The Alliance is its own worst enemy

[etheldald]

Do you realize that they will keep attacking as soon the funeral ends right?
do you think that is a good idea while all the troll tribes are there and unite the entire troll empire against the alliance?

Anduin also avoids killing civilians to not prove sylvana's point, right now the horde is probably going to face another rebelion, all what the alliance needs to do is wait until they start killing each other.

If anduin attacks during the funeral, that rebellion probably wouldn't be as successful.
jaina also literally said that she would never become like arthas or garrosh.

and the alliance also had to recover as well.

Anduin then says that they will keep pushing towards victory. he is not stopping.

[Mehrunes]

By what? The Horde fleet on the other side of the world? They were to far out just like the Alliance fleet was during the War of Thorns.

The Horde didn't have many ships at Teldrassil. And they had ample time to prepare for Undercity because the Alliance didn't spontaneously teleport there the day after. How do you think the Orcs and Tauren got there? Walking on water across the ocean? Do you even think your arguments through?

Both sides were recruiting peasants for a long time. Alliance in Northrend comes to mind and the Horde have also been conscripting peasants and children since Cata or Mop, and Horde conspricts are part of the attack on Darkshore and soldiers like Zappy boi never even seen a battle before.

Do give a source for those peasants on the Horde side. In this war specifically. Because a new recruit isn't a peasant.

Because of Malfurion and Tyrande.

Did they join the Alliance only after Anduin remarked how the Alliance can't open the front in Darkshore? What's that? No, they didn't? And as such were already factored into Alliance's current power when Anduin made that remark?

[Fewane]

No one remembers that because Blizzard explicitly said that their promised fist-pumping moment for Alliance in MoP was Purge of Dalaran.

Rrgh. That was when I put my alliance alts on hold in play for quite a time. Jarred me straight out of my feeling on what playing Alliance should feel like.

When playing Alliance, I don't want the same experience as when playing Horde with Sylvanas being on an extra-genocidal mood.

[valis]

Rrgh. That was when I put my alliance alts on hold in play for quite a time. Jarred me straight out of my feeling on what playing Alliance should feel like.

When playing Alliance, I don't want the same experience as when playing Horde with Sylvanas being on an extra-genocidal mood.

Yep, i don't get why people think an Alliance that acts like the Horde would be more interesting. Telling the same story / having the same charakters just with other painting is more boring. If you have to Factions then they should be different.

[rogueMatthias]

No, Blizzard is the Alliances worst enemy.
I'm getting tired of this crap and having to try and justify lore all the time.

[Malikath]

No, Blizzard is the Alliances worst enemy.
I'm getting tired of this crap and having to try and justify lore all the time.

pretty much, this.
the alliance could have the argent crusade, the ebon blade, the scourge the vindicaar, the wild gods, the naaru, and the fucking titans.
it doesn't matter when plot armor forces them to bow to the walking idiot ball that anduin has been made into.

frankly, it's time for this world to burn.

[WolfRider]

Genn Graymane about Rastakhan's death :" a casualty of war".
WAIT WHAT???

So now he's okay with killing people "not yet engaged in war". So he can't reproach his son's death to Sylvanas anymore, because it was a casualty of war after all!

[rogueMatthias]

The Horde didn't have many ships at Teldrassil. And they had ample time to prepare for Undercity because the Alliance didn't spontaneously teleport there the day after. How do you think the Orcs and Tauren got there? Walking on water across the ocean? Do you even think your arguments through?

Horde didn't need more soldiers there. If Jaina hadnt magically turned up more op than ever, Sylvanas would have wiped out the entire Alliance army and it's whole leadership with blight before they even broke through the gates.

That's how fucking retarded the Alliance is in this game.

Not to mention that we only even got to Sylvanas now because of the Hordes mercy and Saurafang letting Anduin survive. The whole army couldn't even take an Orc.

[Malikath]

"not yet engaged in war"

i take it you weren't around for cata/mop, so kindly take your ignorance and stow it.
during cata rastakhan charged zul with finding new homeland since his visions were beginning to annoy him, to this end zul reunited the trolls save for the darkspear and waged war against the alliance and horde.

in mop they resurrected the moju emperor lei shen and once again waged war upon the combined forces of the horde and the alliance.

- - - Updated - - -

Blizz needs to pull an orgrim on Anduin. Have him killed and someone else with a spine take over.

i wasn't aware a back-stabbing coward who can't even take the horde by mak'gora has a spine?

[Beerbill Society]

If we consider alliance always had the power to stomp the horde but never did, it becomes obvious that alliance is the only thing stopping alliance to do that.

- - - Updated - - -

Genn Graymane about Rastakhan's death :" a casualty of war".
WAIT WHAT???

So now he's okay with killing people "not yet engaged in war". So he can't reproach his son's death to Sylvanas anymore, because it was a casualty of war after all!

Lol that's just stupid. Perhaps he realized that his son was a casualty, even if it's debatable that Gilneas and the Forsaken were at 'War' and not some coward invasion, but that doesn't nullify his right to be upset about someone that killed his children.

As a strategist he understand, doesn't mean he forgives.

Just like Zandalari will hardly forgive alliance part in their King death, even though they became a target themselves allying with a faction actively in War.

[Deleted]

Genn Graymane about Rastakhan's death :" a casualty of war".
WAIT WHAT???

So now he's okay with killing people "not yet engaged in war". So he can't reproach his son's death to Sylvanas anymore, because it was a casualty of war after all!

What you seem to have issues grasping is the difference between:
- being at war with the alliance
and
- being at war with the alliance cause they are part of the horde.

The former is the case... and was ever since their blockade of ships destroyed 6 of the 7 ships sent after Tanaji's ship.

[Malikath]

If we consider alliance always had the power to stomp the horde but never did, it becomes obvious that alliance is the only thing stopping alliance to do that.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/IdiotBall
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PlotArmor
beware, before you lies the abyss.
many have entered, never again to return.

[Mehrunes]

Meanwhile, let me emphasize how all of this makes no sense. The Alliance complains about the lack of soldiers. Meanwhile, we don't hear a thing about it from the Horde, and at the same time, they're supposedly close to being defeated. Nathanos is busy ressurecting Dark Rangers at Darkshore, but there hasn't been a huge number of willing undead fighters employed everywhere, so it doesn't look like this is a very common tactic.

Logically, Horde should be running out of soldiers as well. Not only they have not been shown achieving major victories without any losses, but their starting numbers *should* have been lower. This was always a faction of survivors. Few boats of trolls and orcs. Tauren tribe nearly wiped out by centaurs. Decimated remains of high elves and Lordaeron undead.

Baine is the one who should be whining about running out of warriors, not Anduin - or at very least, both of them.

Yeah, no. That "few boats of Orcs" contained so many Orcs that Blackmoore planned to overthrow the entire Alliance of Lordaeron (after Silvermoon, Stromgarde and Gilneas left) with them. And succeeded in an AU where he stopped drinking and actually started to train them for that purpose. And that was just internment camps' Orcs alone. Entire clans like Warsong and Frostwolves haven't been captured. They also joined the New Horde. Since then almost every remaining Orc group also joined them (though many of those later additions followed Garrosh to the grave).

Tauren tribe decimated by the Centaurs then went on to unite all Tauren tribes in Kalimdor after they took Mulgore.

Lordaeron undead consisted of half of Scourge forces in Lordaeron, after Arthas turned almost the entirety of Lordaeron state (strongest human nation), 90% of High Elves, some people from Alterac, Gilneas, Stromgarde and also some Dwarven and Gnome reinforcements.

Meanwhile the strongest Alliance nation now is Stormwind. A nation so pitiful that despite around 3000 years of peace and prosperity that should have allowed them to develop into an actual powerhouse, they were nearly wiped out by the Gnolls less than a hundred years ago. Gnolls. Then during Varian's grandfather's reign they were nearly wiped out by the shattered remnant of the Gurrubashi. Then during Varian's father's reign they were flattened by the Horde. The strongest Alliance nation is a joke that couldn't even handle Gnolls and then in the last few generations prior to WoW suffered multiple cases of getting either almost steamrolled or outright getting steamrolled.

[KaPe]

Not to mention that we only even got to Sylvanas now because of the Hordes mercy and Saurafang letting Anduin survive. The whole army couldn't even take an Orc.

That part was completely unneeded. I guess they planned the cinematic that way from the beginning, but really, what was the point? To prove Saurfang's "honor"? The only thing it proves that Anduin is even more useless than we thought. When did he become a front line fighter, charging right into the fray to get himself killed? He should have known long ago that he's not his father, who could fight Garrosh head on and win.

And this is the battle where the Alliance was supposedly "serious". So serious that they almost lost their leader after a single hit, just like that. Not that it would be a bad thing in the long run, but still.

[sam86]

Get genn to depose anduin

Do u really see Greymane different from Anduin this exp ? I know blizz ping pong characters a lot, but Genn is right now a worgen Anduin

At least Varian's origins and his change to a more noble warrior is more compelling than this shitlord Anduin.

Anduin at least is almost exact same personality since his introduction, he is naive peace lover, and still - strangely after all those events - naive peace lover, blizz ping pong him to 'priest who use plate armor and sword but not paladin' but at least personality Anduin didn't really change, a strange thing in compare to literally every other char blizz made mainstream

[Mehrunes]

Horde didn't need more soldiers there. If Jaina hadnt magically turned up more op than ever, Sylvanas would have wiped out the entire Alliance army and it's whole leadership with blight before they even broke through the gates.

That's how fucking retarded the Alliance is in this game.

Not to mention that we only even got to Sylvanas now because of the Hordes mercy and Saurafang letting Anduin survive. The whole army couldn't even take an Orc.

Yes, there's that. But I'm not talking about the Horde needing more soldiers. I'm talking about the fleet that was obviously there at Tirisfal because the Kalimdor Horde forces with Orcs and Tauren obviously had enough time to sail to Undercity before Alliance came for them. Not to mention the Forsaken and Thalassian navies that didn't really participate in War of Thorns. The Alliance, as established in A Good War, shouldn't even be able to land in Tirisfal with what the Horde already had there.

A Good War said that the Horde could potentially destroy Alliance navy at Stormwind, but that wouldn't be enough and they wouldn't be able to transport an army large enough for a successful siege.

So, two things arise from that.

First: if the Horde navy could defeat the Alliance navy even at Stormwind, with Alliance ground forces providing support bombardment with port's siege weapons and casters, then they sure as shit should had been able to defeat the Alliance navy when the roles were reversed and it was them that had home turf advantage (especially since their home turf advantage in this case involves bat riders and catapults throwing Blight at them).

Second: if the Horde navy, that was marginally stronger than the Alliance one, wasn't big enough to transport an army sufficient for a successful siege, then the same would have applied to the marginally weaker Alliance navy even if their passage to Tirisfal was uninterrupted. Especially since Tirisfal is a much more hostile environment for Alliance armies than Elwynn is for Horde armies.

With the faction balance prior to the war being portrayed as that, the Alliance forces should have been dead before they landed and even if Sylvanas didn't intercept them for some reason, they still shouldn't have been able to issue a successful siege (and as such, given how Sylvanas dragged most of Horde's forces to Tirisfal, they'd get consequently defeated by the Horde defenders). As such, by the time Jaina arrived the Alliance side of the front should already had been a graveyard.

But yes, Alliance also had monumental plot armor in that fight. First one are the siege towers of bullshit. You don't transport siege towers by sea, you construct them on the spot. Alliance even does that in Arathi during the warfront. No such thing has been observed in Undercity and the Alliance supposedly attacked shortly after arriving.

Secondly, then there's the Jaina thing. Then the fourth one is Anduin and his squad magically brushing off Sylvanas screaming at them even though as recently as Before the Storm Anduin commented that Sylvanas could kill him with her voice if she wanted to.

I left the third one for last because it's the most moronic and there is absolutely nothing excusing or explaining it. The thing about Alleria saving the day when Anduin and his squad run into Nathanos' and Lor'themar's forces in the rear of Lordaeron. Nathanos' and Lor'themar's forces with Blight. The same Blight that shortly before turned a significant part of the Alliance army into an art installation decorating the ground of Tirisfal.

The thing is, Alleria does nothing to render the Blight useless there, yet it's not used and doesn't do to the Alliance what it did just moments before. Because Alleria warps herself and her forces not on top of the Blight tanks or Blight-thrower forces for a surprise attack to take them out of equation before the fight starts. She warps in on top of Anduin, right in line of fire of the Blight. With no Jaina to save the day because she'd freeze Alliance forces too in that case. And Alliance somehow lived.

If we consider alliance always had the power to stomp the horde but never did, it becomes obvious that alliance is the only thing stopping alliance to do that.

And why should we consider that when Alliance has been consistently getting its ass kicked by the Horde and survived both of its war against them only because of internal turmoil within the Horde?

[Aucald]

i realize that.

however walking around with daddies sword in a war saying things like auntie dont add up.

It was a relatively private moment between the two once the other generals and advisers had walked away - not really a problem in my view. It just acknowledges that beneath the mantle of king Anduin is still just a young man, and he has a personal stake in the welfare of his adopted aunt.

[Vonazak]

Anduin is like Hannibal at the gates of Rome. He has THE opportunity to remove the Evil empire from the premises, but he cannot because "plot device" or lack of confidence.

i take it you weren't around for cata/mop, so kindly take your ignorance and stow it.
during cata rastakhan charged zul with finding new homeland since his visions were beginning to annoy him, to this end zul reunited the trolls save for the darkspear and waged war against the alliance and horde.

in mop they resurrected the moju emperor lei shen and once again waged war upon the combined forces of the horde and the alliance.

- - - Updated - - -



i wasn't aware a back-stabbing coward who can't even take the horde by mak'gora has a spine?

You know nothing about lore and you are just embarrassing yourself posting your fanfic. Rastakhan NEVER sent Zul on a mission, he just gave him some ships and troops to him and hoped he killed himself in the process. That was a good move, but failed, as the Horde and Alliance didnt kill Zul.

Do you realize that they will keep attacking as soon the funeral ends right?
do you think that is a good idea while all the troll tribes are there and unite the entire troll empire against the alliance?

Anduin also avoids killing civilians to not prove sylvana's point, right now the horde is probably going to face another rebelion, all what the alliance needs to do is wait until they start killing each other.

If anduin attacks during the funeral, that rebellion probably wouldn't be as successful.
jaina also literally said that she would never become like arthas or garrosh.

and the alliance also had to recover as well.

Anduin then says that they will keep pushing towards victory. he is not stopping.

Well, hello, my dear furry, i have not seen you before in these forums =*

[ausoin]

The Horde didn't have many ships at Teldrassil. And they had ample time to prepare for Undercity because the Alliance didn't spontaneously teleport there the day after. How do you think the Orcs and Tauren got there? Walking on water across the ocean? Do you even think your arguments through?




Do give a source for those peasants on the Horde side. In this war specifically. Because a new recruit isn't a peasant.




Did they join the Alliance only after Anduin remarked how the Alliance can't open the front in Darkshore? What's that? No, they didn't? And as such were already factored into Alliance's current power when Anduin made that remark?

Because the Horde was outnumbered so either the ships they brought were too few to transport a larger army maybe because it would have taken a lot of time and the Alliance fleet was already on seas and mobilised. Or they used one man at a time portals, and the evacuation prob slow down the soldier teleportation.


The Horde has been using peasants mearly years before and when they were stronger and still a superpower why would they stop now? Peasants once enlisted and trained somewhat also become new recruits all the same.

And Anduin doesn't know about the night warrior.

[etheldald]

Well, hello, my dear furry, i have not seen you before in these forums =*

Hello there, i don't post much often here, that's probably why .
but.. do i know you? apparently yes if you know what race is my character.