Favorite Shadow Playstyle

[Icathian]

I miss having shadow ravens.

Seriously, that pisses me off a lot. Why the hell did they removed the ravens, along with so many gorgeous cosmetic glyphs.

If the orb system is gone, they could simply mod it so more insanity= more ravens until they cap at 3.

Classes feel so empty right now compared to what we had before.

[kail]

I have to agree with all of the MoP/WoD loving Shadow Priests here.

The Devouring Plague playstyle - though it had its flaws - was the best in my opinion. Clarity of Power was enjoyable as well, I'd rank it #2.

Shame they gave the playstyle to affliction locks (in a worse edition IMO). Dumping big DPs was very satisfying over stacking UAs.

[Craaazyyy]

Cata was the best, MoP felt too much like a circle, build orbs, spend orbs, it was still better than anything after it tho, especially considering the fact that in WoD they removed dot snapshotting and a lot of other stuff from the class itself

in Cata it felt like your dots were super powerful overall but at the same time your burst with spike/mb was really good for switching targets, while in mop you really never really used mind spike outside of a proc

also in MoP i didnt like how you needed orbs for both DP and Psychic horror

[Jedimindtrx]

I would like to focus on feedback for core rotational gameplay. I did not consider utility in this (not that it isn't important, it's extremely important) it's just something i want to discuss separately from core rotational gameplay in another thread.

I left out Vanilla and TBC not because i don't think people enjoyed them (i definitely like the idea of a "support" dps with the TBC mana battery style), but because i do not see a world where those playstyles have a realistic chance of returning.

As i said in the original, i left off the mana battery playstyle not because i don't think it was really great, but because it requires changes to more than just priest; would require a complete change to how mana, healers, and encounters are designed.

After reading most of the thread, it seems like you're striking conversation with JUST the core rotation with ZERO-minimal regard to the complete spec i.e usefulness, desirability, fun, utility as well as ZERO-minimal regard to talents, and IF it would work in today's game which is a bit different than "What is your favorite playstyle and why? (instead how does it translate into today's game)?" You can change the tile to "What is your favorite Shadow Rotation?"

Wordplay aside, Mana battery was not a playstyle, it was a unique passive that the spec brought. The gameplay was the VT, SWP, MB, MF, SWD. You could bring that unique spec passive back in addition to current live's gameplay. The game wouldn't need to balance around it, the players do. Usually it's the healer party the SP was in that would receive the mana/leech back then, and the recovery was very small.

You just need to think about scenarios in today's game: solo play, raid, m+, PVP.
Solo play: not noticeable with insanity today, at most mana recovery will net you an extra PWS/SM if you're soloing a Rare perhaps.
Raids: Mana/leech is limited to the party the SP is in, maybe have the VE on use boost it's effect for entire raid. This is essentially a weak but useful passive, the healing/mana received would never be more than tank's even though I believe it should. This CD is no different than a Hymn of Hope or Innervate. I forgot the Dmg conversion in to mana/leech but let's say it's 1% or less than <1% of damage dealt, it would still be useful but not game breaking.
M+: Mana battery for healers in not an issue since healers drink whenever possible and even with tyrannical healers don't go oom, but hey what if choosing a SP allowed the group to continue on good pace since healer would maybe drink less and use mana less due to the leech.
It's something to add into the spellbook that would possibly make us desirable over the DH, rogue, mage. LOL. It won't BUT you see my point? Blizz wouldn't have to redesign anything if the passive is brought back. It's crazy the pure DPSers have the best utility as well. They would only need to nerf the recovery if passive Vampiric Embrace was out of hand/OP.
PVP: I mean PVP we're in a decent state, the dmg redux is more of an issue than leech/mana recovery would ever be.

Again I stated before I'd vote for Wrath because it was a complete priest, but JUST the rotation... hmmmm... I guess I'm defaulted to Cata?? I really don't even recall Cata.
Again, I feel like you're asking for a conversation which is our favorite versus which would be viable in today's game.

In that sense, Nighthold 4p Voidform would fit well in today's game. Legion VF was 3 phases, OP EN S2M, NH Voidform, then 41% haste cap/1 min cycles.

NH Voidform had 30s cycles very similar to BFA VF, except once in VF you had 4 charges of VB for X secs, also VB refreshed DoTs to full. VB machine gun allowed for movement during the VB spam. If that was still a thing today, I can see the Az Trait, Whispers of the Damned be utilized to greater effect, as well as Dark Ascension mixed with 3X Chorus of Insanity. Imagine 60% crit while machine gunning VBs. Otherwise VB should have a charge system along with it's short CD. That way there is no overlap in CDs with MB/SWV + VB and if there was you can always choose VB. This of course would lessen the Mindflays, but in VF, it should be a point to use voidspells. So NH VF would be best complimented into today's live VF. This version, though not my favorite at all would play well in today's BFA version while keeping the same talents. I can see this combo: VF, VB machine gun, Dark Ascension, VB machine gun.

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Nostalgia goggles aside, I feel the SP can still get better by leaning heavily towards the "classical" SP because I truly feel like it was a complete priest.
Rotation wise, I feel the current SP can be better by ridding of this metamorphosis mechanic. If you want to keep VF, make VF like Incarnation.

Keeping it simple, this is what I want: A "boring" builder/spender. (It wouldn't be boring)
Major CD: Dark Apotheosis/Dark ArchAngel
Resource builders: MB, VT, SWP, SWD | Mflay, Msear
Resource spenders: DP (1 target only), Void Eruption.

With this, we have a LUST opener, execute, on demand +dmg for ST/AOE. Don't even have to change current talents, just retooltip. Well rename STM to Voidform.
We would have all the tools for all DPS situations. ST, cleave, AOE, small mob AOE.
Our utility, even with VE passive, MANY would still consider SP to have no utility.

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- - - Updated - - -

Seriously, that pisses me off a lot. Why the hell did they removed the ravens, along with so many gorgeous cosmetic glyphs.

If the orb system is gone, they could simply mod it so more insanity= more ravens until they cap at 3.

Classes feel so empty right now compared to what we had before.

I agree bring back cosmo glyphs!!!

TBH, if a glyph of Dark Apotheosis/Dark Arch Angel replaced the VF look, my eyes and mind would be deceived to love VF.
Similarly to like those movies where the old hag witch had an immortal gorgeous beauty spell to disguise themselves, I'd fall for it.

Glyph of Shadow Orbs: Every 20 insanity, a shadow orb is summoned. Narutoformsenpai.

Remember early in Legion, VF would summon an Orb/Sphere of Insanity that would pewpew Shadowbolts. I WANT that visual back.
Glyph of Sphere Orbs (rename): Your Apparitions are replaced with a an orb that pewpews Shadowbolts.

Glyph of Shadowfriends: Your apparitions are now shadowfriends. (fiends ofc) or tentacles?

Glyph of Voidlord: Your Shadowfiend is now a Void lord: Nhal'atoth. <--- do it.

[Gonder]

I actually really enjoyed the Clarity of Power style of Shadow, it felt so, so nice to play out in the world, and pretty anywhere in general. I remember liking MoP's Shadow as well, though that was mostly during the time when I was still warming up to my priest and my memories aren't quite as clear.

As for the modern Shadow, I think the theme is by far the best from a lore standpoint, but I find the gameplay to be utterly abysmal. It is such a chore for me to play, and I wouldn't ever dream of using it over Discipline or Holy out in the world.

[Deleted]

Cata version was the best in my opinion, adding the dragon soul Tier rotation style was the best times for me as SP by far

This 1000%.

I loved how i could compete with mages, locks and rogues (with legendaries) while I didn't have it.

I completely agree with you guys. I remember swapping to my LFR-geared priest so we could solo tank madness progression and ended up topping the damage meter. The stupid damage aside, it was such an engaging and nice flowing rotation and I loved it for that alone.

[ThrashMetalFtw]

I completely agree with you guys. I remember swapping to my LFR-geared priest so we could solo tank madness progression and ended up topping the damage meter. The stupid damage aside, it was such an engaging and nice flowing rotation and I loved it for that alone.

We couldn't really compete with the FotM classes in Dragon Soul though. Shadow was 1# Caster Dps in both t11 and t12, but got outscaled quite badly by Arms Warrs, Fire Mages, and Legendary Rogues going into DS, while Hunters got buffed through the roof 2nd week of progression and were untouchable after that.

We were ofc still the best multidotters in the game, and would win any fight where that was possible for an extended period of time, but singletarget? No chance, assuming you were competing with somewhat equally skilled players. Cata will forever be remembered as the expansion where Shadow was the big brother, and Affliction (or Warlocks in general) was the little brother.

[kaelix1]

We couldn't really compete with the FotM classes in Dragon Soul though. Shadow was 1# Caster Dps in both t11 and t12, but got outscaled quite badly by Arms Warrs, Fire Mages, and Legendary Rogues going into DS, while Hunters got buffed through the roof 2nd week of progression and were untouchable after that.

We were ofc still the best multidotters in the game, and would win any fight where that was possible for an extended period of time, but singletarget? No chance, assuming you were competing with somewhat equally skilled players. Cata will forever be remembered as the expansion where Shadow was the big brother, and Affliction (or Warlocks in general) was the little brother.

hmm, strange, i few days ago i was checking my dps on our dragon soul kills, and i was top dps on all of them, with lego and DI shadow priest was insane, sure as well we could compete against rest, at that time i was in a guild that had above average players, some of them got offer from method

[ThrashMetalFtw]

hmm, strange, i few days ago i was checking my dps on our dragon soul kills, and i was top dps on all of them, with lego and DI shadow priest was insane, sure as well we could compete against rest, at that time i was in a guild that had above average players, some of them got offer from method

I don't believe any of that for a second.

I was in a mediocre guild at that point (started raiding after progress was over, so like world 5k at that point, but we were around world 500 for most of MoP), had 99% percentile parses (WoL equivalent) on every boss, including multiple top10 ranks. I was in the opposide siuation of what you're describing, where I was the best player in our raid, and I still never managed to beat our Warr or Rogues, and regularly lost to our Mages and Hunters on Ultraxion. I had been completely annihilating the majority of the same players in t11 and t12, when Shadow was actually the best spec in the game.

Right before the MoP prepatch, the top SP parses on Ultraxion was more than 5k behind the top Rogue/Mage/Warr parses in the world, with Shadow rank 1 being 55k and all the top specs above 60k. I stopped checking logs the last month before the prepatch hit, but I highly doubt somebody suddenly managed to increase the Shadow rank 1 up to 60k+, since the one at 55k was already a kill with insane RNG, and everybody had been wearing BiS gear for ages.

[Alexieel]

I have played Shadow in Vanilla (PvP&PvE, MC, ZG, BWL&AQ20), TBC (PvE from T4 through T6 content, PvP only S3+S4), WotLK I only played Shadow during Naxx and really late ICC, Disc for the most part of WotLK, PvP always shadow, though.

Skipped Cata, played MoP only from ToT upwards (again, Disc, not Shadow in PvE), skipped most of WoD, played Legion during S2M opening and casual (only normal raids) in antorus.

So I missed the "glorious" time of Shadow during Cata

I loved TBC, unique role of a mana battery, and the healer in my raid could really tell the difference between a good and a bad shadow, was always nice to hear a few good words as feedback

I also liked MoP and WotLK, but maybe I am a bit biased, because in WotLK shadow was rarely seen in 2v2, and I was one of the only 3 Shadows I saw above 2.1k, and the only one with a Frostmage as partner, the other two were Shadow/druid *nostalgia*...

I wish I could play the "peak point" of Shadow during cata, it sounds like it was a blast to play. Also would like to test WoD design again, with the different styles (but please with a viable 3. option )

[Grumpy Old Man]

I miss having shadow ravens.

Well we can still have them, albeit as a cosmetic effect only.

https://www.wowhead.com/item=136928

[kaelix1]

I don't believe any of that for a second.

Your choice bud, this is our first kill on Ultraxion https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHOAgeBvYxM, I was the SP Synners, that was not my best, very very bad play with fight mechanic, and I was in the soak team which mess my dps a little, that guild was quite above your 5k average (we finish DS in top 150, i think it was 120 something), this was during progress fight, so, i stand my ground, while not the best, SP was very competitive in DS, my dps increase quite a lot once i got BiS DS gear,and the dps rank stay the same + I never got the buff trinket from Rag during progress

[Kilee25]

Shadow priests did get outscaled very quickly in the last instance in Cata, and many were benched in the last two fights because their dps cooldown didn’t come off cooldown fast enough to sync up with the other classes big burst abilities (it was like 30 seconds longer than everyone else’s, which made a difficult, stressful fight even longer and more difficult.). If your raid was willing to wait on your cooldown so that you could help with spine, you did well and could contribute just as well. I typically used my cooldown on every other spine due to the fact that my cooldown wasn’t available yet. You also had to spend an inordinate amount of time mindlaying in order to get your shadowfiend off cooldown in time, which restricted your ability to purely multidot, and dampened your top damage slightly. We were basically inefficient for the last two fights, but could fill in if the raid was willing to work around our abilities.

[Zyky]

Wrath Shadow was my favorite.

[ThrashMetalFtw]

Your choice bud, this is our first kill on Ultraxion https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHOAgeBvYxM, I was the SP Synners, that was not my best, very very bad play with fight mechanic, and I was in the soak team which mess my dps a little, that guild was quite above your 5k average (we finish DS in top 150, i think it was 120 something), this was during progress fight, so, i stand my ground, while not the best, SP was very competitive in DS, my dps increase quite a lot once i got BiS DS gear,and the dps rank stay the same + I never got the buff trinket from Rag during progress

SP was good during progress, I already agreed on this (because we were fresh from FL where Shadow was top caster). However, we got outscaled very hard once ppl got actual t13 gear. Just like Shadow was the best caster in Nighthold during progress, but the worst once the guild got geared.

The Rogues were already above you, and they would have scaled much better with gear than you. Same with your Warrs. Your Mages either had a bad try on the kill, were undereared or were bad players. Assuming this was week 1 of progress, your Hunters would have obliterated you the next week after the extreme buffs SV got during 2nd week of HC progress. If this buff was already in place, your Hunters were bad. Your Locks were playing Aff or Destro, or didn't know how to play Demo properly.

If the same Dps rankings that you showed in your vid continued as your raid got geared, there is a big (almost certain) possibiliy that you were simply the best player in your guild. World rank 150 is still faaaaaaaaaar away from any guild where the members are all at the same skill lvl. You could have had multiple players that were good enough to go for world first, while somebody else in there might have been dragging you down, and would be better suited in a world 1k guild.

Go look at WoL, the top parses from back then are still recorded. It seems like a few are missing, but the general ranking of specs is exactly how I remember them: Fire, Demo, Arms, Combat are the by far best specs with records arond 61-63k, SV Hunters at 59k. Shadow has 1 single parse at 56k, while the majority of our BEST parses are around 52-54k. I do remember getting 52k as my best ever Ultraxion parse back then fairly late into the patch, and this was a rank 5 in the world at the time. We were middle of the pack together with Elemental Shamans, DKs and Rets. Only Enhc Shamans, Ferals and the "worst specs from the best classes" were worse than us.

Again, this was only a discussion about single target. I'm fully aware that Shadow was good in general, and still the undisputed 1# on fights where we could multidot (suck it Warlocks), which was like half of the raid. Despite that, your idea that our ST was good, is still just flat out wrong.

[kaelix1]

SP was good during progress, I already agreed on this (because we were fresh from FL where Shadow was top caster). However, we got outscaled very hard once ppl got actual t13 gear. Just like Shadow was the best caster in Nighthold during progress, but the worst once the gioød got geared.

The Rogues were already above you, and they would have scaled much better with gear than you. Same with your Warrs. Your Mages either had a bad try on the kill, were undereared or were bad playrers. Assuming this was week 1 of progress, your Hunters would have obliterated you the next week after the extreme buffs SV got during 2nd week of HC progress. If this buff was already in place, your Hunters were bad. Your Locks were playing Aff or Destro, or didn't know how to play Demo properly.

If the same Dps rankings that you showed in your vid continued as your raid got geared, there is a big (almost certain) possibiliy that you were simply the best player in your guild. World rank 150 is still faaaaaaaaaar away from any guild where the members are all at the same skill lvl. You could have had multiple players that were good enough to go for world first, while somebody else in there might have been dragging you down, and would be better suited in a world 1k guild.

Go look at WoL, the top parses from back then are still recorded. It seems like a few are missing, but the general ranking of specs is exactly how I remember them: Fire, Demo, Arms, Combat are the by far best specs with records arond 61-63k, SV Hunters at 59k. Shadow has 1 single parse at 56k, while the majority of our BEST parses are around 52-54k. I do remember getting 52k as my best ever Ultraxion parse back then fairly late into the patch, and this was a rank 5 in the world at the time. We were middle of the pack together with Elemental Shamans, DKs and Rets. Only Enhc, Ferals and the "worst specs from the best classes" were worse than us.

Again, this was only a discussion about single target. I'm fully aware that Shadow was good in general, and still the undisputed 1# on fights where we could multidot (suck it Warlocks), which was like half of the raid. Despite that, your idea that our ST was good, is still just flat out wrong.

Cant disagree, all my memories on that was on our progress, and i remember i did pretty good, if i remember corectly at that point i had some combo of lfr tier from DS

[Yamuri]

Well we can still have them, albeit as a cosmetic effect only.

https://www.wowhead.com/item=136928

Didn't know the toy existed. Too bad it's a just an effect but that's all I need.

[Foolicious]

SP was good during progress, I already agreed on this (because we were fresh from FL where Shadow was top caster). However, we got outscaled very hard once ppl got actual t13 gear. Just like Shadow was the best caster in Nighthold during progress, but the worst once the guild got geared.

To be fair thats basically shadow in a nutshell. Bfa is the exception of this rule not the norm.
I remember back in wod i basically carried my raid on bosses like xhul'horac, mannoroth, or beastmaster, but everytime our hunters got a new weapon or our mages had their ring upgraded (f that ring-.-) i dwindled back in the middle. Alluriel or mistress are more recent examples.

We always had that kinda niche to push damage when adds lived longer or bosses lived longer so we could spend more time in our execute window.
We where always crippled by using bloodlust at pull with only some exceptions but our execute damage kinda made up for it.

I personally was ok with it. The fun i had while playing made up for that. And little moments like passing the most bursties classes at the end of a fight felt validating.
I know not everyone likes that. Most players are satisfied when they see their spec in the top 3 in simcraft, but thats not what it should be about.

But i think they will never adress this underlying problem without making shadow into a fourth mage spec. They tried several times and their latest try gave us this abomination my priest has become :/

[Ophenia]

SP was good during progress, I already agreed on this (because we were fresh from FL where Shadow was top caster). However, we got outscaled very hard once ppl got actual t13 gear. Just like Shadow was the best caster in Nighthold during progress, but the worst once the guild got geared.

Somehow you make it sound like a problem, when your spec is good on progress but sucks numerically on farm.

"Oh no, my spec is relevant only when the fights are hard and I cannot rank top#1 after the 27th time we kill the boss !!! Fck Blizzard"

[Chillside]

SP was good during progress, I already agreed on this (because we were fresh from FL where Shadow was top caster). However, we got outscaled very hard once ppl got actual t13 gear.

As a Tarecgosa's owner I strongly disagree with you about getting outscaled on t13 gear, I can proudly state that once i got full hc gear with hc cunning and insignia... there was no competiton..