Sylvanas x Burning of Teldrassil vs. Arthas x Culling of Stratholme - Morally Grayer?

[Deleted]

One was about to halt the spreading of a plague to reach the rest of the kingdom.

The other is about bombing a city simply out resource-war.

Nothing to really compare with imo.

[Okacz]

Not comparable. Culling of Stratholme was the prime example of lesser evil that needed to be done to prevent a worse outcome. It's Arthases soulless approach to the situation and refusal to even discuss other options, ruthlessly silencing anyone opposing him that made it an evil act. Sylvanas simply declared war to conquer the city, and burned the Teldrassil when she felt like a burned tree is worth more than an unburned one.

I guess the only real parallel is that both of the aggressors were blonde.

[Maxilian]

Can we all agree that the morally grey idea of Blizzard comes from something they have not shown yet?

I mean... it most likely going to end up with something like: "Sylvanas did all this to solve the eternal pain and suffering that awaits most mortal souls, so she sacrificed lives to save souls, see!, not that bad!", and is really likely that the way it is going to be shown, is going to leave us with the same "Not enough" feeling that Kerrigan left us.

[Blizzard Moneybot]

Did you forgot Jaina genocide to horde mages on Dalaran? After that se would to do another genocide in Orgrimmar..

Nothing to forget, she killed like 5 blood elves that tried to attack her you whinging horde sycophant. And she didn't even attack Orgrimmar. Densest material known to man found between the ears of Horde fanbois.

Infracted.

[Shibito]

Nothing to forget, she killed like 5 blood elves that tried to attack her you whinging horde sycophant. And she didn't even attack Orgrimmar. Densest material known to man found between the ears of Horde fanbois.

Ah alliance fanboys shreeking

[Combatbutler]

These events aren't comparable at all, at the time Arthas was still fully in control of himself and the city was infected. The burning of Teldrassil could only be used as a comparison if she had ordered its burning while she was still alive and even then it doesn't work, because the tree didn't have to burn.

[vertigo12]

These events aren't comparable at all, at the time Arthas was still fully in control of himself and the city was infected. The burning of Teldrassil could only be used as a comparison if she had ordered its burning while she was still alive and even then it doesn't work, because the tree didn't have to burn.

Let's see.
- Both have a decision to make. A split second one.
- Both have a form of control.
- Both have some external stimuli that brought them to commit genocide and arson. One is a Dreadlord and the other a NE captain.
- one is brought by pre-empting supposedly a going to be Azerite War the other Biohard epidemic bringing zombie apocalypse.
- Both are somewhat done to their similar race. Human on human, Elf on Elves.

[Lelkowski]

Let's see.
- Both have a decision to make. A split second one.
- Both have some external stimuli that brought them to commit genocide and arson. One is a Dreadlord and the other a NE captain.

Decision? Split second one? No reinforcements for Night Elves, defenders defeated, leader of Night Elves said: "Fck this shit im outta here, i hope occupation won't be so hard for you". Darnassus basically surrendered so idk how was she pushed to make decision in "split second".
Mal'Ganis was turning his people into undead, Delarys was shittalking her, how is that so comparable?

[sam86]

not even close, Stratholme what Arthas did was 100% right, the problem was he was forced to carry all that guilt alone, Uther and Jaina should helped him not make him doubt it even more
On other hand blizz say that burning innocent civilian women and children alive is 'morally grey', there are many tyrannical regimes - specially egypt - who support that idea, but i fail to find an actual decent human being consider that 'morally grey'

and i wonder if u trolling or not after reading many comments

[kasuke06]

So how would you have handled Stratholme?

Block it off, let groups of adventurers in 5 at a time.

[MikeBogina]

Neither did anything wrong. Stratholme would have been a massive scourge army that would have spread out to all the surrounding lands, no matter how anyone tries to claim otherwise, Arthas Did Nothing Wrong!

Sylvanas found a world tree infested with a bunch of parasites and did the right thing in burning it! JK all jokes aside, Teldrassil is a military target and after how she was recently attacked by the Alliance and Worgen leader Genn, she has every right to want to remove the Alliance presence from Kalimdor(The Night Elves have every right to defend themselves too). I would have personally preferred her to have crushed their army and give the Alliance a heads up on the burning of the tree because then she truly is in the right, but still all of this could have been avoided if Genn didn't attack her in Stormheim.

Also we still have an Old God and a Nightmare Lord who keeps coming back, Teldrassil is just a huge liability until the Old God threat is removed.

[KaPe]

Block it off, let groups of adventurers in 5 at a time.

I realize that this is a "joke", but still.

If you actually let Mal'ganis win the map in W3, you'll be overrun by a huge army of Scourge and freshly risen citizens. Any attempt at blockade would have ended the same way. This was not just some random group of peasants, but a Dreadlord actively speeding up the process.

[vertigo12]

So how would you have handled Stratholme?

Burn it.I said burn it!

[bloodmoth13]

Sylvanas never had a reason to torch the night elves capital. hell she didnt even have a reason to kill malfurion, nothing she did made any sense from any perspective. her character was written out of the story and blizz decided she was the next guldan, she is a hollow empty shell of what she once was and her sole purpose is to move the plot forward, nothing more.

Arthas had justification, his path was morally grey, the citizens were already dead, and without intervention, would be dead regardless. the purge was necessary, they had no time, there were no other solutions. it was a shit choice at a shit time. he could have listened to medivh but he had no reason to trust him, he did the best he could with the knowledge he had.

even if arthas's decision was wrong, he still atleast justified it to himself, sylvanas couldnt even do that.

Ugh... if they had have just done battle for lordaeron first this might have been a compelling question.

[ausoin]

Neither did anything wrong. Stratholme would have been a massive scourge army that would have spread out to all the surrounding lands, no matter how anyone tries to claim otherwise, Arthas Did Nothing Wrong!

Sylvanas found a world tree infested with a bunch of parasites and did the right thing in burning it! JK all jokes aside, Teldrassil is a military target and after how she was recently attacked by the Alliance and Worgen leader Genn, she has every right to want to remove the Alliance presence from Kalimdor(The Night Elves have every right to defend themselves too). I would have personally preferred her to have crushed their army and give the Alliance a heads up on the burning of the tree because then she truly is in the right, but still all of this could have been avoided if Genn didn't attack her in Stormheim.

Also we still have an Old God and a Nightmare Lord who keeps coming back, Teldrassil is just a huge liability until the Old God threat is removed.

A city with no actually military isnt a military target. Burning a city full of civilians hoping to kill those civilians and nobody else and calling it "not wrong at all" is mindblowing.
If Varian butchered the elves in Quelthalas because the orcs attacted his forces in Northrend when whey were fighting the Scourge, can that be described as doing no wrong at all? After all that orc commander got away with it scoot free expect some angry comments like Genn.

but still all of this could have been avoided if Genn didn't attack her in Stormheim.

Lol, Sylvanas planned to destroy Stormwind and raise its population as the undead long long before Stormheim. Syvlanas wanted war. And in " A good war", she knew Teldrassil will burn one day even before she fought Malfurion.

Also we still have an Old God and a Nightmare Lord who keeps coming back, Teldrassil is just a huge liability until the Old God threat is removed.

And the Blood elves might one day go back to fel addiction so lets kill their entire race then, the orcs might again be enslaved by some evil force, might as well wipe out their entire race, nothting wrong with that, right? Seriously the lenghts some people will go...

[Malikath]

no, because we learn that becoming undead means you will go straight to "hell"(the shadowlands) when you die.
so arthas is entirely justified in saving if not their lives then at least some of their souls by killing them before they turn, meanwhile sylvanus is practically dragging everyone to hell to save herself.

[vertigo12]

A city with no actually military isnt a military target. Burning a city full of civilians hoping to kill those civilians and nobody else and calling it "not wrong at all" is mindblowing.
If Varian butchered the elves in Quelthalas because the orcs attacted his forces in Northrend when whey were fighting the Scourge, can that be described as doing no wrong at all? After all that orc commander got away with it scoot free expect some angry comments like Genn.



Lol, Sylvanas planned to destroy Stormwind and raise its population as the undead long long before Stormheim. Syvlanas wanted war. And in " A good war", she knew Teldrassil will burn one day even before she fought Malfurion.



And the Blood elves might one day go back to fel addiction so lets kill their entire race then, the orcs might again be enslaved by some evil force, might as well wipe out their entire race, nothting wrong with that, right? Seriously the lenghts some people will go...

Sylvanas is a tactician and a strategist:
- They were able to come up with a plan to let Alliance report false intel from their espionage and made a wrong military decision to let Darnassian force head to Silithus and they were so complacent leaving Darkshore without enough defense.
- Sylvanas knew the repercussion of her actions, she knew they will get after her once she let loose her provocative plan and it did. Thus Battle for Lordaeron ensued. Alliance leaders trapped, Jaina has her spotlight moments.
- She definitely knew that Burning a tree would cause the other to retaliate and she is definitely aware that the Alliance would let their citizens escape and become refugees of war. As to how many would,should or could survive that leads to the capacity of the Alliance. There are certain holes that the Alliance fail to exert with all their capability and capacity as a whole. But for dramatic effect, they more innocent people dead the more evocative the response would be. So it is.

[ausoin]

Sylvanas is a tactician and a strategist:
- They were able to come up with a plan to let Alliance report false intel from their espionage and made a wrong military decision to let Darnassian force head to Silithus and they were so complacent leaving Darkshore without enough defense.
- Sylvanas knew the repercussion of her actions, she knew they will get after her once she let loose her provocative plan and it did. Thus Battle for Lordaeron ensued. Alliance leaders trapped, Jaina has her spotlight moments.
- She definitely knew that Burning a tree would cause the other to retaliate and she is definitely aware that the Alliance would let their citizens escape and become refugees of war. As to how many would,should or could survive that leads to the capacity of the Alliance. There are certain holes that the Alliance fail to exert with all their capability and capacity as a whole. But for dramatic effect, they more innocent people dead the more evocative the response would be. So it is.

IMO burning the tree was a mistake, the Alliance wouldn't have been able to move against any Horde targets because the majority of Kaldorei race would be hostages to the Horde. By burning it's she created thousands of matrys and a war where the enemy will go down fighting to the last man for they know what will happen if they surrender.

[habitsbreaker]

Nothing garrosh did was more evil that what sylvanes did, so if anyone try to justify burning the tree, then they have no right to criticize what garosh did

[Deleted]

Did you forgot Jaina genocide to horde mages on Dalaran? After that se would to do another genocide in Orgrimmar..

She only killed those who attacked her, all other Blood Elves where imprisoned due to suspiciouns that the Sunreavers were supporters of Garrosh, a declared enemy of Dalaran which even Aethas approved. It is more comparable to the internment of the japanese in WW2, which was not okay in itself, but not comparable to stuff like Ausschwitz. Just like the Purge of Dalaran ist not comparable to the burning of Teldrassil. Not to forget that Jaina planned to commit a genocide on Orgrimmar, but in the end decided by her own will, not by force, against it. Comparing Jaina with Sylvanas ist not an argument in this discussion but more an indicator for some kind of intellectual or moral disfunction on your part, as you clearly lack the ability to compare the scale and moral implication of those events.

And what is with Horde Fanboys trying to justify Genocide because it is militarily beneficial? No, it isn't, it makes the Horde Fanboys look like a bunch of sociopaths or idiots who lack either the ability to morally judge crimes or the ability to consume a story and judge it morally without the morals being directly showed in your face. Or Alternatively as if the Horde is a faction that is predominantly appealing to people with certain political believes, looking at the immense glorification of militarism and warcrimes at the Horde Fanbase.

Infracted.