Macron.. Europe should build Army to protect itself from Russia, China & the USA ??

[Shalcker]

Well the US will do as they always do, show up very late for the game and claim to be responsible for victory

Even if it will be Russians winning as usual :P

[Slant]

The greatest and most dangerous achievement of Europe is that the generation that suffered the horrors of WW2 raised a generation that has had the concept of use of force purged from it so perfectly that modern Europeans are unprepared for dealing with opponents who still view use of military force as perfectly viable option.

I think you're underestimating European sentiments and mentality. We know that defense is needed. We just don't subscribe to the idea of conquest anymore. I know, it's shocking for some that Europe has actually stopped colonising other nations, but there you go, we evolved.

You can certainly try to attack us to test our resolve, though. Don't cry when we waste your capital city, however.

[Crispin]

Even if it will be Russians winning as usual :P

Like WW1? Ironic how Russia also came in late to WW2 and claims to be the victor

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Heh, that's a good one... You know, though, at least for our exits, we don't have to slow down to 80. I swear, I've never road raged, but Denmark got me close to it. 120, 80, 120, 80 every two kilometres... drove me insane, just let me drive one speed. PLEASE? And I had to drive my aunty to the ferry all the way up to the north of Denmark.

Believe me, when I got back to Germany, it was a blessing and I didn't get off the throttle for a long time, felt so good.

Oh I couldnt agree more, I drive through Germany 1 or 2 times a year, it's a blessing. Thoose roadworks tho :-|

[Shalcker]

Like WW1? Ironic how Russia also came in late to WW2 and claims to be the victor

Actually we were on winning side in WW1 as well. Government was too inept to hold out long enough to reap dividends from it though, and Bolsheviks promised peace as it was one of cornerstones of their propaganda within military so they couldn't wait either.

As for WW2 in Europe that is without any doubt primarily our victory - and everyone was well aware of that at the time.

[Crispin]

Actually you lost territory in WW1 and forfeited at best.

And as I said, late arrival in WW2 and claims to be the primary victor, like the US

[Mayhem]

Actually you lost territory in WW1 and forfeited at best.

And as I said, late arrival in WW2 and claims to be the primary victor, like the US

Someone sometime will have to explain to me why the victors of war have to lie themselves into feeling better about their victory. Makes no sense to me.

[Mayhem]

Funny you say that. I didn't see Denmark pulling up any trees in WW2 so keep quiet. America might of arrived late but they turned the tide including the Russians. They did their part and sacrficed alot of men protecting Europe.

So pipe down.

Hi burner account. o/

[Shalcker]

Actually you lost territory in WW1 and forfeited at best.

That was result of peace deal by Bolsheviks who wanted to rush it.

We were on winning side, and would get reparations if Tsar/Temporary Government could hold . Obviously they didn't.

And some of those losses were taken back later anyway.

And as I said, late arrival in WW2 and claims to be the primary victor, like the US

We offered to join much earlier, but got blocked by Poles.

[Slant]

Oh I couldnt agree more, I drive through Germany 1 or 2 times a year, it's a blessing. Thoose roadworks tho :-|

You'd think they'd finish at some point, right? I thought that in the 90s. I think this will be a perpetual state. The price we pay for superior surfaces.

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I'm not talking about how I want Europe to go on a conquest somewhere. what I'm saying is that we need to relearn that not everyone has had the privilege of growing up in an environment where the though of military conflict is so abhorred that we can't even fathom the possibility of someone else being absolutely prepared to use military force to get what they want. We value human life(which is a good thing) so much that many are blind to the fact that not everyone else shares the same way of thinking.

We're turning around now. It's helpful that Trump motivated us. But we'll see how this develops.

[Crispin]

That was result of peace deal by Bolsheviks who wanted to rush it.

We were on winning side, and would get reparations if Tsar/Temporary Government could hold . Obviously they didn't.

And some of those losses were taken back later anyway.

We offered to join much earlier, but got blocked by Poles.

Excuses excuses. Your “Russia stronk!1” spin, does not change facts. Ww1 forfeit, ww2 late arrival and claims to be the victor. Luckily the brits didnt strike a deal with the germans years before, throwing you at the lions.

[Shalcker]

Excuses excuses. Your “Russia stronk!1” spin, does not change facts. Ww1 forfeit, ww2 late arrival and claims to be the victor.

Who exactly was "early arrival" there then? Maybe Poland who joined Germany in getting themselves pieces off Czechoslovakia?

Edit: I think it is simple. All "early arrivals" in WW2 - Czechoslovakia, Poland, France and so on - got attacked by Germans and lost. USSR were first ones who got attacked by Germans and won (Brits got their stalemate until USSR win was all but assured).

Luckily the brits didnt strike a deal with the germans years before, throwing you at the lions.

Brits did strike the deal with Germans - did you forget "peace in our time" already?

It's just that Germans weren't quite interested in keeping their promises.
And then Brits and French did throw Poland to lions, despite being allied with them - also not quite reliable bunch.

[Slant]

It's just that Germans weren't quite interested in keeping their promises.

Neither were the Russians, to be honest.

[Shalcker]

Neither were the Russians, to be honest.

Well, offers for alliance against Hitler and to get troops through to help defend Czechoslovakia were genuine as far as i'm aware.

[Noradin]

Well, offers for alliance against Hitler and to get troops through to help defend Czechoslovakia were genuine as far as i'm aware.

More like "offers to become vassals of Russia instead of Germany".

[Shalcker]

More like "offers to become vassals of Russia instead of Germany".

We had military assistance treaty with Czechoslovakia that we intended to honour (unlike British and French with Poland).

Poles didn't want to risk even passing through for Soviet troops; and as we have seen had their own plans for land-grab there as well.

[Natylyaz]

We had military assistance treaty with Czechoslovakia that we intended to honour (unlike British and French with Poland).

Poles didn't want to risk even passing through for Soviet troops; and as we have seen had their own plans for land-grab there as well.

The Poles acted disgustingly by siding with Germany to partition Czechoslovakia, but they were right to fear Russia, because they tried to invade Poland in 1920 (please don't try to excuse this as helping Ukraine being invaded by the Poles, it was a huge mess at the time, the Red Army had no business so far west), and because they did invade in 1939 alongside Germany.

[Noradin]

We had military assistance treaty with Czechoslovakia that we intended to honour (unlike British and French with Poland).

Poles didn't want to risk even passing through for Soviet troops; and as we have seen had their own plans for land-grab there as well.

Russia intended to act on it.
We have seen how that turned out down the line.

[Mayhem]

Russia intended to act on it.
We have seen how that turned out down the line.

I like that he wrote "had their own plans for land-grab there as well" ..as well.. so like the soviets?

[Shalcker]

I like that he wrote "had their own plans for land-grab there as well" ..as well.. so like the soviets?

Not sure which one are you talking about (there were plenty at that point), but most likely Polish one was predicated on British and French not honouring their treaty with Poland when Germans attacked.

Once it was obvious no help was coming for Poland and their defeat by Germans is assured - two weeks after invasion - USSR moved to secure buffer space.

Alternative was giving entire Poland to Germans.

[Natylyaz]

Not sure which one are you talking about (there were plenty at that point), but most likely Polish one was predicated on British and French not honouring their treaty with Poland when Germans attacked.

Once it was obvious no help was coming for Poland and their defeat by Germans is assured - two weeks after invasion - USSR moved to secure buffer space.

Alternative was giving entire Poland to Germans.

So this has nothing to do with the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact? This was only to secure a buffer space?