Why is anime not more intensely monitored by law enforcement?

[SirKickBan]

@SirKickBan

So if pedophiles are using anime as an outlet for their sexual fantasies but not harming anyone in real life, then they should be left alone? We really can't just arrest people knowing they are pedophiles under the excuse they haven't harmed anyone real?

Yes. We can't arrest people for being pedophiles, because that isn't a crime, it's a medical condition. The legal terms for the two requirements of a crime are "Mens rea" and "Actus rea", the guilty act, and the guilty mind, without both of which, there is no crime. ...I did not mean for that to rhyme.

..Or that. Moving on!

If they haven't harmed anyone, then they've committed no more crime than someone imagining committing a murder.

[YUPPIE]

Replace pedophile with murder and ask yourself the same question...

You can't pre-arrest someone, they have to commit a crime.

and viewing the most explicit horrors in animated form will never amount to a crime?

Honestly, I obviously have no power to change this but it's just so supremely messed up when you know what's out there.

[PC2]

@SirKickBan

So if pedophiles are using anime as an outlet for their sexual fantasies but not harming anyone in real life, then they should be left alone? We really can't just arrest people knowing they are pedophiles under the excuse they haven't harmed anyone real?

Yes, the law is based on financial damage, physical harm, violating consent, or premeditation to do so. If you take those factors out then there is no crime.

[nyc81991]

Yes its really ok because its fictional.

It also falls under Freedom of Speech.

This.

People are so damn sensitive these days to the point of wanting everything censored and banned.

[Gasparde]

It's ok to not like something. It's ok to be offended by something. But neither of those should result is the creator being punished as long as no one is actually hurt because of said works creation. And I don't mean that reading/viewing it hurt your feelings or some shit, I mean actual people were hurt during its creation. That is the reason child pornography is illegal. Not because of the people who are watching it, because real children were abused in order to make it. And again, you cannot molest a cartoon.

It's not about hurt feelings or anything like that. Are you actually suggesting that people should be fine if tomorrow we had a movie with real actors portraying sex with minors (edited in via CGI or what not) just because they didn't actually physically have sex with minors? Even worse, if the movie actively portrayed this as something normal, good and totally acceptable?

This is 100% about the message these stories are sending. The government should step in if you create a fictional story where the white race is burning every black person alive for being the inferior race and everyone is applauding for it, that's not a message anyone should want to send. There needs to be a line somewhere.

We, as a society, have decided that it's completely fine to mindlessly kill thousands of people every day on our computer screens. But at the same time, we as a society have made it abundantly clear that we don't want people to kill those thousands of people because of their inferior race. We, as a society, have decided that it's okay to talk, show and practice sex in any way, shape or form and that it's completely fine to do so. But at the same time the same society says that practicing sex with underage persons is a no-go. Again, why is a comic about killing people because they're of an inferior race a possible problem, but an anime about people fucking girls because they look like they're 8 shouldn't be considered problematic?

[Jtbrig7390]

and viewing the most explicit horrors in animated form will never amount to a crime?

Honestly, I obviously have no power to change this but it's just so supremely messed up when you know what's out there.

Your question is the same one that has been said about video games.

"Does anime cause violence"
"Does video games cause violence"

No matter how many times this question is reworded the answer will always be the same and that answer is a NO. There is always a underline issue that leads to if any violence and not the content (Anime/Games) itself.

"Does _____ cause violence" fill in the blank and the answer is still a No.

[Better]

Madthad0890. The person wanted proof of the possibility of the lingering obscenity of anime causing people to harm others in reality, and this is one of the premiere examples and moderately known.

Let's also not forget 4chan as a site was founded and endures on the entire premise of this thread. Said site's enduring existence is a major reason I think law enforcement doesn't care much at all.

I never really understood the whole "4chan is some super evil boogieman" thing that some people on the internet seem to believe. It's basically just a forum with looser rules in general, and no accounts. If you don't go the the site it's existence shouldn't affect you at all.

[Biomega]

Key words here being probably and almost non-existent.
I agree that it seems rather silly that people living in a world where there's people murdering each other with dozens of boobs wobbling around on prime time TV are complaining about cartoons where weird looking characters have sex with each other. The problem are the implications, doesn't matter if they're only fictional.

We don't have primetime TV shows where it's portrayed as completely normal for characters to only go for girls who looks as if they were only 10 years old. Yet in anime or manga culture that is actually... rather frequent. It's the implication of it being perfectly normal to like women or men who look like they're only 12 years old that's the problem. We can't know what consequences these implications have for sure. I'm not saying that everyone who likes this kind of lolicon whateverness subconsciuosly turns into a pedophile, but fact of the matter is that we simply can't tell for sure if it doesn't do that to at least... some people. Simply putting it off and ridiculing the idea of closely monitoring such stories because 'it's my free speech, it's only fictional, it's just fantasy' is a dangerous and hugely arrogant mindset.

And yet we find it totally okay that a HUGE number of movies, TV series and video games are normalizing violent solutions and killing people for all sorts of mundane reasons.

I'm not saying that sexualizing 12-year olds is okay, either in fiction or in fact. I'm saying that singling out sexual content for regulation is hypocritical in the face of violence contents, which are not only more prevalent but also more impactful on actual criminal behaviors.

Most sexual abuse of minors is entirely independent from manga/anime, and the vast vast VAST majority of it is perpetrated by people who have never read a manga or watched an anime in their life. The number of cases where manga/anime were linked to sexual offenses against minor is minuscule, whereas there has been a considerable number of cases of either inferred or explicit (usually self-confessed) violence following consumption of violent materials in the US alone (let alone the rest of the world) - and even those are fairly infrequent. The most common influences remain outside of the realm of fiction, and involve actual experienced reality instead. It's just that nobody talks about the usual, and focuses on the unusual - that's why it's headlines when someone plays Call of Duty and then goes on a shooting spree, but someone who's been abused physically and emotionally for years then turning violent is not a shock to anyone; even though (or: because) the latter is a much, much more common pattern than the former.

So IF you decide to ban something, ban according to the statistical evidence. Not according to a sense of morality, which is what's behind the whole anti-sex sentiment that underpins this debate. I think that reducing things to a relativism where somehow you can say whether sexual abuse of a child is "better" or "worse" than murdering an adult is an ethical trap. It leads to agenda-/ideology-driven reactions (or non-reactions) and that, ultimately, is a disservice to the victim in either case.

[Jtbrig7390]

We, as a society,

We as a society (at lease in the US) have decided that we value freedom's more then someones feels. That's why Freedom of Expression is protected.

Someone drawing stick figures fucking doesn't effect you.

[PC2]

Again, why is a comic about killing people because they're of an inferior race a possible problem,

Who said that was a legal problem though? It may be mean but it's not a legal issue.

[YUPPIE]

I never really understood the whole "4chan is some super evil boogieman" thing that some people on the internet seem to believe. It's basically just a forum with looser rules in general, and no accounts. If you don't go the the site it's existence shouldn't affect you at all.

off-topic but 4chan promotes pedophilia, violence against women, and political terrorism. It's honestly baffling it hasn't been targetted for termination or even remotely considered for that. It was supposedly originally founded on discussion for anime no less.

I do know it is monitored well from the shadows, but why not just take it down outright than preserve it?

[Underverse]

It's not about hurt feelings or anything like that. Are you actually suggesting that people should be fine if tomorrow we had a movie with real actors portraying sex with minors (edited in via CGI or what not) just because they didn't actually physically have sex with minors? Even worse, if the movie actively portrayed this as something normal, good and totally acceptable?

This is 100% about the message these stories are sending. The government should step in if you create a fictional story where the white race is burning every black person alive for being the inferior race and everyone is applauding for it, that's not a message anyone should want to send. There needs to be a line somewhere.

We, as a society, have decided that it's completely fine to mindlessly kill thousands of people every day on our computer screens. But at the same time, we as a society have made it abundantly clear that we don't want people to kill those thousands of people because of their inferior race. We, as a society, have decided that it's okay to talk, show and practice sex in any way, shape or form and that it's completely fine to do so. But at the same time the same society says that practicing sex with underage persons is a no-go. Again, why is a comic about killing people because they're of an inferior race a possible problem, but an anime about people fucking girls because they look like they're 8 shouldn't be considered problematic?

I agree with the premise here. I suppose, what would the action taken be? If considered crimes, they would be victimless, and amount to cultural policing.

And on that note, there's a mechanism in place to police culture already, and that's basically platforming. As in, ideas need platforms in order to be heard, and as long as a vast majority thinks about an issue in one direction, platforms going the other direction won't really exist or will be ignored.

I could imagine instituting a law that punishes producers for creating content that is directly and causatively linked to crime - because that's all we're really concerned about, right? The evidence required to prove a causative link sounds impossibly high, though.

[Jtbrig7390]

off-topic but 4chan promotes pedophilia, violence against women, and political terrorism. It's honestly baffling it hasn't been targetted for termination or even remotely considered for that. It was supposedly originally founded on discussion for anime no less.

You can promote whatever you want, Your actions on the other hand is what commits the crime.

Like seriously are you just choosing to be ignorant about this now or what?

- - - Updated - - -

Just remember that Genn and Tennis are perma-banned but OP for some reason is allowed to stay, even when all they do is make bait threads.

Right......

[Underverse]

And yet we find it totally okay that a HUGE number of movies, TV series and video games are normalizing violent solutions and killing people for all sorts of mundane reasons.

I'm not saying that sexualizing 12-year olds is okay, either in fiction or in fact. I'm saying that singling out sexual content for regulation is hypocritical in the face of violence contents, which are not only more prevalent but also more impactful on actual criminal behaviors.

Most sexual abuse of minors is entirely independent from manga/anime, and the vast vast VAST majority of it is perpetrated by people who have never read a manga or watched an anime in their life. The number of cases where manga/anime were linked to sexual offenses against minor is minuscule, whereas there has been a considerable number of cases of either inferred or explicit (usually self-confessed) violence following consumption of violent materials in the US alone (let alone the rest of the world) - and even those are fairly infrequent. The most common influences remain outside of the realm of fiction, and involve actual experienced reality instead. It's just that nobody talks about the usual, and focuses on the unusual - that's why it's headlines when someone plays Call of Duty and then goes on a shooting spree, but someone who's been abused physically and emotionally for years then turning violent is not a shock to anyone; even though (or: because) the latter is a much, much more common pattern than the former.

So IF you decide to ban something, ban according to the statistical evidence. Not according to a sense of morality, which is what's behind the whole anti-sex sentiment that underpins this debate. I think that reducing things to a relativism where somehow you can say whether sexual abuse of a child is "better" or "worse" than murdering an adult is an ethical trap. It leads to agenda-/ideology-driven reactions (or non-reactions) and that, ultimately, is a disservice to the victim in either case.

I don't think bans are the right way forward here. It becomes very hard to define which material is acceptable and which isn't. Would you use eye to skull ratios or something?

Making producers of content liable for criminal behavior if it's shown to be causative is an interesting idea and worth exploring, but might be similarly restrictive.

[Usagi Senshi]

If you don't mind torture, rape and... snuff, you're in for a good time

JK, it doesn't happen as much as people make it out.

"But, but you're promoting and agreeing with rape culture if you enjoy that series!"

Goddamn sjws....

[PC2]

Just remember that Genn and Tennis are perma-banned but OP for some reason is allowed to stay, even when all they do is make bait threads.

Perma-banned for what? I remember Tennis making a lot of ad hominem posts about people being Islamophobic and all the -isms. Where as Tsugunai at least does want to discuss the topic.

[Zantos]

so just because it's fictional, no matter how obscene or horrifying, it's all good? Isn't there something wrong with that? By your logic, that means you can simultaneously draw and write anything you want without retribution under the logic it's not real.

Family guy should be outlawed too then. It features a baby who murders people. THe simpsons should be illegal. Has kids running around doing all kinds of dangerous / illegal things. Same for south park. Kids swearing like sailors.

See how that works? Its a fictional drawing. That is why its not monitored. I would think they should go after games like Game of Thrones and Breaking Bad in that instance.

[Halyon]

Yes its really ok because its fictional.

It also falls under Freedom of Speech.

And freedom of expression in this case.

As much as anyone might dislike anime or manga with explicit material of any sort, it's non-consequential, so at best, it can be banned, fine, people who want it can still get it, albeit via illegal means. Nothing else need be done.

[YUPPIE]

I think what I take from this is the concept of freedom of speech should honestly be given some minor shackles. But people claim if you do this even slightly, you're apparently a dictator. So it's a no win situation.

[Zantos]

both and worse in that it is known this shit causes a certain amount of people to become disinterested in the real world.

You mean TV?