curse called life'.

But it is not discussable. It's actually perfectly clear. Genn takes the first shot.

Can you tell me what point you mean? Maybe I really missed something..

[mysticx]

So if Blizzard wants to break favoritism of Sylvanas by the fan-base, they have to actually spend time to make her go from likeable to understandably evil, instead of this cartoon evil character we have right now.

But Sylvanas is obviously evil, death camps with the express purpose of killing and raising the remnants of a race you near-genocided before isn’t the sort of thing you can handwave with “pragmatism” or “morally grey” (People will try though), only edgelords and people who want to play utterly evil characters will back Sylvanas after that, and there’s no convincing them anyway, just like the keyboard-warriors still complaining about Garrosh not getting to conquer all of Azeroth...

[Evilfish]

Can you tell me what point you mean? Maybe I really missed something..

About Greymane and Rodgers attacking the Forsaken Fleet.

[Flurryfang]

But Sylvanas is obviously evil, death camps with the express purpose of killing and raising the remnants of a race you near-genocided before isn’t the sort of thing you can handwave with “pragmatism” or “morally grey” (People will try though), only edgelords and people who want to play utterly evil characters will back Sylvanas after that, and there’s no convincing them anyway, just like the keyboard-warriors still complaining about Garrosh not getting to conquer all of Azeroth...

Yes, Sylvanas is currently obviously evil, thats not the problem. The problem is that before the burning of teldrassil quest-lines, she wasen't. Instead of having a single version of Sylvanas, by not having her transition into obviously evil and simply just made her be it at Teldrassil, they have split Sylvanas up in 2: The current version of Sylvanas and the version people liked more by being more chaotic neutrul/good from back in Cata/early legion. By not having a transition, there is a clear distinct line between them and that have created this divide.

[mysticx]

Yes, Sylvanas is currently obviously evil, thats not the problem. The problem is that before the burning of teldrassil quest-lines, she wasen't. Instead of having a single version of Sylvanas, by not having her transition into obviously evil and simply just made her be it at Teldrassil, they have split Sylvanas up in 2: The current version of Sylvanas and the version people liked more by being more chaotic neutrul/good from back in Cata/early legion. By not having a transition, there is a clear distinct line between them and that have created this divide.

Sylvanas was always evil, there was always experimentation with poisons, Southshore got plagued to hell in Cataclysm, no way the plague was developed without Sylvanas knowing about it (With all the resources going into development, hard to cover it up from the leader of the city), but until Wrath she was mostly gunning for Arthas, his death left her pretty aimless, in Cata she was busy keeping Garrosh from sending her people on suicide missions, but since then her only aim seems to be propagation undeath.

The worst bit of it all though, is that after being made Warchief she’s dragging the entire Horde into the gutter with her, and that’s a shame, Sylvanas was useful as a “loose cannon” character before (Some faction conflict keeps the story interesting), but as warchief of the entire Horde, she’s just evil for the heck of it, and that’s just as boring in the long run as a “lawful stupid” do-gooder like Anduin...

[Inukashi]

About Greymane and Rodgers attacking the Forsaken Fleet.

So we have this conflict between Greymane, Rodgers and Sylvanas. Why did you pick THIS point of time as the 'start of war' and not Gilneas or every other aggression from Sylvanas (what was clearly first)?


Sylvanas attacked both more than once, but only the point where they once hit her is the start of war? That's a bit picky I think.

If we really pick this conflict as the start of war we should pick the start of this conflict and not some random point of it, just because sylvanas wasn't the aggressor this time.

Also Sylvanas ships were full of plague containers on the way to one of our most important allys: Odyn. To enslave his Valkyrs.

[Malikath]

About Greymane and Rodgers attacking the Forsaken Fleet.

you mean the ambush from the clouds by the forsaken?

[Deleted]

You can't. She is Warcraft's version of South Park Caitlyn Jenner, stunning and brave no matter who she runs over.

[MrSaggins]

I figured it would end with Sylvanas sacrificing herself, or at least her mantle of Warchief.

[Halyon]

Pff, no need, never had one when it comes to her. She was always sketchy to me, but actually more in the grey area waaay back when. Now she's full on villain and I want her dead.