Damage and Healing need to be merged into Spell Power

[Gaidax]

No, it's 1.13 with a 7.3.5 code base, try again.

You are just trolling for the sake of trolling, that's it.

They are remaking 1.12 and this is what community demands, not some bullshit version with lopsided class balance and gearing that is nothing like vanilla was.

[Sencha]

Yeah let's streamline the game already... Next is to merge strength/agility/intelligence because it's just 'power'...

No.

[Zka]

Thats why people get 2 hours of gear trade window, right?

No, that happens because Blizz does not want to spend resources (money) on customer support of bullshit looting issues.

[andrewjoy]

No.

There is healing gear and Damage and healing gear .

DPS gear increases healing but healing gear does not increase damage.

Healers can wear a few DPS items to boost there dps and should be doing so in solo. Disc for example wants some crit ( that comes form dps gear) for the armour buff for tanks when a heal crits.

I know gearing will be confising for people who found reforge all complex and hard but you just have to get good.

[Morssoe]

How you guys can turn "wanting vanilla" to something where there are tons of changes.

[scart35]

In case you missed the memo, Vanilla did NOT have the 2 hour trade window, Classic will have it, so "absolutely... vanilla... no changes.. at all." is already a moot point.

yeah...you played yourself

[Deleted]

I wonder if you guys go to museum (nah i know you don't btu still.) and ask to change stuff from the past to be more pleasant to you.?

[Deleted]

This one was actually a much requested change during vanilla. Now people who play healers can get to requesting it again once Classic launches.

[satella]

No.

There is healing gear and Damage and healing gear .

DPS gear increases healing but healing gear does not increase damage.

Healers can wear a few DPS items to boost there dps and should be doing so in solo. Disc for example wants some crit ( that comes form dps gear) for the armour buff for tanks when a heal crits.

I know gearing will be confising for people who found reforge all complex and hard but you just have to get good.

I'm not going to be playing a hybrid anyway, but it's a good change for them, since almost all the Tier 3 pieces are BiS along with set bonuses, and the pures have a mechanical advantage along with a huge gearing advantage. This would alleviate the problems from gearing advantage slightly, although they would get no set bonuses for damage anyway.

Having to accrue 2 gear sets to be able to grind at 50-70% efficiency (and having to change talents) compared to a pure is the reason some people are going Warrior, Mage, Warlock, Hunter or Rogue.

Either that or you level up a hybrid and a pure strictly for grinding.

Back then, people didn't know this, and they were stuck with the classes they picked in the beginning, since leveling and gearing up took such a long time.

[Deleted]

I don't understand people. You want classic but not really classic. Why the fuck do you want it in the first place if you want the fuck modified out of it?

[andrewjoy]

I'm not going to be playing a hybrid anyway, but it's a good change for them, since almost all the Tier 3 pieces are BiS along with set bonuses, and the pures have a mechanical advantage along with a huge gearing advantage. This would alleviate the problems from gearing advantage slightly, although they would get no set bonuses for damage anyway.

Having to accrue 2 gear sets to be able to grind at 50-70% efficiency (and having to change talents) compared to a pure is the reason some people are going Warrior, Mage, Warlock, Hunter or Rogue.

Either that or you level up a hybrid and a pure strictly for grinding.

Back then, people didn't know this, and they were stuck with the classes they picked in the beginning, since leveling and gearing up took such a long time.

You know its not like current wow right ? A resto druid gets almost all the bear cat and balance skills and can use them whenever they want. Sure your not 100% effective but druid is one of the best solo classes! For healing casters you have to get some offspec gear yes but you can still pick up some DPS talents etc. Dont forget its not all chuckles and sunshine for pure DPS ether, almost no dps classes had healing to speak of.

You could do something super controversial and play with other humans... is that not the point of an MMO after all ? Healer + warrior is a unstoppable levelling and farming comp.

[satella]

You know its not like current wow right ? A resto druid gets almost all the bear cat and balance skills and can use them whenever they want. Sure your not 100% effective but druid is one of the best solo classes! For healing casters you have to get some offspec gear yes but you can still pick up some DPS talents etc. Dont forget its not all chuckles and sunshine for pure DPS ether, almost no dps classes had healing to speak of.

You could do something super controversial and play with other humans... is that not the point of an MMO after all ? Healer + warrior is a unstoppable levelling and farming comp.

You have a point there, it is an MMO after all. I guess having to find people to befriend is a major part of the game

[Gavll]

Thats why people get 2 hours of gear trade window, right?

We'll see if that actually makes it into the game

[Improtaight]

I want classic as it was. The down side is healers will be able to do insane damage and healing..

yes, that's one of the downsides... out of many, Vanilla as it was , is crap.
people are going to get sick of the grind and the fact that it was good because it was new, nothing more nothing less.

[Sencha]

yes, that's one of the downsides... out of many, Vanilla as it was , is crap.
people are going to get sick of the grind and the fact that it was good because it was new, nothing more nothing less.

What grind are you talking about? There is far more grind in current WoW than in vanilla.

[Deleted]

Off Topic... Next Watercooler Ion should ask the community if Personal Loot should be added to Classic.

On Topic... While I appreciate the spirit of the OP's proposal the dominoes it tips over would be way too much.

Oh fuck me with a cactus please don't.

[Eapoe]

Blizzard in multiple interviews and Q&As already said they want to keep it as authentic as possible, which means no changes. They are going as far as changing color of lights from random lanterns from purple to their original color of vanilla. There is no way they'll change how stats work or make any class changes.

The only things that aren't exactly like vanilla are:
1)The release schedule of content. Like Dire Maul opening same time as onyxia, and ZG coming out same time as BWL and Battlegrounds.

2)There might be some sharding in starting zones for first week of classic to help with server loads due to everyone just trying the game since its part of regular sub.

3)Loot trading is possible without having to gm ticket, which is them just trying to save money on customer support, and to avoid long waits for gm tickets to be answered.

4). Starting at 1.12 at release and upsetting the balance of how things really worked during early dungeon/raid runs.
5). Color blind mode.
6). Anything else upcoming that hasn’t been announced.
Face it, you’re getting Classic, not Vanilla.

[AwkwardSquirtle]

That's a pretty significant change. Classes no longer being forced into a role is a fairly significant change to how things were. It also affects who's competing for what gear, which matters more when there are 40 people in a group. Items that were previously for healers suddenly become relevant to DPS classes. This might throw off balance if a few items end up being super good for magi or warlocks once they gain what was previously healing as SP, then suddenly 10 magi can kill Ragnaros in 10 seconds.

[Fitsu]

If you look at this item
https://classicdb.ch/?item=22631
It is one of the few items that has increased healing while also having damage.

In the 1.12.1 item budget, 10 Damage and Healing is equal to around 18 Healing.

If we take the Shaman Tier 1 set for example.
https://classicdb.ch/?itemset=207
The legs, gloves and bracers all have Damage and Healing, while the rest has only Healing.

It's not a huge change, but it would allow Paladins, Druids, Shamans and Priests more freedom in gear selection.
Lets face it, they barely had a clue regarding the item budgets and stat allocation in Vanilla, they were always changing things around and in later patches had to give casters more Spell Damage items, since most only had basic attributes.

They fixed these problems in TBC by making more than one version of some class sets, but I don't think that is really needed.

We all know hybrids do not have the capability to compete with the pures in regards to damage, so giving them items that can be used for both healing and damage won't break anything.

Since the technology is already in the 7.3.5 base, it would be really easy to merge it into a single Spell Power stat, and have the spell coefficients work off that.

I don't really see a downside to this, but I'm guessing someone does, so please enlighten me with some good arguments against it, or just tell me how much you like the idea.

EDIT:

A very good point is healers being overpowered in PvP, I have a very simple solution to that.

A shaman could attune himself to healing, like a sacred oath, so he gets very limited damage from Spell Power and increased healing.
A shaman that attunes himself to damage would get the regular damage and healing.

It would allow hybrids to use their best items (Tier 3 pieces) for something other than healing.

The problem with the notion of "I don't see a problem with this so why not" is that spreads to hundreds of changes...

Bug Fixes
Class Balancing (80% of classes are useless, fire mages did 5x the dps #2 in Naxx but useless in MC because of fire res etc.)
Gear balancing as a whole, as you said the stats in Classic for the most part were a mess with lv 30 trinks being BiS etc.
Fix Graphical Glitches
QoL Changes (Food Conjuring, AoE buffing, Warlock Shard farming etc.)

The list goes on about a whole bunch of things that could be done that would arguably improve the game with almost no down side, but then is it Classic anymore? Like you said "the technology is already in 7.3.5 base" but then if you simply bring tech down from 7.3.5 where do u stop?

I say the people want Classic, so give them Classic. Ridiculous broken content and all. Then do a OSRS style system where the community can vote for what changes they want implemented, I honestly think that system is a stroke of genius on OSRS front and something that Classic could implement with great success.

In terms of the actual change, any stat changes could put balancing out of whack and would be more work than simply bringing i down. It'd require a re-balance PvE, PvP and Classes.

[Deleted]

Your suggestion already exists, though. Damage & Healing is quite literally todays spell power, it's just that we have other options as well. If you want to be able to damage and heal in the same gear, get the gear made for it, then there's only healing gear because that's tailored specifically for healing, sacrifice offense for better defense.
And then further specializing with fire/shadow/frost damage etc.